How does one become a Christian? (a survey)

[pub crawler]

?

[80sU2isBest]

You must believe in Christ Jesus and his redemptive work on the cross, and subsequent resirrection. You must be born again (accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, follow him).

[RavenStar]

I have no idea. I'm not xian or do I have any intentions of ever becoming one.

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He who stands atop the highest mountain can see the farthest.

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by RavenStar:
I have no idea. I'm not xian or do I have any intentions of ever becoming one.

Then why bother posting in this thread?

[Lilly]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
You must believe in Christ Jesus and his redemptive work on the cross, and subsequent resirrection. You must be born again (accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, follow him).

whoa there 80s, must be born again? let's see, i believ in Christ, but i've never been 1. baptized 2. confirmed 3. anything else like that. so, i'm not a Christian? 'cos silly me, i thought the only prerequisite to 'becoming' a Christian was believing in Christ.

[Achtung Bubba]

I'd personally appreciate if we were recognized as "Christians", not "xians".

That said, I *believe* that this is the core of Christianity, belief in the following:

* That God is the omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good Creator of everything.

* That we humans have been given the free will to follow God's commandments and have failed miserably. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23).

* That the results of our self-centeredness is utter separation from God. "For the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23a).

* That Jesus Christ the Son of God, fully human and fully God, came and lived a perfect life and was killed in our place.

* That after three days, Christ rose from the grave, that He IS risen and still alive today, in Heaven preparing a place for us.

* That faith in Christ (and that alone) saves us from ourselves. "...but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23b)

* That we are to obey His commandments, which are chiefly: Love God, love thy neighbor, and spread the gospel.

I BELIEVE that I have included all the important points and only those points. I believe that most denominations look at those who deviate from the above as following a separate religion.

For example, some believe Christ was not fully God (merely a prophet), some believe Him not fully man (some apparation). Most Christians would agree that either belief is outside the faith.

[Achtung Bubba]

Originally posted by Lilly:
whoa there 80s, must be born again? let's see, i believ in Christ, but i've never been 1. baptized 2. confirmed 3. anything else like that. so, i'm not a Christian? 'cos silly me, i thought the only prerequisite to 'becoming' a Christian was believing in Christ.

Lilly, denominations treat baptism differently. Mine, for example, believes it to be only an outward sign of commitment (nothing more), so a person who gave his life to Christ on a Wednesday and died on a Friday will go to Heaven despite the fact that he was to baptised Sunday. Further, we recognize it only as something someone can knowingly participate in (no infant baptisms), and we thus have nothing comparable to confirmation.

I believe 80s was saying that being "born again" is merely accepting Christ as Lord and Savior, and not necessarily discounting you out of the faith.

(John 3:1-7 has Christ Himself speaking about the importance of being born again.)

No offense, but I believe you're jumping the gun.

[melon]

Faith in Jesus Christ as the Messiah, the Son of God, who lived, died, and was resurrected.

Period.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[Vorsprung]

Another question...

How to convince a sceptic(not an anti-religious) person?????

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Vorsprung durch Technik

[Lilly]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
Lilly, denominations treat baptism differently. Mine, for example, believes it to be only an outward sign of commitment (nothing more), so a person who gave his life to Christ on a Wednesday and died on a Friday will go to Heaven despite the fact that he was to baptised Sunday. Further, we recognize it only as something someone can knowingly participate in (no infant baptisms), and we thus have nothing comparable to confirmation.

I believe 80s was saying that being "born again" is merely accepting Christ as Lord and Savior, and not necessarily discounting you out of the faith.

(John 3:1-7 has Christ Himself speaking about the importance of being born again.)

No offense, but I believe you're jumping the gun.

None taken, 'cos I was. However, I have a really tough time with discussing religion with words like "must", I don't know why, but I do.

My family is Irish Proto-Catholic, so religion is a hot spot around me. Attending a Lutheran church for my cousin's confirmation, there was my Catholic family doing the sign of the cross and getting some odd looks. It made me feel rather self-conscious about my faith (which is not something that needs help, since I am developing my faith daily).

As for baptism, my immidiate family believes you should choose God, although we are 'Catholics'. Though I've been thinking about it, I don't think I'm ready yet at all.

And Bubba, I agree with your points of the core of Christianity. And 80s, sorry about jumping you there, it's just a touchy subject.

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Every question possesses a power that does not lie in the answer.

[This message has been edited by Lilly (edited 03-13-2002).]

[melon]

Originally posted by Vorsprung:
How to convince a sceptic(not an anti-religious) person?????

It is very difficult, mostly because of the widely differing nature of Christianity. Obviously, the mental stereotype of a Christian is that they are judgmental, and completely lacking in reason, latching on to such far-fetched ideas as "creationism," and very legalistic, creating a moral structure that many of us find silly (i.e., "a good Christian doesn't drink, smoke, cuss, play cards, dance, believe in evolution," etc.)

The "silent" Christian, to me, is the liberal Christian, who generally rejects all that legalism and has more of a personal faith, but is so tolerant that they have no problem with non-believers. Then, of course, it is those right-wing Christians who insist on evangelism to the non-believers, but carry all that legalistic baggage, coming across as a cult member half of the time. As one of those "silent" Christians, I find myself disgusted by many of the actions of the conservative Christians, so I can only imagine what non-believers must think!

So, essentially, that is why I think that Christianity is difficult for skeptics, because they are only exposed to one side of Christianity, when, in reality, there is a great rainbow of colors to it.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[melon]

FYI, "infant baptism" in Roman Catholicism is one of the things we inherit from the medieval stoics, who believed that, due to original sin we inherit from Adam and Eve (not to mention the "evil" we inherited from being born from an "evil" woman), we were all inherently tainted. However, through baptism, the original sin that automatically condemned us to hell was washed away in baptism.

