How much jail time for women who have abortions? - Page 2

Vincent Vega · 07-31-2007, 02:51 PM

It was teamwork at its best.

phillyfan26 · 07-31-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Irvine511
the person punished would most likely be the physician.

I think that's the idea.

I'm much more conservative with my viewpoints on abortion. I'm totally against it.

That said, my personal viewpoints don't mean that legislation should be made of it. I'm pro-life and pro-choice, I guess.

deep · 07-31-2007, 03:37 PM

right now abortion is tolerated,
and legal

what would be the penalty if one beat his employee to death in 2007?

what would be the penalty if one beat his slave to death in 1850?

what would be the penalty in one killed someone in a dual in 2007 vs 1780?

What would be the penalty for throwing a person off of public transportation because of skin color in 2007 vs 1907 vs 1960?

If someone asked what should the penalty be for severely beating a slave in 1850 even abolitionist might have been perplexed?

If abortion is made illegal in 2010
within a year or two plenty of people will not have any problems with severe penalties for breaking the abortion laws that they consider murder.

Is there any tolerance of people accused of holding and treating servants as slaves?

Jesus, just look at how much different smokers are treated within a very short time span.

Irvine511 · 07-31-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by anitram
I don't think we'd be back to coat hangers. Most likely you'd see dozens of clinics popping up in Canadian border towns (this has been widely suggested) which would charge $, and my guess is some doctors would perform the procedure defiantly.

women in Flordia want abortions, too.

maycocksean · 07-31-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by deep
right now abortion is tolerated,
and legal

what would be the penalty if one beat his employee to death in 2007?

what would be the penalty if one beat his slave to death in 1850?

what would be the penalty in one killed someone in a dual in 2007 vs 1780?

What would be the penalty for throwing a person off of public transportation because of skin color in 2007 vs 1907 vs 1960?

If someone asked what should the penalty be for severely beating a slave in 1850 even abolitionist might have been perplexed?

If abortion is made illegal in 2010
within a year or two plenty of people will not have any problems with severe penalties for breaking the abortion laws that they consider murder.

So in other words you're saying that banning of abortion would signify such a dramatic shift in societal mores that most people would demand murder-level punishment for women who have abortions? I see the sense in your argument, but I personally doubt it would pan out that way. I can't see such a dramatic shift in that direction considering the penalties in place pre-Roe v. Wade.

Furthermore, where I live, abortion IS illegal. You can be sure it happens, however, though how it does is not common knowledge (at least not to me). I can tell you that there are no recorded cases that I'm aware of a woman or a doctor being prosecuted for abortion.

So in light of that, I'm sticking with my original theory. Pro-lifers want the "Official Societal Censure", which they believe will severely reduce the number of abortions, and they aren't giving much thought to prosecution of the crime.

Maybe the pro-life proponents on this forum could weigh in. Where are they anyway?

Quote:

Originally posted by deep
[B
Jesus, just look at how much different smokers are treated within a very short time span. [/B]

Yeah, me and my non-smoking pals like to run down a smoker if we see one by himself and teach him a little lesson. . .

financeguy · 07-31-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maycocksean
Maybe the pro-life proponents on this forum could weigh in. Where are they anyway?

The answer isn't really very complex. No jail time for women who have abortions, but professional misconduct charges, consfication by the State of income derived from performing abortions and possible jail time for repeat offenders for doctors that perform abortions.

Incidentally haven't some states in the US already acceded to the wishes of the majority of the electorate in those states by effectively banning abortion?

Some members of this forum, perhaps, aren't necessarily fans of democracy.

deep · 07-31-2007, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maycocksean

So in other words you're saying that banning of abortion would signify such a dramatic shift in societal mores

I am not making light of slavery, segregation, dueling or smoking.

What I am trying to do
is speculate how something once legal, and believed to be acceptable behavior by law abiding citizens can and does get treated differently when it is not only frowned upon, but something that is universally condemned.

When slavery was illegal in some states
it was acceptable because it was still legal.

Once abortion becomes universally condemned
and the goal is for it to be illegal in all states, the penalties will come

because all abortions will be indefensible then

I have not watched the video

But, I do believe most pro lifers would want a universal ban with severe punishments

especially for providers, they would be considered the al-Quedas in the battle.

phillyfan26 · 07-31-2007, 05:19 PM

But abortion has moved in the opposite direction. It's become legal. The progress got it here. It's not going to be reversed.

deep · 07-31-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maycocksean

Maybe the pro-life proponents on this forum could weigh in. Where are they anyway?

OK,

We really don't want to abolish slavery, (honest).

We just want all the new states added to the union
to be slave free.

