Hundreds of Middle Easterns Jailed for trying to comply - Page 2

BVS · 12-20-2002, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Reread what I initially said. If the INS excuse was *sincere,* then it was warranted

Oh I realize what you were saying. And let's say it is "sincere", we'll give them the benefit of doubt. Do you still think this is how to go about it. If we're going to really enforce our laws, let's do it right and execute a plan that spans across the board and doesn't target a small minority of illegl immigrants.

nbcrusader · 12-20-2002, 11:06 AM

Any effort to enforce immigration laws are typically criticized as racist.

BAW · 12-20-2002, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nbcrusader
Any effort to enforce immigration laws are typically criticized as racist.

True.

And no matter what is being done, someone will have a problem with it. Do we keep things as they are, where the INS renews student visas for some of the 9/11 hijackers after the fact...or do we take action to at least try and take control of who comes and goes into to this country?

I don't completly agree with the fact that this is only being done to Middle-Eastern males but something has to be done.

diamond · 12-20-2002, 01:34 PM

I agree w BAW-
must we always go to the race card?

Please.

Who the f*ck knows really whats going on..

perhaps a few of these ppl in the round up may know somebody's sister's cousin's boyfriend that has a cache of dirty nukes next to a bag of used dildos in his garage

Seriously.
We need to always stop trying to b arm chair quaterbacks 2nd guessing ppl who are trying to keep our country and world safe.

Thank u
Diamond

BVS · 12-20-2002, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Seriously. We need to always stop trying to b arm chair quaterbacks 2nd guessing ppl who are trying to keep our country and world safe.

Yes you're right we should just all sit back in our chairs enjoy the view and watch as our country practices injustice and gets comfortable with it. Because once they know they can get away with this without anyone saying or doing anything the next step will be coming into OUR living rooms. But this is OK because we're not suppose to 2nd guess these actions.

Dreadsox · 12-20-2002, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by doctorwho

You have your terms mixed. What is happening now is a REACTIVE approach (or answer) to the events of Sep. 11th. Had INS been screening like this all along, it would have been a PRO-ACTIVE approach and it *might* have altered the events of Sep. 11th. A reactive approach is waiting until something happens and then doing something (reacting) to it - and this is what is a happening now.

I believe it is pro-active in the sense that,,,,it may stop something else from happening. Semantics at this point.

The sad part is...I seriously doubt any terrorist went and registered.

diamond · 12-20-2002, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nbcrusader
Any effort to enforce immigration laws are typically criticized as racist.

i agree w the attorney.
i also stick by the idea of earlier statement re- dildos and dirty nukes in the garage of somebody's cousin.. (statement/idea)....

u
just
never
know..who might know or say something
or volunteer information to stay in the country....

welcome to- our brave new world..

welcome to the 21st century.

thank u-

DB9

sengira · 12-20-2002, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreadsox

I believe it is pro-active in the sense that,,,,it may stop something else from happening. Semantics at this point.

The sad part is...I seriously doubt any terrorist went and registered.

That is the material point.

So what exactly are you expecting this to achieve?

And as to the question about why race has to come into it - I'm still waiting for the INS to check the immigration status of people from China, or Israel (now there's a can of worms they don't want to open) or the Caribbean.

Does anyone seriously believe that this is not targeted at a specific group, based on common racial and cultural perceptions of that group?

I'm going to take a page from Bono's book (I thought he did a fabulous job of appealing to the basic selfishness of human beings on Oprah) and say: even if you don't give a shit about Middle East nationals being jailed or deported or exploited or treated unfairly - and that is your prerogative - think for a moment about what actions like this might bode for your own civil liberties in the not-too-distant future.

These people did not all just show up yesterday, prompting the INs to go 'Hey, hey, where are you going?' and nab them as they were coming through Customs at the airport. The only reason that action is being taken against them (and note, despite all claims about this not being targeted victimization, it is, to date, ONLY against them) is that it now seems expedient to the American government to do so. If we sit back and say 'Well, I suppose it's for the best . . . these foreigners had it coming to them,' what's to prevent the ball to keep right on a-rollin', until whatever seems expedient is done, regardless of who or how many it affects?

