Hunting?

[80sU2isBest]

rougerum,
Thanks for your insight, as someone who lives in an area most affected by deer over-pouplation. I suppose I can understand it in that sense. But I still don't understand people who want to hunt as a sport (and I'm a big gun rights' advocate).

 

[missmacphisto]

Originally posted by Johnny Swallow:
You forgive your ancestors? I guess it is no longer PC to be a caveman.

Humans are part of the food chain, we are part of this planet, we didn't invade the natural world.

[This message has been edited by Johnny Swallow (edited 10-30-2001).]

Humans are freaks of nature.

 

[missmacphisto]

Originally posted by U2Bama:

[This message has been edited by U2Bama (edited 10-30-2001).]

Good Lord, Bama! The photos depict hamburgers as being human like! Does this mean MacDonalds patrons are cannibals?! Scary! I never even knew...

 

[melon]

Originally posted by kobayashi:
Melon, I have read a lot of your posts over the last couple of months and I can now honestly say: you seem to know everything! i'm not kidding, from the economy to the availability of exotic meats. it's incredible.

As much as I quite often bitch about Michigan on this forum, it is, quite honestly, a mesh of everything that America is within a surprisingly small amount of space. It's modern (Detroit), yet it is rustic (Upper Peninsula). It goes into a deep freeze in winter and burns you in the summer. I grew up in Southeast Michigan, where there is a sizeable amount of Southerners actually--but is still predominantly Catholic in nature. We have both a great infrastructure, while also being great examples of government neglect. Heck, even my house is a mesh of everything. Lake Erie nearby, a city one can see on the horizon, an interstate within view, railroads surrounding you, but, yet, still rural, as I'm surrounded by farm fields.

So, honestly, if it is true that people are a product of their environment, then it's no wonder that I have a fairly diverse base of knowledge from both my educational background, but also from life experience in itself. As much as I've bitched about Michigan, I've learned quite a bit from it.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

 

[U2Bama]

Don't trust MissMacPh; she is the Hamburglar in disguise.

 

[missmacphisto]

Oh God, No! They even found me HERE! Dammit!
* Pulls cape over herself and runs*

------------------
Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

 

[U2Bama]

MissMacPh:

Guess what I had for dinner last night?

A #14 Extra Value Meal at McDOnald's! That's a DOUBLE cheeseburger, medium fries, and medium Coke. Plus, my wife didn't want all of her fries, so I ate some of hers too. The fries were just right: VERY hot and just the right amount of salt. Yummy.

~U2Alabama

 

[pub crawler]

I love fishing. Early this month I spent 4 days backpacking in the High Sierras. Ate Trout for dinner. Loved the whole experience. I went with a friend who is heavy into fly fishing. I was using lures and a bubble fly setup, which is okay, but I've got to learn to fly fish (there's a lot to it!).

Point is, I can't say I'm totally against killing animals, because I do it myself.

Hunting for sport? I don't have particularly strong feelings about it either way. Do that many people really kill deer and such just for sport, and let the meat go to waste?

 

[Johnny Swallow]

You forgive your ancestors? I guess it is no longer PC to be a caveman.

Humans are part of the food chain, we are part of this planet, we didn't invade the natural world.

[This message has been edited by Johnny Swallow (edited 10-30-2001).]

 

[U2Bama]

Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:
McDonalds often shows pretty pictures of happy smiling hamburgers growing like plants in pretty fields, on stalks of grass and what not. Good God.

[This message has been edited by U2Bama (edited 10-30-2001).]

 

[Spiral_Staircase]

1. It's amusing to see 80's and melon's surprising stances on this issue. Looks like they got their left and right mixed up.

Actually, it's just nice to see that they don't feel stuck to the party-line. Always a good thing.

2. As others have pointed out, hunting is necessary to control the population of deer and other animals, so I'm glad there are people who do it. I don't think I could. If you think it's cruel to shoot them, take a look at a deer when it's starving to death in the middle of winter because of over-population.

3. Matthew Page grew up in rural Maine? Where? I lived in Skowhegan when I was a kid and I have relatives in Aroostook County. I used to visit my great-grandfather at his house on the Allagash, but haven't been back there in 10 years.