We are reasonable, nothing radical like abolition.

financeguy · 07-31-2007, 05:23 PM

Incidentally, to offer an Irish perspective, although thousands of women DO travel to the UK for abortions each year, the pro-choice lobby have recently discovered to their chagrin that the numbers have actually DECLINED in recent years (probably the result of better sex education, and more easily available and cheaper (relative to average incomes) contraceptives, both of which are of course good things).

One would think that both the pro-life and pro-choice lobbies would welcome this development but one gets the impression, oddly, that the pro-choice lobby here don't actually like this trend, they would much rather the numbers were higher as it would be grist to their mill.

deep · 07-31-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phillyfan26
But abortion has moved in the opposite direction. It's become legal. The progress got it here. It's not going to be reversed.

But, prohibition is where we have progressed to.

Everyone knows the dangers and destruction of alcohol.

We won't go backwards and repeal prohibition.

BVS · 07-31-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by financeguy

Some members of this forum, perhaps, aren't necessarily fans of democracy.

There's quite a few...

phillyfan26 · 07-31-2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by deep

But, prohibition is where we have progressed to.

Everyone knows the dangers and destruction of alcohol.

We won't go backwards and repeal prohibition.

I classify that as the exception to the rule.

financeguy · 07-31-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

There's quite a few...

So for the sake of argument, where the legislature of a state have implemented a full or partial ban on abortion within their state, and the legislation implemented is fully consistent with the wishes of a majority based on polls of the electorate, is that wrong?

deep · 07-31-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by deep

I do believe most pro lifers would want a universal ban with severe punishments

especially for providers, they would be considered the al-Quedas in the battle.

Quote:

Originally posted by financeguy

The answer isn't really very complex.
professional misconduct charges, consfication by the State of income derived from performing abortions and possible jail time for repeat offenders for doctors that perform abortions.

Vincent Vega · 07-31-2007, 05:30 PM

The question is, was it really a majority, or rather a very loud minority?

BVS · 07-31-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by financeguy

So for the sake of argument, where the legislature of a state have implemented a full or partial ban on abortion within their state, and the legislation implemented is fully consistent with the wishes of a majority based on polls of the electorate, is that wrong?

Which states are we talking about? Was this a vote or some magazine poll?

phillyfan26 · 07-31-2007, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by financeguy
the legislation implemented is fully consistent with the wishes of a majority based on polls of the electorate

http://forum.interference.com/t178531.html

If it is even the majority anymore (I don't think so), it won't be for long.

deep · 07-31-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phillyfan26
The progress got it here. It's not going to be reversed.

Progress has help us become a much better country

and the last two Supreme Court appointees

made a commitment to respect "stare decisis "

and based on this last court session they are not men of their word.

financeguy · 07-31-2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
[B]Which states are we talking about? Was this a vote or some magazine poll?

I began the example with....

Quote:

Originally posted by financeguy
[B]So for the sake of argument...

...although come to think of it, Ireland is one such state. An actual example, which exists in the real world.

07-31-2007, 02:51 PM	#21
Vincent Vega Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 6,739 Local Time: 10:50 AM	It was teamwork at its best. __________________

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07-31-2007, 03:37 PM	#23
deep Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A far distance down. Posts: 28,601 Local Time: 12:50 AM	right now abortion is tolerated, and legal what would be the penalty if one beat his employee to death in 2007? what would be the penalty if one beat his slave to death in 1850? what would be the penalty in one killed someone in a dual in 2007 vs 1780? What would be the penalty for throwing a person off of public transportation because of skin color in 2007 vs 1907 vs 1960? If someone asked what should the penalty be for severely beating a slave in 1850 even abolitionist might have been perplexed? If abortion is made illegal in 2010 within a year or two plenty of people will not have any problems with severe penalties for breaking the abortion laws that they consider murder. Is there any tolerance of people accused of holding and treating servants as slaves? Jesus, just look at how much different smokers are treated within a very short time span.

07-31-2007, 05:19 PM	#28
phillyfan26 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 30,343 Local Time: 03:50 AM	But abortion has moved in the opposite direction. It's become legal. The progress got it here. It's not going to be reversed.

07-31-2007, 05:23 PM	#30
financeguy ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ireland Posts: 10,122 Local Time: 09:50 AM	Incidentally, to offer an Irish perspective, although thousands of women DO travel to the UK for abortions each year, the pro-choice lobby have recently discovered to their chagrin that the numbers have actually DECLINED in recent years (probably the result of better sex education, and more easily available and cheaper (relative to average incomes) contraceptives, both of which are of course good things). One would think that both the pro-life and pro-choice lobbies would welcome this development but one gets the impression, oddly, that the pro-choice lobby here don't actually like this trend, they would much rather the numbers were higher as it would be grist to their mill.

07-31-2007, 05:30 PM	#36
Vincent Vega Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 6,739 Local Time: 10:50 AM	The question is, was it really a majority, or rather a very loud minority?