HRC: common ground on abortion; also, politically brilliant

[Irvine511]

THIS IS NOT ANOTHER ABORTION THREAD!!! I DO NOT WANT TO DISCUSS ABORTION!!! PLEASE READ, THEN I'LL FOLLOW WITH WHAT I THINK IS SO INTERESTING ABOUT IT ....

January 24, 2005
Senator Clinton Speaks of 'Common Ground' on Abortion
By PATRICK D. HEALY

ALBANY, Jan. 24 - Proposing new political language about abortion rights for the Democratic Party, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton said today that friends and foes on the issue should come together on "common ground" to reduce the number of "unwanted pregnancies" and ultimately abortions, which she called a "sad, even tragic choice to many, many women."

Mrs. Clinton, in a speech to about 1,000 abortion rights supporters at the state Capitol, firmly restated her support for the Supreme Court ruling that legalized abortion nationwide, Roe v. Wade. But then she quickly shifted gears, offering warm words to opponents of abortion - particularly members of religious groups - asserting that there was "common ground" to be found after three decades of emotional and political warfare over abortion.

Mrs. Clinton is widely seen as a possible candidate for the party's presidential nomination in 2008, and her remarks signaled that she could be recalibrating her strong identification with the abortion-rights movement as the Democratic Party engages in its own re-examination of its handling of the issue in the wake of Senator John Kerry's loss in the 2004 presidential race.

Ms. Clinton has been a visible and very public defender of abortion rights, appearing at a huge rally in Washington last spring and denouncing what she called Republican efforts to demonize the abortion rights movement.

While she acknowledged in her address today that Americans have "deeply held differences" over abortion rights, Mrs. Clinton told the annual conference of the Family Planning Advocates of New York State, "I for one respect those who believe with all their heart and conscience that there are no circumstances under which abortion should be available."

In addition to her description of abortion as a "tragic choice" for many," Mrs. Clinton said that faith and organized religion were the "primary" reasons that teenagers abstain from sexual relations, and reminded the audience that during the 1990's, she promoted "teen celibacy" as a way to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies.

"The fact is, the best way to reduce the number of abortions is to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies in the first place," Mrs. Clinton said.

Mrs. Clinton also called today for the Bush administration, religious groups, supporters and opponents of abortion rights and others to look beyond the abortion rights divide and form a broad alliance on other issues that she suggested as less incendiary: sex-education programs for teenagers that included abstinence education, emergency contraception for women who have recently had unprotected intercourse, and family planning.

The speech was also notable for a stream of statistics and data that, Mrs. Clinton's aides said afterward, were included to underscore her view that the reduction of "unwanted pregnancies" could be a unifying issue for supporters and opponents of abortion rights.

At one point, for instance, she drew gasps from some in the audience by mentioning that 7 percent of American women who do not use contraception account for 53 percent of all unintended pregnancies.

Several women in the audience reacted positively to Mrs. Clinton, whose remarks were interrupted by applause several times and ended with a standing ovation. But they also said her language and themes seemed politically calculated to deal with the abortion "freak-out" among Democrats, as one audience member put it, and reach out to independent and conservative voters in hopes of broadening her base of support for a possible 2008 presidential run.




whats so interesting?

i think we can call this her first presidential move. i also think it's politically brilliant, because it's a perfect example of her husband's always deft triangulation strategy, except here she's doing it on perhaps out most divisive social issue. i also think it has much more authority, and is much more persuasive, coming from a women -- particularly to even staunchly anti-choice/pro-life women.

let's focus on HRC, and what she's doing with this, not on the issue of abortion itself. this is an issue she's using in order to implement a shrewd political strategy. it's the strategy, not the issue, that's so important.

PLEASE: NO ABORTION DISCUSSION!!! LET'S TALK POLITICS, STRATEGY, AND HRC!!!

thanks.

 

[nbcrusader]

An excellent move that reduces the most vocal elements on the issue to the fringe.

 

[melon]

The way I've always looked at it is that you can keep abortion legal, but if you can make a case to convince people to prevent unwanted pregnancies or to choose not to have an abortion, then all the legality in the world is meaningless.