 

[missmacphisto]

Well, many of them decapitate it and hang the bloody head on their walls, take photos of themselves with the corpse, skin in and use the skin to"decorate" their gorey homes, etc. Its just pointless and sickening to kill for the sheer fun of it.
Their was this guy on some court room show recently, who murdered this older couples beloved golden retrievers. He said he killed them because he saw them going after ducks and he was "Concerned about the wildlife". And yet, he blew it when he told the judge he had a "High powered rifle" that he used to go huntin with the judge said something like "You're so concerned about the wildlife yet you go out and kill them yourself???" He got all wide eyed and stammered and then said he only did it to feed his family, then tried to drag his children into the whole thing and hide behind them as a defense. This isnt 1492 though, and the judge didnt buy it.

 

[missmacphisto]

Originally posted by U2Bama:
MissMacPh:

Guess what I had for dinner last night?

A #14 Extra Value Meal at McDOnald's! That's a DOUBLE cheeseburger, medium fries, and medium Coke. Plus, my wife didn't want all of her fries, so I ate some of hers too. The fries were just right: VERY hot and just the right amount of salt. Yummy.

~U2Alabama

*Gets out her whip and thrashes Bama for eating the cheeseburger*

Hamburglar will not be pleased. You should have given it to her - er... him,that is....
Oh, and technically, French fries ARE vegetables. So is ketchup and mustard.

------------------
Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

[This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 10-31-2001).]

 

[rougerum]

80s, It is honestly not your place to even understand hunting, I don't understand the appeal of soccer at all but that doesn't make playing it wrong and since people have a right to carry a gun and hunt then let them do it as to they break no laws.

~rougerum

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by rougerum:
80s, It is honestly not your place to even understand hunting, I don't understand the appeal of soccer at all but that doesn't make playing it wrong and since people have a right to carry a gun and hunt then let them do it as to they break no laws.
~rougerum

That's a crummy answer. I can't stop anyone from hunting, so why did you say "let them do it"? I'm not trying to stop them, nor am I condemning hunters. All I wanted to know was why people enjoy hunting, and if it is right to hunt when it's not necessary for food? Do people enjoying hunting because they like to get out with their buds into the woods? If so, why not just go camping? Are there people who enjoy "the kill"?

 

[Matthew_Page2000]

Spiral_Staircase,

Yup. I'm from Maine all right. More specifically I was born in Dover-Foxcroft and grew up in Dexter. I moved to Seattle after college though.

It's always nice to meet a U2 fan with a connection to Maine because I sure don't remember many of them when I grew up there. I remember playing the Joshua Tree my senior year in high school and no one knowing who it was. Lots of "I think I've heard that with or without you song" kind of comments.
My classmates thought it was weird music. It was just a couple of weeks before the release of Achtung Baby. You should have seen the looks I got when I started playing Achtung Baby and Nevermind in front of my friends. Their idea of alternative music was Ozzie and Metallica.

MAP

 

[Matthew_Page2000]

80's,

Perhaps my "genial contempt" comment was a bit too much. For what it's worth my mother hates hunting although she does eat some meat and one of my closest friends is a vegan. (Apparently drinking milk and eating cheese is nearly as bad as killing an animal. Cow slavery at its worst.)

It is literally impossible to explain the way I feel when I go hunting. It's a unique experience and is an entirely different way of experiencing the world, the outdoors and ones place in it. That's a woefully inadequate way of describing my feelings but anyone who laughs at or dismisses what I am saying without having experienced a hunting culture or taken part in a hunt is responding out of ignorance. I deer hunted every fall from the age of ten to my 24th birthday but I only shot one deer. (I passed up the oppurtunity to shoot several other deer for a variety of reasons including not wanting to kill an animal on a particular day.)
If a hunters enjoyment comes from killing animals alone why wasn't I having a miserable time all those years?

MAP

[This message has been edited by Matthew_Page2000 (edited 10-31-2001).]

 

[U2Bama]

To back up a bit and give y'all my serious position on this whole debate, I agree with Melon.

I do not hunt, have never hunted (my family never even owned guns), and I don't plan to hunt, but I support the right to and believe in the modern necessity to hunt. It IS something of a sport in the type of skill and marksmanship it requires, but it is not a typical sport in that it is not usually competitive (although in Dove Shoots and such it IS competitive).

