A_Wanderer said:
Americans are not better people than the rest of the world, you are filled with your share of bad folk.
You are not beyond repproach and the idea that America should be smacks of elitism and a belief in American international exceptionalism. You can however differentiate your country by openly trying these individuals and punishing them for what they did and ensuring that it does not happen again in an transparent manner.
Abu Ghraib pictures were taken over the course of a few days be the same group of individuals, it is clear from the investigation that Karpinsky did not run a proper chain of command and that it was a failure in leadership that enabled it to happen.
There has been no evidence presented that the particular things that happened at Abu Ghraib were sanctioned by anybody. It was abuse of prisoners, it took away their dignity and it has flamed international hatred of the US ~ if it was run to get information then it has to have been one of the dumbest means of getting informaton from a cost/benefit perspective. I mean your intelligence guys must have really been off their game if they allowed the guards to retain the pictures knowing full well the damage that it could do if it was ever found. But it was found, and the millitary announced to the public about infractions against prisoners, and they investigated what was going on and commisioned a widespread investigation, and then the pictures got to the media, and then the media gave you all a great bit of self-flagellation for a great long while.
Sigh. If you think I am an elitist who thinks Americans are better than other people, you are dead wrong. Not only do I have the right to criticize my country, I have earned that right. I have the right to hold my country to the standard it advertises. That is all.
We are not beyond reproach. But if a country sets itself up as a beacon of freedom, human rights, then it damn well better behave in that manner. I am terribly concerned with what my country does. I would like to proud of it again.
I cannot speak for other countries. I can speak for my own.
Our intelligence is horrible. More than that, we have leaders (and always have) who choose only the intelligence (what a misuse of a word) that bolsters their position and ignores the rest. We have a President whose idea (in his own words) of persuasion is just to keep repeating the same things over and over again as if repetition is truth. We have an administration who likes to swagger instead of thinking a situation through. We have squandered our influence and we do have influence.
Many of our populace are undereducated , underinformedthrough their own fault. We are bombarded with information, but are often incapable of analysis. We are mentally lazy. We were given a jewel of a democracy and do not use it wisely. We are often xenophobic. We do not know jackshit about the rest of the world and precious little about our own. We strut under the idea, the flag of America. But we have the opportunity.
I want us to cringe about Abu Ghraib. I don't want us to make excuses. I want us to think about what we do in the name of interrogation. I want us to question whether that makes us more secure or just lets us celebrate our aggression.
You call it elitist to want to live up to the promise we hold out. So be it. But no other country in recent history has held out the same promise. America is in a unique position, if not made up of unique people. We have the resources to do better (for now) and I'd hate to waste it. Like it or not, people watch America and hold us to a higher standard. I want to be held to that standard. I'm not afraid of that standard. If I am falling for a myth, it's a myth I like.
(And PS, we are famous for widespread investigations that do not lead anywhere. We talk the talk....Our authorities are almost always cleared. When have we ever seen high level accountability for anything--oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that blowjob thing a few years back--oh yeah, that's right, it was lying under oath about a blowjob).
Yeah. I'm a cynic. Scratch a cynic and underneath you find a frustrated idealist.
), but I generally agree with A_Wanderer. We need to investigate reports of abuse and keep with Geneva conventions, but 10 reported (not yet confirmed) compared to a gulag, that's just absurd. 
Confused as to how 'not doing it' will still have most Muslims accusing you of disrespect.