That is the "pro-life" approach I would like to foster.

Melon

 

[Irvine511]

agreed. she's got none of her husband's soul, but she's as shrewd as anyone.

this, to me, is the heart of the issue, and i think she might just have found the piece of common ground from which to change the national discussion:

"At one point, for instance, she drew gasps from some in the audience by mentioning that 7 percent of American women who do not use contraception account for 53 percent of all unintended pregnancies."

i think both sides can agree: every pregnancy a wanted pregnancy. let's make abortion a health issue: by promoting women's health, we reduce the number of abortions.

 

[cardosino]

agreed. she's got none of her husband's soul, but she's as shrewd as anyone.

this, to me, is the heart of the issue, and i think she might just have found the piece of common ground from which to change the national discussion:

"At one point, for instance, she drew gasps from some in the audience by mentioning that 7 percent of American women who do not use contraception account for 53 percent of all unintended pregnancies."

i think both sides can agree: every pregnancy a wanted pregnancy. let's make abortion a health issue: by promoting women's health, we reduce the number of abortions.

I'll be interested to see just how much this kind of stance is taken to heart by the powers-which-wannabe in the Democratic Party. Will they full-heartedly embrace this, or will they let the more radical elements dominate the media ? Regardless, a step in the right direction for sure.

 

[verte76]

Definitely a step in the right direction, very inclusive. After 2004 we need to change the way we approach this stuff. Shades of her husband's political genius. I have yet to see Bill Clinton's match as a campaigner.

 

[BVS]

This is something I've wanted to see for years, now let's see if it can happen.

Now as far as HRC, I just don't think given the political climate of this country that we are going to go from a Bush to a Democratic woman. I think we still have awhile before a minority or a woman is elected. I think the left is ready but the middle and right may be reluctant.

I'd like to see it happen though I'm torn about Hillary, but I just don't think it will happen in 2008.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Hopefully she is able to make a difference in our society.

 

[stammer476]

Well, she's a very good politician. Feel free to interpret that statement any way you like.

 

[Irvine511]

I'll be interested to see just how much this kind of stance is taken to heart by the powers-which-wannabe in the Democratic Party. Will they full-heartedly embrace this, or will they let the more radical elements dominate the media ? Regardless, a step in the right direction for sure.

which part of the pro-choice movement do you regard as "radical"?

 

[cardosino]

which part of the pro-choice movement do you regard as "radical"?

People like this:

"In response to pro-life groups that have announced counter-protests, pro-abortion demonstrators are encouraging destructive and confrontational tactics. In an alert sent out to its supporters, a group calling itself the Radical Cheerleaders of DC said that pro-lifers will be present at the March, and that engaging them in debate is useless "because they are irrational and will not listen to you," so one way to handle them is to destroy their property, because "a thick layer of paint could really complement a bloody fetus picture.""

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/apr/04042005.html

 

[Irvine511]

fair enough.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Definitely politically brilliant, but I'd like to believe she truly cares about reducing unplanned pregnancies and abortion, especially since she's a woman and a mother. Not to say that men and fathers shouldn't be equally involved and concerned.

I think it's sad that we have to be so cynical about politicians.

 

[BVS]

We are calling for a mobile black/purple/pink noise bloc concentrated on radical cheerleading within this larger march. We are asking for people to learn the cheers at home, and come prepared with flags, noise makers and a festive spirit. Because the bloc will be mobile, radical cheering will take a slightly different form than most squads are used to; we envision it as being vocally based, thus allowing anyone to join in. We are calling upon any squads or individuals who have PRO-CHOICE cheers to send them to the contact information below; we will then compile a master cheer list and put it up on this website.

Aside from the cheering aspect, we feel the purpose of this contingent is to be as loud and as visible as possible. We want to show our commitment to tactical diversity while showing the government, as well as the pro-choice movement, that the radical community is as committed to the issue of women’s choice as it is to anything else. We are encouraging creative direct action for this march, including: guerilla theater, drums/music, literature distribution, puppets, banners, etc… For the purposes of this march many of our common tactics will prove futile, therefore, as members of the DC community based upon our experience and knowledge of the area, we are discouraging property destruction and police confrontation as tactics.

