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Old 03-01-2007, 02:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well that's what I'm curious about...

Are there set standards to clients like there are with employees?
I guess it would be a country's/state-jurisdiction's basic equality/human-rights laws.

Like what others are saying in previous posts, the kissing males being kicked out would have a great case (civil court or otherwise), i would think, if they could cite examples of kissing hetero-couples not being kicked out.

Similar to the cases mentioned in this story:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/compan...r-barrel_x.htm
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Old 03-01-2007, 02:39 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Irvine511
however, what would we say if he threw out a black man kissing a white woman? would that cause any legal repercussions?
I always think about this when these kinds of cases come up. It wasn't so long ago that my boyfriend and I would have been discriminated against in exactly this manner and people would have called it justifiable (actually, there probably still are places where we might not want to be too "obvious" but thankfully that hasn't been the case so far where we live). It's depressing that the rules of human decency don't extend to everyone.
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Old 03-01-2007, 03:14 PM   #23
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Originally posted by redhotswami
i wonder if 2 women would've been kicked out for kissing.
Bet you a hundred bucks they wouldn't. Actually it would all depend on the women wouldn't it. If they were bulldyke types I bet the guy would of kicked them out - but if they were hot...NO WAY!!!
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Old 03-01-2007, 05:42 PM   #24
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i dont like any public displays of affection. holding hands or having a small snog is not a big deal, but really, that's my opinion and it relates only to me. i dont really care if i see two people have sex in public. if they dont care, i'm not going to. i just wont do it myself. i cant bring myself to be bothered by what others do.

i reckon the guy in the suit is having himself on with his permanent loss of ability to enjoy life. sue yes, for discrimination, but not immeasurable claims like this. suing over personal distress is another issue though, and not one i disagree with. i just have trouble agreeing with it at certain times.
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:19 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Judah


Private businesses discriminate based on other criteria all the time: "no shoes, no shirt...noooo dice." Or whatever.

But, yeah, i don't think they can discriminate based on criteria that goes against state or federal statute, which, i hope, would include racial, religious, gender, etc., protections.

You are correct, Judah. People who go barefoot or don't wear shirts are not a "protected class". However, there are different levels of tests that apply to certain protected classes.

The highest level is called Strict Scrutiny and it is applied to classes such as Race or National Origin. Other classes, such as Sex/Gender or Age, enjoy less protection under the Intermediate Scrutiny test. And still other classes, such as Sexual Orientation, enjoy the least amount of protection under the 3rd test, rational review, which is normally easily overcome.

Most, if not all, of the 50 states have adopted some form of the U.S. Constitution's clauses that deal with Equal Protection.
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:26 PM   #26
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I hope the day where two dudes drunkenly making out in a (non-gay) bar goes entirely unnoticed comes real soon.

That's a very good point wondering if they would have been kicked out if they were both ladies.

I'd be willing to bet that two morbidly obese women sharing a kiss would have been told to leave, too.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:17 PM   #27
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This is ridiculous to me. Two gays should be able to kiss in a bar. Where's the harm?
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:07 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Judah


Would those owners rights extend just for sexual orientation or for other criteria also?
If taken fully then yes; sexual orientation, race, political beliefs, religion etc.

The customer is electing to enter the bar on the proviso that they abide by the owners enforced standards. Does this make this case of violence and discrimination okay - no.
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:09 PM   #29
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Originally posted by Irvine511




actually, i agree.

the owner is an idiot and a bigot, but he's perfectly entitled to run an idiotic and bigoted establishment.

however, what would we say if he threw out a black man kissing a white woman? would that cause any legal repercussions?
If the Klan wanted to open bars and enforced such a rule I wouldn't try and and use government mandated discrimination law to stop them. Of course people get a lot more touchy over race - but if we were to be consistent and even handed then that could happen.

Of course if that happened the media attention and picketing would be great.
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:12 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
If the Klan wanted to open bars and enforced such a rule I wouldn't try and and use government mandated discrimination law to stop them. Of course people get a lot more touchy over race - but if we were to be consistent and even handed then that could happen.

Of course if that happened the media attention and picketing would be great.
I agree. Discrimination in any form is disgusting, but a private business is a private business. Let them be found guilty in the court of public opinion.
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:12 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Judah

But, yeah, i don't think they can discriminate based on criteria that goes against state or federal statute, which, i hope, would include racial, religious, gender, etc., protections.
Government is a whole different thing; everybody pays taxes amd everybody deserves equal opportunity to government services. At the end of the day everybody is an owner.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:12 AM   #32
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Wasn't there a Denny's lawsuit a few years ago claiming discrimination against certain customers ? I believe Denny's lost, so maybe "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" doesn't really hold any more
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:32 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by toscano
Wasn't there a Denny's lawsuit a few years ago claiming discrimination against certain customers ? I believe Denny's lost, so maybe "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" doesn't really hold any more
Quote:
Still, the settlement underscores concern that racial discrimination survives 40 years after the 1964 Civil Rights Act and a decade after Denny's restaurants agreed in a landmark case to pay $46 million to settle claims of racial discrimination against patrons and to make dramatic changes in its policies.
[...]
Whatever the legal outcome, Cracker Barrel is embroiled in a potential public relations fiasco reminiscent of what Denny's faced and spent millions of dollars beyond the initial settlement to combat. "No brand can afford to be viewed in this negative way," says Steven Grover of the National Restaurant Association.
Was in the link Judah provided
http://www.usatoday.com/money/compa...er-barrel_x.htm
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Old 03-19-2007, 09:21 AM   #34
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Kansas City Star March 16th

COMMENTARY

Lesbian kiss falls flatter than a pancake

By MIKE HENDRICKS
Columnist

Just one kiss. That’s all it took — to get thrown out of the IHOP in Grandview.

