Homegrown terrorists captured

[Liesje]

NBC News and news services
Updated: 18 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Calling them "homegrown terrorists," Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said Friday that seven men had been charged with conspiring to work with al-Qaida to blow up Chicago's Sears Tower and five federal buildings.

“They were persons who for whatever reason came to view their home country as the enemy,” Gonzales said at a news conference at the Justice Department.

The suspects, ranging in age from 22 to 32, are five U.S. citizens, a legal immigrant from Haiti and a Haitian national who was in this country illegally.

Gonzales cited court documents that said the ringleader boasted of wanting to "kill all the devils we can" in a mission "just as good or greater than 9/11."

The seven individuals indicted by a federal grand jury were taken into custody Thursday when authorities swarmed a Miami warehouse that had been used by a Black Muslim group.

According to the court documents, a man identified as Narseal Batiste was the recruiter who wanted to organize "soldiers" to build an Islamic army to wage holy war.

The others were identified as Patrick Abraham, Stanley Grant Phanor, Naudimar Herrera, Burson Augustin, Lyglenson Lemorin, and Rotschild Augustine.

Gonzales said that “the convergence of globalization and technology has created a new brand of terrorism. Today terrorist threats come from smaller more loosely defined cells not affiliated with al-Qaida but who are inspired by a violent jihadist message, and left unchecked these homegrown terrorists may prove to be as dangerous as groups like al-Qaida.”

Batiste allegedly met last December in a hotel room with someone posing as a representative of al-Qaida — someone law enforcement officials say was actually an agent of a country friendly to the United States.

The indictment said Batiste initially asked for "boots, uniforms, machine guns, radios, and vehicles," as well as $50,000 in cash, to help him build an "Islamic Army to wage jihad.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13497335/

Scary stuff.

[AEON]

Yes - very scary.

[Irvine511]

i suppose this is one good thing about the decentralization of Al-Qaeda -- when you have groups with little or no central command, and groups that are "inspired" by AQ as opposed to actually employed by them, then you get a good watering down of the talent pool, which makes them much easier to catch.

[ntalwar]

I don't know if it's election year fear mongering or the real deal.
No physical evidence existed, and if they had them under surveillance, I think they should have waited for them to acquire something instead of relying on wild ideas.

From CNN.com

Mothers of two of the indicted men denied reports that their sons were followers of Islam. The mothers told CNN that their sons are devout Christians who closely follow the teachings of the Bible and their group was nothing more than a religious study group.

At a Justice Department news conference Friday in Washington, Deputy FBI Director John Pistole described their plan as "more aspirational than operational."

[maycocksean]

Wow, I wondered who they tortured to get those guys?

Sorry. Just couldn't pass that one up.

[Irvine511]

it's just really sad that all threats, real or not, are going to be impossible to talk about without the following questions being raised:

1. how politically motivated?
2. was torture involved?

while all wars are, to some extent, wielded as political tools by both parties, it seems to me that, for Rove at least, this war has been nothing but a political tool.

[maycocksean]

Originally posted by Irvine511
it's just really sad that all threats, real or not, are going to be impossible to talk about without the following questions being raised:

1. how politically motivated?
2. was torture involved?

while all wars are, to some extent, wielded as political tools by both parties, it seems to me that, for Rove at least, this war has been nothing but a political tool.

Ain't that the truth.

[ntalwar]

Originally posted by Irvine511

while all wars are, to some extent, wielded as political tools by both parties, it seems to me that, for Rove at least, this war has been nothing but a political tool.

Yeah- I wonder why in this case, if the threat were indeed real, why they arrested them so soon. Keeping them under surveillance could have provided valuable clues about logistics and planning of such operations. In the recent Toronto arrests, the suspects were arrested only after they allegedly acquired material.

[Judah]

Yeah, i'll wait until more info gets out. As Irvine alluded, it's sad that now we're so cynical of our law-enforcement authorities that we actually have to wonder if this is only a PR stunt. They make such a huge splash about these things and many times the story just putters out (like the British case last month of the two suspected terrorists who turned out to be completely benign...one even got shot in the raid).

