How can Republicans (or political conservatives) be U2 fans

[Se7en]

Originally posted by Veranda:
I

As a matter of fact, I only recently found out they were flaming leftists and it came as quite a shock and disappointment.

I wouldn't say that they are "flaming leftists"...liberals, yes...

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The numeral 7

[This message has been edited by Se7en (edited 11-13-2001).]

[U2FReAk]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:

Truly, this was a sorta lame question to ask.

It's not a lame question to ask, it's one of the best questions asked on this forum EVER.
I've been trying to find out the same thing several times in other peoples threads but no one would care to answer...
IMO U2 is not just the melody, it's melody, lyrics and attitude. The whole thing. and if I were a conservative, I would find it impossible to listen to just the melody 'cause all the other things are so present. I would go nuts.
And about U2 being christians, well, you can say that my dilemma with U2 lies here. I'm not religous. but, I can stand the preeching in, let's say Gloria, 'cause religion has not half the importance of politics to me. This is not to say I don't find religion interesting, 'cause I do, I just don't find preaching and lyrics about how good God is interesting.. but it's something I can overlook.There are other very interesting pieces of writing.

[Se7en]

How many of U2's songs actually deal with politics that a republican would disagree with? All I can think of is Bullet the Blue Sky...?

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The numeral 7

[Shygirl]

I think what we forget is that Bono and the rest of the band aren't writing these songs "for" us, they are just expressing their OWN feelings and views through music.. To be upset b/c they don't go along with our own personal political or religious views is just insane.

I think you should be able to take away some personal meaning from a song, but don't forget it probably means something totally different to the people that wrote it.

[scatteroflight]

Yes, of course I agree entirely with the religious, political, etc. etc. views of every band, author, movie, etc. that I enjoy. Despite the fact that they're all different in their political views, religious views, personal lives, and so on.

What a ridiculous idea. Why don't people get over this?? I'm sorry but the prevalence of this view is really starting to bug me.

It so happens that I'm a Jehovah's Witness and I'm politically neutral. I know other JWs who like U2--a couple came to the concert in Vancouver with me. Because U2 sometimes expresses political views, I guess I'll throw out all my records. If Bono says something at a concert that is a sentiment I don't feel I can echo, I don't scream and cheer it. Is that so hard to understand?

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You've got to cry without weeping
Talk without speaking
Scream without raising your voice

[This message has been edited by scatteroflight (edited 11-13-2001).]

[DoctorGonzo]

As a matter of fact, I only recently found out they were flaming leftists and it came as quite a shock and disappointment.

Why?

Explain what you disagree with, please.

How many of U2's songs actually deal with politics that a republican would disagree with? All I can think of is Bullet the Blue Sky...?

Mothers Of The Dissappeared

The people who took their kids away in the night were bankrolled by the U.S government. Specifically the Regan administration.

[Like someone to blame]

Yes, Bono is "playin" the Bush Administration on debt relief. It's called "politics" and as I said in an earlier post my righteous friend on the right, Bono is a master at it. This logically explains the B-man's public praise of the Administration. Again, my righteous friend, this is an issue that Bono can rally Republican's behind because he can show how it can actually BENEFIT them politically. It actually is the perfect issue for a Republican. They can "look" compassionate without getting their hands dirty.

Orrin Hatch is simply NOT a compassionate, caring man, politically speaking. If you call fighting for tax cuts for the wealthy, backing the Health Insurance lobby over Universal Health Care, and opposing extended unemployment benefits to those who lost their job as a result of 9/11 (to name only a few!) compassionate, then you and I have vastly different interpretations of "compassionate". Hatch is an angry, mean spirited man...yes, Bono thanked him righteously at SLC over "Drop the Debt" ...but what does one expect? Hatch's track record is abysmal when it comes to political issues of "compassion" and will continue to be so in the future. At least he didn't "drop the ball" on "drop the debt" so I can give him some props for that!

[notiti]

Originally posted by Diamond The U2 Patriot:


Mr Someone-I suggest you have Bono edit the current Elevation Tour brochere where he says nice things about the Bush Administration, but that's right according to YOU he's just 'playin' these ppl right?