HOWEVER, if you or your group has a strong affinity for property destruction and/or confrontation, we suggest channeling your efforts in creative ways. For example, we can guarantee that there will be anti-choice counter-protesters present throughout the city. Though angrily confronting such people is useless because they are irrational and will not listen to you, their demonstrations often rely heavily on visuals. These visuals are often put on the sides of mobile vehicles or set up behind a very small fence; either way a thick layer of paint could really compliment a bloody fetus picture.

http://www.radicalcheer.org/call.htm

Still not what I would choose but not exactly a call for destruction.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I'm not a nut over Hillary, but I am glad she is doing this. She is taking a step in the right direction, and hopefully it will unify America much better on this divisive, heated issue.

 

[U2Kitten]

Okay, no discussion of abortion. I'll discuss Hillary I detest the woman more than I care to say. I do not even want to think of that bitch anywhere near running our country, oh the horror

Gotta say though, if her idea is to teach people about contraceptives, that's rather lame. They're out there, tons of different kinds. You can't force anyone to use them even if they're free. Everyone over 9 these days knows where babies come from, and know what you have to do to stop them from coming. Big duh. This changes nothing.

 

[Dreadsox]

Sounds like you spent a lot of time examing her ideas on this issue.

 

[verte76]

*Many* people don't like Hillary. She's controversial and somewhat divisive. But it's hard to deny that she's got political smarts and appeals to some people.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Okay, no discussion of abortion. I'll discuss Hillary I detest the woman more than I care to say. I do not even want to think of that bitch anywhere near running our country, oh the horror

A little harsh, I do think even though we may not agree with her "pro-choice" take on the issue, perhaps she is trying to bridge the gap to reduce the number of abortions in the ways she feels that are most effective. Simply promoting sexual purity [SIZE=0.5](although seemingly a relatively new thing coming from the Clinton family)[/SIZE] is what she is trying to accomplish. If we stand for a value for life, we should be happy that she is making an avid effort to bridge the gap between the right and left.

Gotta say though, if her idea is to teach people about contraceptives, that's rather lame. They're out there, tons of different kinds. You can't force anyone to use them even if they're free. Everyone over 9 these days knows where babies come from, and know what you have to do to stop them from coming. Big duh. This changes nothing.

Still, I'm optimistic that she will send a positive message to both sides, and make a significant accomplishment.

 

[Irvine511]

Okay, no discussion of abortion. I'll discuss Hillary I detest the woman more than I care to say. I do not even want to think of that bitch anywhere near running our country, oh the horror

that's rather misogynist.

 

[U2Kitten]

If she were a man, I would like her no better- I'd just have used the word asshole instead of bitch

 

[U2Kitten]

Still, I'm optimistic that she will send a positive message to both sides, and make a significant accomplishment.

Well I'm not, because it's not going to stop the people who go without birth control intentionally. Some think it will never happen to them, some are trying to get pregnant to 'trap' a guy and then become a devastated 'victim' who needs an abortion when they find out he's not interested and she doesn't want to raise it alone (before anyone jumps on me for this let me say that sadly I have personally known people like this, they even admit it!) It's also rather insulting to make it look like grown women don't know what to do to prevent pregnancy and they need help, gimme a break! Also, this is nothing new or monumental, pro abortion people have always said they don't like abortions and the key to stopping them is birth control and prevention, so why is this even newsworthy?

So I don't believe what she's doing is going to help anymore than an abstinance program which is also unrealistic. She did this for political reasons only, it's all lip service, it's not going to change anything. If I say anything else I will end up back in a debate and I am not in the mood (and I know no one else wants to hear it either)

 

[angel_of_L.A.]

I love Hillary.

That said, I do hope that if anything comes out of this it is the importance of treating women's health care issues in the most holistic way possible. Especially, for women living in poor urban and rural neighborhoods with little or no access to medical care or health insurance. The latter only reminds of me of Hillary's great universal healthcare plan that was botched by those in power, including her husband.

 

[Golightly Grrl]

I love Hillary.