Here's more weird reports about this from CTV (Canadian Television website):

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/A...i_probe_060623

A man who called himself Brother Corey told CNN late Thursday that five of the men were his "brothers" and they belonged to a group called the "Seas of David."

He described the "Seas of David" as a religious group that blends the teachings of Christianity and Islam.

---------------

"Blends" the teachings of Christianity and Islam? Now there's a valiant attempt at bridging the gaps between the two religions.

It's getting nutty out there.

[Irvine511]

and keep in mind, it's entirely possible that there is nothing political about this.

but given Republican history -- Tom Ridge admitting, after he stepped down, that many of the "Orange Alerts" were near total fabrications, and the fact that they tended to take place right after something major happened for Kerry, like announcing a running mate or the whole Democratic Convention -- it's simply hard not to be suspicious.

[verte76]

It's sad that it's come to this, we have to be so careful about believing things the government says to us.

[trevster2k]

I trust no government anymore.

[INDY500]

Originally posted by ntalwar


Keeping them under surveillance could have provided valuable clues about logistics and planning of such operations.

Maybe if the New York Times wasn't printing every bit of classified information about U.S. surveillance programs they can get their hands on, law enforcement officials might show a little more patience.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by INDY500


Maybe if the New York Times wasn't printing every bit of classified information about U.S. surveillance programs they can get their hands on, law enforcement officials might show a little more patience.

would you rather not know your constitutional rights are being violated?

[ntalwar]

Originally posted by INDY500


Maybe if the New York Times wasn't printing every bit of classified information about U.S. surveillance programs they can get their hands on, law enforcement officials might show a little more patience.

Was that given as a reason by Gonzales? I don't think the NYT publishes details on specific investigations, but rather on general methods.

[A_Wanderer]

Originally posted by Irvine511
i suppose this is one good thing about the decentralization of Al-Qaeda -- when you have groups with little or no central command, and groups that are "inspired" by AQ as opposed to actually employed by them, then you get a good watering down of the talent pool, which makes them much easier to catch.

If history is anything to go by regular terrorists are generally dumb.

[INDY500]

Originally posted by Irvine511






would you rather not know your constitutional rights are being violated?

Privacy vs security. It's too nice of a weekend to open that can-of-worms.

[nbcrusader]

Originally posted by A_Wanderer
If history is anything to go by regular terrorists are generally dumb.

I have yet to see the news on the suspects, but I heard a comment on the radio that it was likely they couldn't find the Sears Tower.

[ntalwar]

An update:

Sears Tower Bomb Plot Case Falls Apart

MIAMI (Dec. 13) -- In a stinging defeat for the Bush administration, one of seven Miami men accused of plotting to join forces with al-Qaida to blow up Chicago's Sears Tower was acquitted Thursday, and the case against the rest ended in a hung jury.

Federal prosecutor Richard Gregorie said the government planned to retry the six next year, and the judge said a new jury would be picked starting Jan. 7.

The White House had seized on the case to illustrate the dangers of homegrown terrorism and trumpet the government's post-Sept. 11 success in infiltrating and smashing terrorism plots in their earliest stages.

Lyglenson Lemorin, 32, had been accused of being a "soldier" for alleged ringleader Narseal Batiste. He buried his face in his hands when his acquittal was read.

....

Defense lawyers contended that the informant and an overzealous FBI were responsible for pushing the alleged conspiracy along.

"This was all written, directed and produced by the FBI," said defense attorney Albert Levin.

[AchtungBono]

Originally posted by Irvine511






would you rather not know your constitutional rights are being violated?

I only know that these arrests ended up saving hundreds of lives. If the criminal's rights were violated.....so be it.
What rights do they have anyway if they wanted to destroy the very country that protects them?

You can't have it both ways.....it's like the guy who killed his parents and pleaded for mercy because he was an orphan......