“It was a kiss I would share with my uncle,” Blair Funk told me. Except it wasn’t her uncle she kissed. It was her honey, Eva Sandoval.

Two young women sharing a kiss didn’t seem inappropriate to the other couple in the restaurant booth that night, Jackie Smith and the woman with whom she shares her life, Toni Smith. But someone watching the scene was offended.

So later, the manager confronted them in the lobby and told them to get out.

The way Blair tells it, “He said, ‘I have to tell you, we’ve had some complaints about public displays of affection, and we’re a family restaurant. We can’t accept it, and we won’t accept it.’

“The way he worded it was like: We don’t accept you.”

These days it’s rare for gays and lesbians to be denied service in restaurants for acting like who they are. Blair assures me that she and Eva did nothing that wouldn’t have been appropriate for a man and a woman to do at a dinner date. No heavy makeout. No groping.

However, incidents like this one are not unheard of, and the people affected often can do nothing about it.

There is no federal law prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation. Neither Kansas nor Missouri are among the few states that protect gay people from being discriminated against in areas of employment, housing and public accommodations.

Kansas City does have an ordinance protecting gays, as do St. Louis, Columbia and University City. But if you’re anywhere else in Missouri and you’re gay, you can legally be denied service in restaurant. Landlords can refuse to rent you a place to live.

You can even be canned from your job on the suspicion that you’re romantically inclined toward members of your own sex.

“Many people are shocked to hear that people can be fired from their jobs for being gay or being perceived to be gay,” says Julie Brueggemann, executive director of the Missouri gay rights group Promo.

That would change if bills pending in Kansas and Missouri would ever pass. It’s only the first year for Senate Bill 163 in Kansas. But the so-called Missouri Nondiscrimination Act, House Bill 819, has been up time and again.

And as in past years, it has almost zero chance in Jefferson City, says Rep. Jeneé Lowe, a Kansas City Democrat, the bill’s sponsor.

“It’s surprising to me,” Lowe says, “how many people think there’s federal legislation. But there is no law.”

No law, but there is power in public opinion. So the night that she and her friends were evicted from the restaurant, Jackie Smith started tapping furiously on her computer keyboard.

E-mails to the media yielded a TV report on Fox 4, as well as a call from me.

Promo and other civil rights groups responded with support. IHOP was apologetic.

“Thank you for taking the time to contact us concerning your experience at the IHOP in Grandview,” began the letter from someone identifying himself as the guest services representative at the company’s headquarters in Glendale, Calif.

“We are sorry to learn of the difficulties you encountered at this location. Please be assured that the matter will be shared with the proper individuals to address your concerns.”

When I called the Grandview restaurant for comment I was told to ring the company headquarters. But the P.R. director there failed to return my phone calls. However, I can tell you that the restaurant chain wants Blair, Eva, Jackie and Toni to come back for pancakes sometime.

“It is our hope,” the guest services rep wrote, “that you will once again allow us to earn your patronage.”

Jackie isn’t ruling it out entirely.

“But it’s not likely,” she said.
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Old 03-19-2007, 09:30 AM   #35
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Apalling.
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Old 03-19-2007, 09:35 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen

There is no federal law prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation. Neither Kansas nor Missouri are among the few states that protect gay people from being discriminated against in areas of employment, housing and public accommodations.

Kansas City does have an ordinance protecting gays, as do St. Louis, Columbia and University City. But if you’re anywhere else in Missouri and you’re gay, you can legally be denied service in restaurant. Landlords can refuse to rent you a place to live.

You can even be canned from your job on the suspicion that you’re romantically inclined toward members of your own sex.


quite right.

and this is, ultimately, the most important thing.

people who mock gay people for comparing their struggle to the civil rights movement, or who who think that gay people have little to complain about because the gays they see are wealthy older men living in the West Village who vacation in Anguilla, really aren't aware of what it's like to be a gay person in non-coastal America and the fact that it is still perfectly, 100% legal to discriminate against people if you should so choose, becuase, of course, we don't want to trample on anyone's right to religious beliefs/expression. it's amazing when someone's religiously sanctioned right to discriminate trumps someone's right not to be fired from a job on the basis of sexual orientation.
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Old 03-19-2007, 09:51 AM   #37
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I agree that religious beliefs are part of it (but many religious people believe differently, I do), but I also believe that part of it is that many people believe that being gay is a choice-whereas you don't choose to be black, a female, etc. I don't believe that and I think it's a complete crock to justify it based upon that belief. There needs to be legal protection- it's absolutely outrageous that people can be fired from jobs or denied employment or housing or anything. Kissing in an IHOP or a pub is just the beginning in the whole continuum.
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Old 03-19-2007, 09:58 AM   #38
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Dammit MrsSpringsteen I was going to post that article.
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Old 03-19-2007, 11:07 AM   #39
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Re: Hell No, No Gay Kissing In My Pub

Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
in the Leather District because he was kissing another man.
maybe the leather district isn't the best place to have a bar if you don't want men kissing each other
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Old 03-19-2007, 11:22 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami
i wonder if 2 women would've been kicked out for kissing.

Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
More likely they would have been given free drinks.


Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
depends if they were hot or not.
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