That said, I do hope that if anything comes out of this it is the importance of treating women's health care issues in the most holistic way possible. Especially, for women living in poor urban and rural neighborhoods with little or no access to medical care or health insurance. The latter only reminds of me of Hillary's great universal healthcare plan that was botched by those in power, including her husband.

 

[verte76]

Health insurance was one reason why my sister got married. When she got married she got in on her new husband's insurance plan. This situation had been bothering the hell out of my parents, one of their kids not even having health insurance. My sister has had numerous health problems and had to deal with the expense of them. It's not easy.

 

[Scarletwine]

I love how some people hate a person that to my knowledge never hurt them on any issue. Trying to get universal healthcare?

I very much dislike Bush, but it is not on frivilous reasons but his policies.

I really like that there may be way to bring us together on this issue to a point. I want prevention to be the main push of effort. Some think knowledge of contraception and sexual truth to be widepread but that is no longer true in today's schools and I remember the myths I learned before sex ed. I really think the abstinence only programs promote unwanted pregnancy. Afteral there are many statistics that show knowledge is power and promotes a later beginning to ones sexual life.

 

[Irvine511]

Well I'm not, because it's not going to stop the people who go without birth control intentionally. Some think it will never happen to them, some are trying to get pregnant to 'trap' a guy and then become a devastated 'victim' who needs an abortion when they find out he's not interested and she doesn't want to raise it alone (before anyone jumps on me for this let me say that sadly I have personally known people like this, they even admit it!) It's also rather insulting to make it look like grown women don't know what to do to prevent pregnancy and they need help, gimme a break! Also, this is nothing new or monumental, pro abortion people have always said they don't like abortions and the key to stopping them is birth control and prevention, so why is this even newsworthy?

i'm sorry, but this still sounds mysogynist. it's as if you're saying that women should be punished should they get pregnant. it's all the woman's fault, not the man's fault. and this combined with your description of HRC as a "bitch" ...

 

[Macfistowannabe]

If more liberal politicians clarify that they believe abortion is a "sad, even tragic choice to many, many women," and work over the issue consistently to prove they aren't playing games, they might gain a little more appreciation from the pro-life community. I don't believe the woman should be punished (not to start the whole abortion debate, this thread clearly states that it's uncalled for), but to help them make a choice (in our legal system today, again, not debating Roe v Wade, but acknowledging that it exists) that they won't regret. Of course, I hope 100% that the choice is life, and Hillary is reaching for that to happen more often.

I don't think all the feminists are going to listen to what Hillary has to say, because some believe that their unborn child is part of their body. I don't think all the pro-lifers are going to listen to Hillary either, because she backs Roe v. Wade. If we can block out the assumption that she's trying to become president, or any other assumption, I think she can help bring the numbers down. I think it takes both sides to listen and block out political differences in order for a significant outcome to happen.

 

[Do Miss America]

It's pretty simple you eliminate unwanted pregnacies as much as you can by education. Anyone who thinks that our children know everything they need to know is kidding themselves. I've worked with inner city kids and it's amazing how much they don't know.

So you eliminate the problem before anything else. You don't automatically ban abortion and send kids into alleys, without giving them the means to protect themselves. That's ridiculous. The fact is that a very large percentage of pro-choice people wouldn't and haven't had an abortion themselves. They realize the emotional scarring, I think so many think of pro-choice people as being heartless. That's simple not the case. I think most just see it as a necessary evil.

I'm glad Hillary is finally trying to make that point and trying to bridge the gap. I'm tired of this issue being simplified into yes or no. There is so much between that yes and no that needs to be taken care of before any talk of banning anything happens.

 

[financeguy]

Well personally, I am very much against abortion. The problem with legalising abortion is that it turns into abortion on demand very quickly, which has happened in most countries where abortion has been legalised.

The arguement in favour of legalising abortion is very often that there should be legal provision for abortion because there may be cases where there is a risk to the life of the mother. Now in reality this happens very infrequently, and there are legal mechanisms around this. Now at this stage I am not entirely convinced what agenda Hilary Clinton is pushing, but there are surely humanist secular arguements against abortion as well as religious ones?