There is a 45,000 acre Wildlife Management Area below my neighborhood and it is full of deer and turkey. Anyone who says that this area has deer overpopulation due to "encroaching development" is wrong because the wilderness far outweighs the developed areas. The "management" concept involves regulated hunting in the area, and that doesn't even include the private clubs that are NOT within the W.M.A. We rarely see dead deer carcasses on the road here, but we DO see them in areas where hunting is prohibited.

~U2Alabama

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by Matthew_Page2000:
If a hunters enjoyment comes from killing animals alone why wasn't I having a miserable time all those years?

[This message has been edited by Matthew_Page2000 (edited 10-31-2001).]

I'm not saying a hunter's enjoyment comes from killing alone. What I'm trying to figure out is why people enjoy it. The "communing with nature" part I can understand. I can even understand the joy of knowing that you've tracked something down. I used to work patrol in a police dapartment, and chasing down crooks on foot and in a vehicle did have a certain adrenalin rush to it. And yet, if that's what people enjoy about it, why go the extra step and kill the animal? Isn't it enough for someone to know that he had the skills to get the animal if he wanted?

 

[missmacphisto]

There is somehting new where you can shoot the animal with a paintball gun or something like that. I wouldnt approve of that either, but it is certainly prefereable to murder. Also, you can always shoot them with a camera. Tons of people enjoy nature and camping and geting away from it all, being with your friends, etc. I love it too, i'd take walks through the woods all the time if there were any near here.
This is why hunters arguments that it isnt all about the killing doesnt make sense. Perhaps it isnt just the killing but the idea that you could kill if you wanted to that excites them so much.

If thats it, fine, bring along your little weapon, just dont use it.

[This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 10-31-2001).]

 

[U2Bama]

Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:
There is somehting new where you can shoot the animal with a paintball gun or something like that. I wouldnt approve of that either, but it is certainly prefereable to murder.

MissMacPh:

Shoot THIS.
http://www.fieler.com/terror/

 

[missmacphisto]

Good lord! Thats as good as the fry Osama site! Fun Fun Fun!

Well i guess i'll do this instead of mugging trick or treaters...not many of them out tonight anyways. Bummer.

------------------
Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

 

[Punch Drunk Love]

80s, hunting can be looked as a sport as any other sport. people always trying to do better than the other but this is in how many points the buck has that they kill, the more the better. so their is aspects of sport involved in this as any other sport and shooting a gun is not something anyone can do, it does require skill and practice and like fishing, hunting requires a lot of patience. Hunters stay in one spot waiting for the deer to come and then to get into a position where the deer can be shot from and killed. Also hunting is a get together of sorts for friends.

~rougerum

 

[BabyGrace]

I can see the necessity of hunting for some people but I will NEVER agree with it.
something about the nature of hunting does not sit well with me, I really can't take it. it's one thing humanely slaughtering animals (which doesn't happen either) for food but there's just something so cold-blooded about actual hunting. it's strange I don't have as much of a problem with it when it's other animals that are doing the hunting, possibly because they do not have the thought processes we as humans do but..

I should really be a vegetarian...me is a major hypocrite

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but for the grace of love I'd will the meaning of heaven from above...

 

[BabyGrace]

Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:
Well, many of them decapitate it and hang the bloody head on their walls, take photos of themselves with the corpse, skin in and use the skin to"decorate" their gorey homes, etc. Its just pointless and sickening to kill for the sheer fun of it.
Their was this guy on some court room show recently, who murdered this older couples beloved golden retrievers. He said he killed them because he saw them going after ducks and he was "Concerned about the wildlife". And yet, he blew it when he told the judge he had a "High powered rifle" that he used to go huntin with the judge said something like "You're so concerned about the wildlife yet you go out and kill them yourself???" He got all wide eyed and stammered and then said he only did it to feed his family, then tried to drag his children into the whole thing and hide behind them as a defense. This isnt 1492 though, and the judge didnt buy it.

what a bastard.

at my old house my dog used to escape and bring back the entrails from gutted deer, and then the legs, one by one.
so yes, it does happen, there is a lot that goes to waste..
ugh it was so disgusting


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but for the grace of love I'd will the meaning of heaven from above...

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by BabyGrace:
I should really be a vegetarian...me is a major hypocrite

Just because you don't agree with unncessary hunting and yet still eat meat doesn't make you a hypocrite. You're not saying it's wrong to eat meat. You just don't understand why people go hunting when there's already meat they can buy.