Absolutely!!!! Bono is smart enough to know that by insulting the current administration then he is not going to get what he wants out of them. Bono is in a position where he needs money, something that people are loath to give. He can't be like the Ani DiFrancos of the world and go about slinging arrows at the people who's support he needs.
But think about it Bush and Bono are diametrically opposed.
-Bush put so many people to death during his run as govenor of Texas that it's not even funny. No one can deny this. U2 and Amnesty International certainly would not apporve.
-Bush makes his money off of oil concerns, U2 are ardent Green Peace supporters.
-Bush has stated that he is opposed to making Gay marriages legal. U2 "belive[s] in love."
The list goes on and on. Now I am not saying that conservatives can't like U2, I'm sure that the religous link is a big draw for many conservatives, I'm just going to contend that I'm not sure those who are politically conservative nessisarily understand alot of what U2 is trying to say. And you know, I frankly think it's great that some U2 fans are conservative, I hope the music will influence them to gain perhaps a more liberal outlook.
Also is the "songs that Republicans wouldn't like category" think of Daddy's Gonna Pay For Your Crashed Car. Now think of the fact that Bush ran his oil company in Texas into the ground THREE TIMES before becoming president. Each time his father, or his father's friends bailed him out.
AH HA SHA-LA.


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Please repeat the message, it's the music that we choose. http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~kljense3/MrTvs.html

[This message has been edited by notiti (edited 11-13-2001).]

[Foxxern]

Originally posted by pub crawler:
Most people on this board are politically conservative.

I would have to disagree on this point. I think that the conservatives here simply make their voices more known. They tend to get more into the ideological arguments, especially those in Free Your Mind. Nothing wrong with that--if I had more time I might get in a little more than I already do to help defend the liberal viewpoint. But I think given the average age of the people in here (around 22), I would have a very hard time believing that we are actually outnumbered. The conservatives in here make up for that with the number of posts they make, and their general conviction. I'm just too busy to take much part in these arguments anymore.

As for the original question, I don't think you have to agree with everything U2 says in order to be a fan. Their spirituality goes a long way, and that really helped them in the early days, even before they were political. As they became more and more politcal, they just tended to be anti-Reagan when they saw the effects. I don't think they emphasized that too much though, aside from BTBS. Most of their politics have been anti-IRA and pro-human rights, which most fans can agree on. I think the most important aspects of their music are the themes expressed in each song/album. Those universal themes are why just about anyone can like them.

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Change is the only constant

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by Like someone to blame:
A typically arrogant, uncompassionate response by a conservative.

Eh? How does me saying that "Truly this was a lame thread" having anything to do with (1)Lack of compassion/arrogance or (2)Conservatism?

By the way, your insults to me were much worse than me calling a thread "lame", so practice what you preach, ok?

If the poster was truly offended by me calling his/her post "lame", I would have to wonder why he/she is touchy...

[TwentyNinePalms]

I find the notion that conservative people who are fans of U2 are "hypocritical" to be quite simplistic. It's like saying I can't love my husband because he voted for one person for president and I voted for another. The world is more compex than this. There's a bigger picture.

As a politically conservative person, I always loved U2 because I was intrigued with their point of view, which challenged my own. I'm not that interested in discussing issues with likeminded people. Instead, I prefer people that make me think. That's why when Bono was on stage trying to link the situation in Afghanistan to that in Africa, I din't cheer nor did I jeer. Instead, my mind was busy trying to make the connection between the two issues.

When Bono takes on an issue he does so wholeheartedly. I respect that even if I don't agree with the issue. It's his commitment to his causes that I find attractive. I don't necessarily have to agree with his causes though.

Finally, there's the music. I don't have to believe in welfare to believe that we have to "carry each other." In most cases the lyrics aren't specific to a particular political agenda (notable exceptions being Bullet and Mothers, as previously mentioned). In my opinion, the music transcends politics. The lyrics tend to speak to universal feelings.

Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

TNP

[speedracer]

Originally posted by arturod:
I'm pretty left wing, but I know some people how are very politically conservative and are U2 fans. I just find this hypocritical and paradoxical. It seems you shouldn't be able to be Republican and be a U2 fan, given the band's and Bono's stances on many of the issues. How can you people live with these contradictions? Just wondering.

arturod, I'm not talking about you now, but this question kind of reminds me about how ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED a lot of "intellectual-types" are that another intelligent being can have conservative political views. (I'm a student at Harvard, so I know this by experience.)

[Ody]

Originally posted by notiti:


-Bush has stated that he is opposed to making Gay marriages legal. U2 "belive[s] in love."
The list goes on and on. Now I am not saying that conservatives can't like U2, I'm sure that the religous link is a big draw for many conservatives, I'm just going to contend that I'm not sure those who are politically conservative nessisarily understand alot of what U2 is trying to say.

