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Old 04-17-2003, 06:37 AM   #1
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Has the US anything to hide?

Wouldn't it be better if some more neutral than the US would find the WMDs?

Quote:
UN ponders inspectors' return
Hans Blix says inspectors are ready to go back
The United Nations has asked for a fresh report from its chief weapons inspector Hans Blix as it considers sending teams back to Iraq.

A majority of the Security Council - including the Washington's main war ally Britain - favours resuming the UN searches for Saddam Hussein's alleged weapons of mass destruction.

But correspondents say the United States has so far resisted the return of the UN inspectors, who were withdrawn from Iraq shortly before the US-led coalition started bombing Baghdad.

A couple of people of the Unmovic staff have been approached and asked to join the American team but they have so far declined
Ewen Buchanan
Washington has deployed its own teams to look for weapons, which it cited as the key reason for launching war.

Providing evidence of banned arms is seen as crucial for justifying the decision to attack Iraq, but so far there have been no confirmed finds of illicit materials.

BBC Article "UN ponders inspectors' return"
If only the US can find the WMDs there could be allways this bitter taste of cheating...

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Old 04-17-2003, 08:22 AM   #2
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weve found more WMDs in 27 days than Mr. Hans "I must have very poor vision" Blix has in 12 years.

thank u-
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Old 04-17-2003, 08:35 AM   #3
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Diamond: first mr. Blix had no 12 Years time to search - 2nd please substract the things the US thought that they found it but it was harmless in the end.

Klaus

p.s. thanks for not posting another G.W.B. picture - i allready got a feeling how some people feel in ocuntries where pictures of the beloved leader are in every room
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Old 04-17-2003, 08:41 AM   #4
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I recall hearing that over the course of weapons inspections some 4000 rounds of chemical or biological amunition were turned over.
this could be wrong...I did hear some pretty impressive figures on TV from a former weapons inspector....4000 *something* was in there plus some more figures

yes...I am the king of vague, unreferenced posts
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Old 04-17-2003, 09:14 AM   #5
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Old 04-17-2003, 11:30 AM   #6
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hmmmm.....cigars
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Old 04-17-2003, 11:42 AM   #7
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They found chemical suits, traces of nerve gas, but no big time storages of WMDs. The nerve gas stuff made me nervous. That stuff is pretty lethal.
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Old 04-17-2003, 12:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
weve found more WMDs in 27 days than Mr. Hans "I must have very poor vision" Blix has in 12 years.
How soon we forget... This is why the media prints so many unfounded stories of found WMDs, because people will get excited and then not follow up so they take it as truth.

But to answer the original question...Yes I believe someone neutral should come in and do the investigations. I don't trust GW.
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Old 04-17-2003, 01:18 PM   #9
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hey, they should let ANYONE who wants to look for them to come on in......come on, let's organize an interference hunting party and go over there!

seriously though, whoever looks for them, they will find them, given time. all that iraq had to do is bury one bunker full of them in the middle of the desert, and it will take months to find them.

for me, this was the key point of the war, that they did in fact have them and denied it.
unless I am completely wrong, they will find them eventually.

and didn't they find 4 mobile production trucks buried under the desert?
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Old 04-17-2003, 06:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
But to answer the original question...Yes I believe someone neutral should come in and do the investigations. I don't trust GW.
Ditto.

Angela
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Old 04-23-2003, 04:20 AM   #11
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A interesting article about US/UN controlled weapon inspections:

Banishing Hans Blix
Hans Blix may not dance to Washington's tune, but that is precisely why
his word on the presence of unconventional weapons in Baghdad is so
valuable.

full story at: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/23/op...23WED1.html?th
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Old 04-23-2003, 04:51 AM   #12
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Klaus,

Could you please post the whole article, for those not registered at the New York Times? Thank you.

Marty
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Old 04-23-2003, 06:24 AM   #13
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Popmartijn:

i'll do so, i get no route to host of nytimes.com at the moment - i'll try again later
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Old 04-23-2003, 06:45 AM   #14
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Here you go,
Banishing Hans Blix
aving won a military victory in Iraq without the support of the United Nations, the Bush administration now seems determined to search for Baghdad's unconventional weapons without help from Hans Blix and his team of international inspectors. That is too bad. The hunt for these weapons would be aided by the presence of independent experts, and the credibility of any discoveries would be much enhanced if they were confirmed by the U.N.

Mr. Blix said yesterday that his arms control specialists could return to Iraq in two weeks and work cooperatively with Americans now in the field. As he spoke, the White House made plain that it opposed further U.N. involvement in disarming Iraq.