If a child died before baptism, he/she was stuck in a state of "limbo" for all eternity, since the original sin keeps them from entering heaven. If a competant individual died before baptism, he/she would automatically go to hell. With that in mind, baptism was less of a process of initiation into the Christian Church (remember that this originated before the days of Protestantism) as it was a way to purify your soul of the inherited original sin of Adam and Eve.

Since the Second Vatican Council (1964), this idea of "baby limbo" and "inherent evil" has been thrown out, and "infant baptism" is now the first initiation rite into the Catholic Church. The Sacrament of Confirmation, done somewhere during ages 12-15 (depending on the local diocesan preference), is the sacrament where you make a conscious effort to join the Church.

There are lots of misconceptions about Catholic baptism (even amongst Catholics), so I thought I'd comment on it.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by Lilly:
whoa there 80s, must be born again? let's see, i believ in Christ, but i've never been 1. baptized 2. confirmed 3. anything else like that. so, i'm not a Christian? 'cos silly me, i thought the only prerequisite to 'becoming' a Christian was believing in Christ.

Lilly, "you must be born again" are Christ's words, not mine. And it doesn't have anything to do with being baptized or confirmed. Those are simply ways that people show the world they hav become Christians. No, being born again is simply what happens when you become a Christian - the old nature, the sin nature is crucified with Christ, and the "born again" part comes in when your new spirit is resurrected with Christ. The Bible says that as Christians, we are dead to sin, the sin nature and has been crucified and we are new creations. "being dead to sin" doesn't mean that our flesh will never sin again, but rather that the Holy Spirit leaves in us now, and while the flesh may sin, the spirit is perfect. "Born again" has nothing really to do with man's efforts or good deeds, but rather simply accepting God's free grace and gift of slavation. That's all "born again" has ever meant. I don't know why people are scared of the term. It's quite Biblical.

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
Lilly, denominations treat baptism differently. Mine, for example, believes it to be only an outward sign of commitment (nothing more), so a person who gave his life to Christ on a Wednesday and died on a Friday will go to Heaven despite the fact that he was to baptised Sunday. Further, we recognize it only as something someone can knowingly participate in (no infant baptisms), and we thus have nothing comparable to confirmation.

I believe 80s was saying that being "born again" is merely accepting Christ as Lord and Savior, and not necessarily discounting you out of the faith.

(John 3:1-7 has Christ Himself speaking about the importance of being born again.)

No offense, but I believe you're jumping the gun.

Thanks, Achtung, you explained it wonderfully.

[RavenStar]

Then why bother posting in this thread?[/B]

so that the thread would be bumped so pub crawler could get an answer.

I also apologize for refering to Christian as xian.


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He who stands atop the highest mountain can see the farthest

[KhanadaRhodes]

Originally posted by RavenStar:
I'm not xian

and why refer to it as that? last i checked, "xian" is not a word to show religious affliation.

[RavenStar]

Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes:
and why refer to it as that? last i checked, "xian" is not a word to show religious affliation.

If you read my last post I apologized for saying that. It is a short form like xmas(christmas)



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He who stands atop the highest mountain can see the farthest

[speedracer]

Originally posted by RavenStar:
If you read my last post I apologized for saying that. It is a short form like xmas(christmas)

[/B]

Well, the x could mean

-the shape of a cross, the symbol of salvation
-the Greek letter Chi, the first letter in the Greek spelling of Christo
-x, for people who want Christ to have nothing to do with Christmas

I think those are all the possible interpretations.

[senrab]

"X" = "Christ" in Greek.

Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes:
and why refer to it as that? last i checked, "xian" is not a word to show religious affliation.

[Achtung Bubba]

Apology accepted, Ravenstar.

Melon, no surprises, but I disagree on a point or two:

Faith in Jesus Christ as the Messiah, the Son of God, who lived, died, and was resurrected.

Period.

That seems insufficient, compared to what I listed. Specifically on the issues of WHY Christ died and to what degree we are to follow His teachings.

After all, Satan believes that Christ is the ressurected Son of God.

The "silent" Christian, to me, is the liberal Christian, who generally rejects all that legalism and has more of a personal faith, but is so tolerant that they have no problem with non-believers. Then, of course, it is those right-wing Christians who insist on evangelism to the non-believers, but carry all that legalistic baggage, coming across as a cult member half of the time. As one of those "silent" Christians, I find myself disgusted by many of the actions of the conservative Christians, so I can only imagine what non-believers must think!

I don't believe that "right-wing Christians" alone insist on evangelism:

* Matthew 28:19 ("teach all nations")
* Mark 16:15
* Acts 1:8

Further, Acts and the Epistles document the fact that the first Christians preached extensively; we should probably follow suit.

Most importantly, there's the implication that the Gospel message itself motivates evangelism. Great Commission aside, the New Testament also teaches these three truths:

* Man is doomed on its own (Romans 6:23).
* Christ is the only way to salvation (John 14:6).
* We are to love our neighbors (John 13:34).

(There are, of course, other verses; I list just one as an example.)

If those three statements are true, it follows that we should preach the Gospel to everyone.

(And, as an aside, I'm not sure what happens when faithful Buddhists die. I like to hope they too find God, but I still believe that that is only possible through Christ, whether or not the Buddhists are cognizant of Him. At any rate, such a hope is less certain than the Christianity itself; and such a hope is not an excuse to avoid evangelism.)

I admittedly don't follow the commandment as well as I should, but that doesn't invalidate the Great Commision: Christ explicitly teaches it, the Apostles followed it, and the basic tenets of Christianity imply it.

[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 03-13-2002).]