Hmmm. Did U2 ever say that they support gay marriage or are you just interpreting "we believe in love" that way. I am curious, because I don't know.

Also, if you argue that conservatives don't understand U2's message based on their political views, I think you can easily argue that one can't understand U2's message either, without understanding their religious views. I mean, when Bono yells "Judas" at the beginning of Unil the End of the World, I just don't think that people from a non-Christian background could really understand the song...

So I think that it goes both ways .

[Screaming Flower]

Originally posted by Ody:
Hmmm. Did U2 ever say that they support gay marriage or are you just interpreting "we believe in love" that way. I am curious, because I don't know.

Also, if you argue that conservatives don't understand U2's message based on their political views, I think you can easily argue that one can't understand U2's message either, without understanding their religious views. I mean, when Bono yells "Judas" at the beginning of Unil the End of the World, I just don't think that people from a non-Christian background could really understand the song...

So I think that it goes both ways .

i'm confused. are you saying a liberal can't be a christian, too? i'm just not sure how it goes both ways.



[This message has been edited by Screaming Flower (edited 11-13-2001).]

[Ody]

Originally posted by Screaming Flower:
i'm confused. are you saying a liberal can't be a christian, too? i'm just not sure how it goes both ways.

[This message has been edited by Screaming Flower (edited 11-13-2001).]

No, not really. While I do think that the majority of Christians are conservatives, I certainly don't think that they are mutually exclusive. I would be very surprised though, if the majority of liberals who find conservative U2 fans inconsistant, turn out to be Christians. Because liberal Christians would know that many if not most Christians are conservative.

What I mean when I say that it goes both ways is this: if liberals believe conservatives don't understand, and should be influenced by U2's songs, they might also find that U2's religious message influences their politics, and in a way that it is not "liberal". For example, faith-based initiatives. But, on the other hand, I can also see how U2's religious views support "liberal" issues like gun-control for example.

Maybe I just became more confusing...


[This message has been edited by Ody (edited 11-13-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ody (edited 11-13-2001).]

[rougerum]

If you think this is a legitimate question than you must ask why white kids like a hip hop band like Public Enemy since they are pretty anti white and wait a minute, you would have to ask Mr. Bono that since he is a big fan of Public Enemy and brought them on for Zoo TV and named their album "Fear of a Black Planet" as one of the best albums a few years back. Wouldn't you have to ask that question too? Bono, if you are correct, is contridicting himself too.

~rougerum

[melon]

Hmm...

How I see Bono:

Best described as a liberal politically and a liberal Christian. However, he's not a fanatic when it comes to his beliefs. I think, perhaps, that there is this belief on this board that a "liberal" or a "conservative" must be extremist, and I will admit that I am sometimes guilty of such blanket categorization. Regardless, I think it's safe to say that Bono is a leftist with moderate leanings; not a bad spot to be in, in my opinion.

Religion-wise, he's equally non-fanatical. Most of us know the story of how, during the "Boy" era, three members of U2 (sans Adam) were involved in a fundamentalist Christian organization that they fervently believed in. However, this same group then dictated to them that one could not be in a rock band to be "a true believer." To me, this is the birth of the U2 I grew to love. Bono, rather than rejecting religion, rejected his obstacle to his faith, which was institutional religion in itself. There are other means to express one's faith than through conformity to someone's strict definitions of salvation, and I believe that U2 has done exactly such a thing.

One thing noticeable in the last few years is Bono's association with the Pope and, lately, the fact that he wears a rosary around his neck. However, Bono, when asked about Catholicism, said that he agreed with much of it, but disagreed, essentially, with it's stricter social views. The fact that he does wear a rosary around his neck pretty much shows he hasn't converted--it's considered sacriligious to wear the rosary around your neck--but that he admires much of the tenets. Does Bono support gay marriage? He's never really stated I don't think, but, considering much of his previous statements, I think he would support it; but it's just a guess.

As with politics, I personally do not believe he likes the Republicans politically, but probably gets along with them as people. Plus--and it's true--how would fighting with the Republicans have helped to drop the debt? It wouldn't have at all, and, especially since he's not an American, he was smart to stray away from partisan politics. Perhaps he has learned that more good can come from working within than shouting and waving white flags, and mocking the president on Zoo TV.

Regardless, to answer the topic question, it's simple as to why conservatives can be U2 fans. The music itself has very upstanding tones to most of it. Plus, some people just don't care about all the politics involved and just like the music.

