Half-Head Bob is locked up! Are you sleeping better?

[STING2]

Anitrium,

I think most women and girls in Afghanistan disagree with you. The USA will stay as long as there is a need for us to be there or in the region. Many said the USA would not stay the long haul in Bosnia and Kosovo, but the USA is still there.

 

[anitram]

STING, have you been to Bosnia prior to the war, during the war, and then recently? Because I have. Bosnia is not a viable state such as it is right now. It is only 'free' as a technicality, there is corruption in every corner, there is organized crime, and people are trying to get out to the west, or neighbouring Croatia like there is no tomorrow. LIfe in Bosnia stinks save for the few who have excelled in criminal conduct and took advantage of the war to make money. Most of the rest of the people will tell you that their lives during repressive communism were fantastic compared to now. You just can't imagine the overwhelming sadness of the place that has lost its past, present and future. It is not like you think over there - it's not so black and white and additive. The Bosnia we know is dead, we buried it in 1992. It's not there and it will never be there again.

Just because people aren't openly shooting at each other, or aiming grenades at the next town over doesn't mean that things are good, or that people are 'free' as we perceive freedom to be, or that the democracy is working, or on the way to working. None of this is true - people in the west just tell themselves that so they can sleep at night, self-satisfied.

 

[Dreadsox]

And I think we're even more naive if we truly believe that Bush and Co. are interested at all in staying in Afghanistan for the long haul.

Interesting comment. During the election Bush firmly campaigned that the United States Military is not designed for Nation Building. One thing he believed at the time was that it was not the role of the military to do these things.

9/11 and the move into Afghanistan changed that. It was not what he wanted. It seems from reading the book "Bush at War" at some point he was convinced by Condi Rice and Colin Powell that this would be necessary if they were going to use ground troops and not cruise missles. IT is a great book if you areinto the politics behind things.

Peace

 

[STING2]

Anitram,

Most people in Bosnia would not prefer the conditions of 1991-1995 when 250,000 people were killed to conditions now. I've never stated that things in Bosnia today are perfect at all. I know what they would be like if we picked up and left. Economic and Political development takes time with setbacks happening from time to time, or long periods of simply muddling through. But the fact is that the potential is there for improvement and will continue to be there as long as fighting does not erupt which it most likely will not as long as US and NATO forces remain in the area.

If you believed that with the USA in the region, Bosnia would turn into California, I'm sorry, it does not work that way, economic and political development take time. Many of the complaints you have listed are not exclusive to Bosnia. Several other former Communist countries have experienced similar hardships currently and will continue to do so in the future. Its taken the USA over 200 years to get to where it is today. It will take Bosnia time to develop economically and politically as well. But the prospects for doing so are better than they ever have in history, unless you believe communist dictatorship would be more efficient in achieving wealth and a standard of living that the USA and other countries have.

The only thing I mentioned about Bosnia in reference to your comment about Afghanistan was that US troops were still in Bosnia although people had claim the US would leave soon after they came in, which is the same claim your making about Afghanistan. Bosnia and Kosovo are perfect examples that is not so.

 

[STING2]

Dreadsox,

Is that book "Bush At War" by Bob Woodward? The reason I ask is that Bob Woodwards book on the first Bush Sr. Administration was considered inaccurate and that both Colin Powel and Rumsfeld consider this current book by Woodward to have inaccuracies as well.