America's military victory in Iraq has transformed the problem of discovering and dismantling any prohibited Iraqi weapons. The concealment efforts that long thwarted investigators are over. So is any immediate danger of Iraq using biological or chemical arms. But the central question of whether Iraq had active unconventional weapons programs still remains. None have yet been found by American or British troops. This is no small matter, given Washington's emphasis on Iraq's arms as the primary reason for going to war.

The White House dislikes Mr. Blix for his even-handed reports to the Security Council last winter. Although he repeatedly pointed to Iraq's failure to provide the full cooperation required of it, he never produced the irrefutable evidence of Iraq's cheating that the administration wanted. Now Washington is learning how hard it is to come up with such evidence without active cooperation from Iraqi scientists. Washington's anger is misplaced. Its quarrel was with France, Russia and Germany, not U.N. inspectors. Encouragingly, Paris has now softened its differences with Washington by proposing an early suspension of sanctions against Iraq.

Mr. Blix, an international civil servant, organized a capable inspections program in the face of Iraqi obstruction and American sniping. It was never his job to provide grist for Washington's diplomacy or to decide between war and peace. He should not become a barrier to bringing back U.N. inspectors, especially since he is retiring in June.

Yet just when his experts would be free to work unimpeded, they are being rebuffed by Washington, which wrongly believes that an American-run weapons search can be as credible as a U.N. effort. Mr. Blix and his successors may not dance to Washington's tune, but that is precisely why their word on these matters is so valuable.
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Old 04-23-2003, 01:06 PM   #15
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thanks Scarletwine
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Old 04-24-2003, 03:04 AM   #16
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After the UNs failure throughout the 1990s in regards to searching for WMD plus the influence France could bring on any UN inspection process to frustrate the attempts to find the weopons, its a wise choice that Bush has made to for go the UN inspectors at the current time. This is a matter of national security and the UNs failures and political bias towards Saddam have destroyed much of any credibility they once had.
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Old 04-24-2003, 03:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
After the UNs failure throughout the 1990s in regards to searching for WMD plus the influence France could bring on any UN inspection process to frustrate the attempts to find the weopons, its a wise choice that Bush has made to for go the UN inspectors at the current time. This is a matter of national security and the UNs failures and political bias towards Saddam have destroyed much of any credibility they once had.
What was the failure of the UN inspections throughout the 1990s? FYI, the inspectors discovered and destroyed more weapons than were destroyed during the first Gulf War. I wouldn't call that a failure.
And why would you expect France to frustrate attempts to find weapons?
And why do you think the inspectors have/had a bias towards Saddam?
All they did was look for those WMD's, not make political statements. That was the job of the members of the Security Council.

Should Bush go forward with this I would be very sceptical should they find any weapons. The reason to go with this war was Saddam's supposed possession of WMD. Until now they haven't found any. Now the USA is going to look for them alone and suddenly they should pop up? Hmm, suspiciously convenient, isn't it? Of course it might be that they really found WMD's, but their refusal to let a third party check it with them does create many doubts.
BTW, how is this a matter of national security for the USA? Saddam's gone, right? So what's the specific security threat here? Is it that there may be WMD's hidden? Why doesn't an international coalition have the duty to look for this? If the concern for the USA is that these supposed WMD's fall in the hands of terrorist then it's not just a case of national security for the USA alone, but for the whole world. So the whole world should help to find these weapons.

You cannot first invade claiming anUN resolution is backing you up on this and then ignoring said UN resolutions.

C ya!

Marty
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Old 04-24-2003, 03:58 AM   #18
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STING2: so you think France would block the search of UN inspectors just because of the fun of it?

France had a financial benefit from the no war situation with saddam (as US companies now have a benefit from the war-situation) but do you really think france would veto actions of UNMOVIC?
That mould make them as trustworthy as US officials who "enforced UN resolutions" and are now unwilling to let UN do their job.
US does now what Saddam did the for years: they don't let UNMOVIC inside the Iraq.
I could see the motivation of Saddam:
Hiding his WMDs
But what's the motivation of the US? Let's hope it's not faking proofs again to justify the war.

Do you really think that those people there who were fooled several times by the US don't think that US might do that again? (after G.W. senior faked stuff to legitimate his Gulf War, after they faked satelite photos to get their military bases in saudi arabia, after G.B. and US faked stuff to convince UN to make a new resolution that would clearly legitimate this move?