I don't know if that idea makes you feel safer. I know it makes me feel, to use the language of bad spy movies, rather . . . expendable.

**Sicy** · 12-20-2002, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreadsox
The sad part is...I seriously doubt any terrorist went and registered.

This is what had me and my boss going 'wtf?' like a terrorist is really going to go down to the INS and register.

come on.

diamond · 12-20-2002, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sicy

This is what had me and my boss going 'wtf?' like a terrorist is really going to go down to the INS and register. come on.

but somebody could squeal on those that dont..thats the point

Salome · 12-20-2002, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nbcrusader
Any effort to enforce immigration laws are typically criticized as racist.

because quite some things are falsely labelled as racism that doesn't mean that there is no truth in any of the claims

Quote:

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
For one they called on only males who were born in these 20 or so countries.

I don't think any of us are wondering whether Canada, Germany or France were one of those countries

they were targetting people from the Middle East because they are potential terrorist
that is a racist point of view no matter which way you look at it

personally I wouldn't be surprised if at one point actions like this one will lead to more trouble
if you treat a certain group of people as criminals long enough then at one point they are going to act like criminals since they have got nothing to lose anyway

Dreadsox · 12-20-2002, 06:19 PM

Let's see....

We have laws.....for a reason last I knew.
We failed miserably pre-9/11 at enforcing them.
We are enforcing them now........

I would say...this sounds good to me.

And for the people who are having difficulties with this I am sorry....You are not a citizen of this country. We have laws. While in this country you should expect them to be enforced especially since 9/11. If you fail to obey them, suffer the price.

Salome....that is not racist. Racism is the belief that a group is superior to another because of race. We do not claim this. If you want to call it prejudiced, the definition of prejudice included the lines unfounded or without cause. We have cause. Ten years of terror against our country.

Peace

Peace

Hi Bias · 12-20-2002, 06:35 PM

Why some might consider it racist? Prior to Sept. 11, the biggest terrorist attack was Oklahoma City.
The U. S. Government did not round up U. S. veterans, (McViegh and Nichols were/are vets) and detain them for questioning.

Dreadsox · 12-20-2002, 06:51 PM

Well, I know what you are trying to say....

But veterans most likely are citizens. Different set of rules.

As for your point, it is quite wrong....they did go after militia groups....

In April 1997 two years after the bombings as reported on the PBS Program Newshour with Jim Lehrer:

They reported that last year across 22 states 131 anti-government extremists were arrested and prosecuted in 36 cases of crime that included bank robberies, bombings, illegal possession of weapons, and fraud, such as filing illegal leanings on the property of public officials.

So please....do not pretend to say our governement did nothing after Oklahoma City.

bonoman · 12-20-2002, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by diamond

i also stick by the idea of earlier statement re- dildos and dirty nukes in the garage of somebody's cousin.. (statement/idea)....

u
just
never
know..who might know or say something
or volunteer information to stay in the country....

OK so let me get htis straight you think it is allright if a gov'y locks people up for not having papers in order then interogate, or as you say "volunteer info", them and try to make them give info up about someone that knows a guy who knows a guy. Isnt this something that makes you think. They could lock up all Irish people and say we will send you back unless you tell us someone who is in the IRA. If you were to ever go to a middle-east country you would probably learn quickly that everyone knows someone who is into some sort of illegal activity. So should we just loc every foriegner and threaten them with deportation until they give us info!?

If they were to do this with a blanket effect, ie. Mexicans or Asains, then i could see it but this is pure racial profiling. This is about terrorism not immigrantion. Say ti for what its worth. You are targeting people of certain race. I guarentee you there are more Mexians or S.A. that are illegal then middle eastern.

Remember back a few months ago when the Canadian Gov't sent a warning to all M.E. people in Canada to be careful of going to the States? And some of you got all pissed. Well this is a perfect example!!