But perhaps I see it this way from the same perspective as Ody's statement about liberal Christians and inconsistency. I think it's a perspective that Bono perhaps knows all too well himself.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[Blue Room]

I just cant believe some of you are saying that if there is one aspect of U2 you dont agree with then you cant be a huge fan???

I remember seeing an interview with Bono back in 1987 during the Joshua Tree tour. The reporter asked him if it bothered him that alot of the new audience didnt understand or care about some of their political messages. Bono replied that there was a period early in their career where it did bother him if he thought that some of the audience did not get their political point of view. BUT that he came to realize that it really didnt matter whether you were there to see them because of their political stance or because you thought they were a great live band. Both are great. The music is not about separation into political groups. It is about bringing people together with varying backgrounds and opinions. If you pigeon hole fans into one political group and say they are the only ones that can like U2 you are creating a kind of musical fascism IMO. That is something I think the band would be vehemently against and has sort of indicated in interviews over the years.

I personally have not always agreed with Bono's point of view on some things. But at the very least his point of view has caused me to take a look at the issue more closely. It is my decision though where I stand on an issue, not Bono's. I dont think U2 want a bunch of robots following them around agreeing with every one of their points of view. Alot of us dont like some of the musical directions U2 has gone in. Does that mean if you dont like every single musical direction or song you cant be a huge fan?? I certainly dont think so.

[U2Bama]

As Diamond the U2 Patriot (I got it right!) always reminds us, Bono said it best: "It's about transcending boundaries."

Originally posted by Seconds;
I think that most hard line republican concervatives who enjoy U2, like them for different reasons than some Us. I love them because of their stance on human rights and anti war themes. Maybe concervatives just enjoy the the melody in their songs or maybe they only enjoy the spiritual love theme of their songs. But you are right, it does seem a bit paradoxical.

Seconds: I lean conservative and usually vote Republican. I also value human rights and, ideally, I do not LIKE war (although I feel it is necessary at times). I completely understand U2's political stance and I admire them for it, regardless of whether I always agree with them on every issue.

Originally posted by sharky:
Republicans aren't anit-human rights. Republicans aren't anti-Christian. And there are many cases where Republicans in power have done very U2-like things. The whole Drop the Debt campaign comes to mind. And I remember living in Illinois about two years ago when the Republican governor placed a moratorium on the death penalty [very big human rights/Amnesty International issue].
In the end, its all about humanity which transcends political boundaries. And coincidentally, its all about the music which transcends any boundaries you try to confine it to.

Someone goes trolling, and a SHARK bites! You've gotta love that!

Originally posted by U2FReAk:
and if I were a conservative, I would find it impossible to listen to just the melody 'cause all the other things are so present. I would go nuts. And about U2 being christians, well, you can say that my dilemma with U2 lies here. I'm not religous. but, I can stand the preeching in, let's say Gloria, 'cause religion has not half the importance of politics to me. This is not to say I don't find religion interesting, 'cause I do, I just don't find preaching and lyrics about how good God is interesting.. but it's something I can overlook.There are other very interesting pieces of writing.

Well, U2FReAk, I understand; but other people prioritize differently; I for one enjoy U2's spirituality and appreciate their political awareness and humanitarian efforts. I strongly disagree with Metallica, spiritually, but I enjoy their music, even some of their political views. If I should "go nuts" due to U2's political statements, does that mean a flaming atheist should storm out of the arena when Bono starts singing the 116th Psalm before "Streets" or the "Allelujahs" at the end of "Walk On"?

Originally posted by arturod:
Just look at some of the New York Post's reviews of the U2 concerts or that article that somone posted the other day entitled "Rock stars should shut up." Is it the music you're into? Or the love songs? The melodies? Maybe you're just not seeing the whole picure of what U2 is really about. It's like Nirvana's song "In bloom":

He's the one who likes all the pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he knows not what it means
And I say aahh

I haven't said that we should get our political views from members of the entertainment industry, but that being said, an artist's views (political, social and religious) are reflected in their work. Consequently fans are able to relate to that artist because they have similar beliefs or values and it is those values that should
come across through the music.

Here's another question: Conservatives, what are your 3 favorite U2 albums. Just wondering?

I disagreed with the NY Post review, in fact, I replied to a thread where someone posted it and I stated that Bono's political activism is INDEED very important. NO, I'm not just into the melodies or the love songs. But just as I don't agree with EVERY platform of EVERY candidate I vote for, I do not agree with EVERY political position Bono takes. And Larry's a vegetarian; I'm NOT!