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Old 04-24-2003, 04:21 AM   #19
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Hello,

This is an interesting article I read in the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com):

Quote:
More than half of Iraq's top 'weapons sites' searched with no result
By Pauline Jelinek, Associated Press, 04/23/03


WASHINGTON -- American forces are changing their search strategy after coming up empty at most of the top suspected weapons sites in Iraq, officials said Wednesday.

And the White House appeared to be trying to scale back expectations that weapons of mass destruction will be found.

Troops on the ground have searched more than 80 sites that prewar U.S. intelligence judged the most likely hiding places for chemical and biological weapons as well as evidence of an Iraqi nuclear program, Defense Department officials said on condition of anonymity.

There are more than 1,000 suspected sites but 100 or so were the searchers' top priority.

Some analysis is pending on some substances found. But finding no stockpiles of chemical or biological agents after more than a month into the campaign, teams are now setting aside the search list and deciding where to go more on the basis of new information from Iraqis, three defense officials said Wednesday.

"We did have several hundred sites that we had some history of intelligence on that we were going to exploit," said Lt. Gen. David McKiernan, commander of land forces in Iraq. "This regime over the last decade has been pretty good at hiding material and moving it around, so it was no surprise to any of us that many of these sites that we've already exploited have not necessarily turned up the material."

Two other officials said that in recent days officials have realized the list is of questionable value because of the ability of the Iraqis to destroy or remove weapons and equipment.

Although U.S. officials say the war is not over, more forces are headed home. The aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman and its battle group of 11 ships has been released from wartime duty and is scheduled to arrive at its home port of Norfolk, Va., in May, officials said Wednesday. The Truman left Norfolk Dec. 5 and originally was to complete its sea duty in early June.

The Truman is now in the Mediterranean Sea, along with the USS Theodore Roosevelt carrier battle group. Two other carriers, the USS Kitty Hawk and the USS Constellation, left the Persian Gulf last week. The only carrier now in the Gulf is the USS Nimitz.

Also, two of the three Marine Expeditionary Units that fought in Iraq are preparing to head home. The 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit will soon be headed back to Camp Lejeune, N.C., and the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit will follow a short time later en route home to Camp Pendleton, Calif., officials said. Both units have about 2,200 people.

The sites in Iraq searched for chemical and biological weapons have included mosques, homes, factories and government ministries. In some cases teams arrived to find buildings completely empty -- swept of any evidence, one official said.

One search team also interviewed an Iraqi scientist last week who said some weapons were moved to Syria and others were destroyed before the war. His account has not yet been verified.

McKiernan called the search "ad hoc" now, meaning troops will move on information culled from various intelligence, which could include captured Iraqis, documents and other sources.

Another official said the Pentagon still intends eventually to search all of the more than 1,000 possible sites, which he called "guesses" based on satellite data, other surveillance, information gathered by United Nations weapons inspectors over the years, from Iraqi defectors and elsewhere.

The prewar list did not reflect an intelligence failure, he said. But rather, moving to the new system is a natural evolution of the hunt, now that American officials are inside Iraq and can speak to Iraqis who have knowledge of weapons programs.

The existence of weapons of mass destruction -- and goal of disarming Iraq -- were the mains reasons given by the administration for the war, which did not get U.N. approval.

Hans Blix, the U.N.'s chief weapons inspector, commented Tuesday on the lack of U.S. findings.

"It is conspicuous that so far they have not stumbled upon anything," he said in New York.

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said Tuesday there was "no question we remain confident that WMD (weapons of mass destruction) will found."

On Wednesday he said the president still believes weapons exist there. Asked what will happen if none are found, he said "the chances of success depend not on finding something by bumping into it," but on information provided by Iraqis involved in the programs.

Asked if he meant searches might not find the weapons but rather some kind of evidence they previously existed, Fleischer said: "There are no changes in the American position. We have high confidence that Iraq did indeed have weapons of mass destruction ... that indeed will be found in whatever form it is."
So does this mean it's also a failure of the USA that they don't find anything? As the article says, the USA attacked Iraq because it claimed Iraq was hiding WMD. Now they cannot find anything (and remember, unlike during the 3 months the UN inspectors were given by the USA last year, they don't need to depend on Iraqi cooperation, they are in control in Iraq right now) and are even trying to scale back expectations that they ever find those rumoured WMD.
I hope you understand why I'm sceptical should WMD's be found all of a sudden by US people without any checks by UN inspectors.

C ya!

Marty
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Old 04-24-2003, 12:31 PM   #20
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I don't understand why they just don't let the UN have a bigger role!

it's annoying
is bush really so arrogant and childish?

[whine]but we did it...we beat them...*whine*...I wanna disarm....no bad UN...me me me[/whine]
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