U2Bama · 12-20-2002, 10:48 PM

Are any of you offended by the investigation and arrest of the terrorist cell now known as "the Buffalo Six"?

Salome · 12-21-2002, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Salome
personally I wouldn't be surprised if at one point actions like this one will lead to more trouble
if you treat a certain group of people as criminals long enough then at one point they are going to act like criminals since they have got nothing to lose anyway

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreadsox
Salome....that is not racist. Racism is the belief that a group is superior to another because of race. We do not claim this. If you want to call it prejudiced, the definition of prejudice included the lines unfounded or without cause. We have cause. Ten years of terror against our country.

ah, is it so

Rono · 12-21-2002, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by U2Bama
Are any of you offended by the investigation and arrest of the terrorist cell now known as "the Buffalo Six"?

No, but the Hitlist of Bush does.

U2Bama · 12-21-2002, 10:23 AM

Would ou please define "the Hiltlist of Bush"? Thank you.

~U2Alabama

Dreadsox · 12-21-2002, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rono

No, but the Hitlist of Bush does.

No disrespect but...What are you talking about?

Peace

12-20-2002, 11:06 AM	#22
nbcrusader Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 22,071 Local Time: 07:18 AM	Any effort to enforce immigration laws are typically criticized as racist. __________________

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12-20-2002, 01:34 PM	#24
diamond ONE love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tempe, Az USA Posts: 12,856 Local Time: 08:18 AM	I agree w BAW- must we always go to the race card? Please. Who the f*ck knows really whats going on.. perhaps a few of these ppl in the round up may know somebody's sister's cousin's boyfriend that has a cache of dirty nukes next to a bag of used dildos in his garage Seriously. We need to always stop trying to b arm chair quaterbacks 2nd guessing ppl who are trying to keep our country and world safe. Thank u Diamond

12-20-2002, 06:19 PM	#32
Dreadsox ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 10,885 Local Time: 10:18 AM	Let's see.... We have laws.....for a reason last I knew. We failed miserably pre-9/11 at enforcing them. We are enforcing them now........ I would say...this sounds good to me. And for the people who are having difficulties with this I am sorry....You are not a citizen of this country. We have laws. While in this country you should expect them to be enforced especially since 9/11. If you fail to obey them, suffer the price. Salome....that is not racist. Racism is the belief that a group is superior to another because of race. We do not claim this. If you want to call it prejudiced, the definition of prejudice included the lines unfounded or without cause. We have cause. Ten years of terror against our country. Peace Peace

12-20-2002, 06:35 PM	#33
Hi Bias The Fly Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest, U S Posts: 49 Local Time: 03:18 PM	Why some might consider it racist? Prior to Sept. 11, the biggest terrorist attack was Oklahoma City. The U. S. Government did not round up U. S. veterans, (McViegh and Nichols were/are vets) and detain them for questioning.

12-20-2002, 06:51 PM	#34
Dreadsox ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 10,885 Local Time: 10:18 AM	Well, I know what you are trying to say.... But veterans most likely are citizens. Different set of rules. As for your point, it is quite wrong....they did go after militia groups.... In April 1997 two years after the bombings as reported on the PBS Program Newshour with Jim Lehrer: They reported that last year across 22 states 131 anti-government extremists were arrested and prosecuted in 36 cases of crime that included bank robberies, bombings, illegal possession of weapons, and fraud, such as filing illegal leanings on the property of public officials. So please....do not pretend to say our governement did nothing after Oklahoma City.

12-20-2002, 10:48 PM	#36
U2Bama Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine Posts: 3,405 Local Time: 10:18 AM	Are any of you offended by the investigation and arrest of the terrorist cell now known as "the Buffalo Six"?

12-21-2002, 10:23 AM	#39
U2Bama Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine Posts: 3,405 Local Time: 10:18 AM	Would ou please define "the Hiltlist of Bush"? Thank you. ~U2Alabama