As for the Nirvana excerpt, you can hardly say that we are going out personally shooting guns or partaking in violence because of our political theories.

Yes, Bono's views are reflected in his work, and I do like it when I relate to something in a good song, but how could one be expected to relate 100% to the music they listen to? I don't know about many bands that sing about the life of a 28 year old from Alabama!

3 Favorites? OCTOBER, JOSHUA TREE, ALL THAT YOU CAN'T LEAVE BEHIND

Like someone to blame posted too much for me to copy, so I'll address it without a post:

Like someone to blame: Although I am not usually fond of politicians (regardless of party affiliation), I take issue with your second-guessing of Republicans who support the Drop the Debt campaign. Many of these Senators and Congressmen came forth to support the effort due to their religious convictions and their own human spirit rather than just for votes. Probably a lot of American voters are not even aware of the campaign.

My representative, Spencer bachus (R-Alabama) was one of the FIRST, Republican or Democrat, to support Jubilee 2000, and he did it based on what he and his family and church members had seen in mission work around the world. He is currently going against the grain of Congress AND the Administration in seeking a prohibition from the American stock exchanges of trading by companies that do business in Sudan, where slavery is still legal. Unfortunately, he has not won many friends, Republican or Democrat, on this issue, but he has my support for it.

Another Republican Congressman from Alabama, Bob Riley, will be stepping down after this term to run for Governor. He wants to replace the 100 year old state Constitution, an abysmal document written by bitter post-Reconstruciton bigots, which requires the whole state to take a vote before a rural county can increase fire dues, and still has segregationist laws that violate Federal Civil Rights laws. Also, per this horrible document, a family that makes as little as $4000 has to pay state income taxes, and this "evil" Republican wants to eliminate that by spreading it to those of us who CAN afford it. Our current Democratic Governor has "suddenly" gotten on the Constitution bandwagon since he lost flat on his face when his "education lottery" referndum went down in a landslide and since our public schools are in proration.

Senator Sessions from Alabama is indeed conservative, but he is proposing expanded FREE healthcare in high-unemployment in West Alabama, AND he is addressing the causes of the region's poverty by bringing a major highway (then comes industry and jobs) through the area from Tennessee's border to the Gulf of Mexico. I feel that some Democrats would merely throw money at the symptoms, but sometimes the roots need to be addressed as well.

Please keep in mind that "consevatives" can also be "compassionate" outside of the realms of government; they can be compassionate of themselves and of their own time; I know I should do more myself, but I know many conservative people who give a LOT of themselves to those in need. Conservatives do not always think that bigger government is the solution, and usually, that is where I line up as a conservative.

Sorry for the long post; I wanted to be all-inclusive. Which reminds me, some of you need to lear to appreciate the diversity of U2's fanbase.

~U2Alabama

[STING2]

Its amazing how some of the liberals, can lump Republicans and Conservitives into one big group with exactly the same views on everything.
I'm a Republican but I'm against civilians having guns. Many of the liberals and especially the anti-war crowd might be shocked to learn that U2 supported the NATO military operations against the Bosnian Serbs and were disappointed that the USA did not start bombing years earlier. Its in the book "Until The End Of The World".
While much is known about U2s support of MLK and anti IRA stance in Northern Ireland, also their opposition to some Reagans policies in south and central America, there are 10 times as many area's where U2s views are not known.
New Years Day is a powerful song and was written in support of the Polish Solidarity movement that was opposed to the Polish Communist government and was threatened with being crushed by a possible Soviet Invasion of Poland back in 1981 that never happened. Even the most diehard Reagan supporter would cheer at that, unlike many Liberals who painted the Soviets and Communist as Angels and good guys.
But like Blue Room and others have said, most people actually may find something they agree with the band about, no matter where they come from politically. I have different views on most things with a great friend of mine even though he is a Republican. In fact, he is more of a Libertarian.
It doesn't matter if you have differences with the band on some issues. I'm sure the members of the band don't agree on everything! Also, much of what they think and believe on a whole range of issues is simply not known!
There are many Republicans who do support Amnesty International, and to a smaller extent Greenpeace. I think many of the liberals on here don't understand the wide range of views that exist in the Republican party itself. They take a a few politicians views and cast all Repulicans with them on every issue. They take U2s stand on a couple of issue's and boom, thats how they feel on everything. Nope, people and politics are Too complex to be lumped like that!