Guantanamo Bay: "My Hell In Camp X-Ray" - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-12-2004, 11:51 AM   #1
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
DrTeeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Q continuum
Posts: 4,770
Local Time: 06:39 PM
Guantanamo Bay: "My Hell In Camp X-Ray"

Here's the story of one of the five British prisoners at Guantanamo Bay who were released today (March 12th). Normally I'd quote the most interesting parts but then I might as well quote the entire article. The story is absolutely revolting and if all of this is true, the people in charge have really really really gone over the edge, and that's putting it mildly.

From the Daily Mirror

Quote:
Jamal al-Harith, 37, who arrived home three days ago after two years of confinement, is the first detainee to lift the lid on the US regime in Cuba's Camp X-Ray and Camp Delta.
__________________

DrTeeth is offline  
Old 03-12-2004, 12:03 PM   #2
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 09:39 AM
Definitely a horrific story. What would you think if any of the claims were untrue?
__________________

nbcrusader is offline  
Old 03-12-2004, 12:08 PM   #3
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 05:39 PM
That is horrifying beyond belief.

This man is completely innocent and yet he was imprisoned in these barbaric conditions for over two years. It scares me to think how many other innocent people might be imprisoned there, who aren't fortunate enough to have people at home fighting for their release.
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 03-12-2004, 01:09 PM   #4
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 05:39 PM
This is awful.
verte76 is offline  
Old 03-12-2004, 04:31 PM   #5
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 12:39 PM
[Q]LONDON (Reuters) - Secretary of State Colin Powell said on Friday he did not believe accusations by a recently freed British inmate of Guantanamo Bay prison camp that he had been treated in an inhuman fashion.
Jamal al Harith, the first of five Britons to go free on Tuesday told the Daily Mirror newspaper in an interview published on Friday that animals in the prison camp were given better treatment than inmates.

But Powell, in a taped interview conducted in Washington and broadcast on ITV television, denied that the detainees, held for two years without charge, had been treated badly or, as al Harith alleged, beaten.

"I think that unlikely," said Powell. "We don't abuse people who are in our care. I think we have discharged all of our obligations under the Geneva Convention to treat people in our custody, our detainees, in a very humanitarian way."

Powell also defended holding the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, also called Camp X-Ray, for such a long time.

"We think it was fully justified by the danger we were facing. And then now we are in the process of releasing all of those who it is clear there will be no charges on and they no longer pose any kind of a threat or danger to us," Powell said.

A further four Britons remain at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Washington says they are more dangerous than the five it decided to release.

Most of the prisoners at Guantanamo were captured in Afghanistan following the 2001 U.S.-led invasion aimed at rooting out Islamist militants suspected by Washington of launching September 2001 attacks on the United States. [/Q]
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 03-12-2004, 04:45 PM   #6
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 05:39 PM
Given that the majority of the men released this week have not been charged with any form of criminal activity, I wonder how the US government can have the audacity to claim people detained in Guantanamo Bay can be detained indefinitely without a fair trial.

These people were detained in horrendous conditions for over two years for no reason at all - how many more prisoners are there simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time? How many more innocent people are being detained with no prospect of release or a fair trial?
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 03-13-2004, 09:22 AM   #7
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 04:39 AM
Why doesn't America do what it prides itself on nbc, and prove that these are definitely not true? It seems cynicism is put on which ever might challenge certain beliefs. Even if this guy is either lying or exaggerating, so what? He has been locked up for 2 years for doing NOTHING! Let him be as miserable and mad as he wants, and if that means lying as well so be it. That is his moral wrongdoing to decide, not ours. He has lost 2 years of his life, at BEST. At WORST he has been tortured. And tortured for nothing. In the best case scenario, this is shocking. And there is too much complacency over it all.

Have you heard of an Australian called David Hicks? Add him to this list. The man is certainly not a trusty and appearingly likeable fellow, he has had training with terrorists. But he has committed no crime against America and is currently locked up there too. In defence of his situation, someone said your military is giving him some of his home comforts, like a jar of fucking vegemite is going to cheer him up and make it all ok!

To look straight away to the possibility this might be lies, is really grasping at straws. Is there nothing else to look at first? To read of this and think well, yeah this looks about 100% bad is not good....but perhaps the guy is lying!

Honestly, it is time America woke up. What the hell is your government doing? I am not some hippy liberal, republican bashing, Bush hater. I dont understand why this doesn't enrage everyone. Freedom and democracy and all that, my arse.

__________________
<a href=https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 03-13-2004, 10:57 AM   #8
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 17,733
Local Time: 01:39 PM
Agree with everything stated above by AH. Sounds like a lot of excusing the inexcusable.
anitram is online now  
Old 03-13-2004, 11:23 AM   #9
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Why doesn't America do what it prides itself on nbc, and prove that these are definitely not true? It seems cynicism is put on which ever might challenge certain beliefs. Even if this guy is either lying or exaggerating, so what? He has been locked up for 2 years for doing NOTHING! Let him be as miserable and mad as he wants, and if that means lying as well so be it. That is his moral wrongdoing to decide, not ours. He has lost 2 years of his life, at BEST. At WORST he has been tortured. And tortured for nothing. In the best case scenario, this is shocking. And there is too much complacency over it all.

Have you heard of an Australian called David Hicks? Add him to this list. The man is certainly not a trusty and appearingly likeable fellow, he has had training with terrorists. But he has committed no crime against America and is currently locked up there too. In defence of his situation, someone said your military is giving him some of his home comforts, like a jar of fucking vegemite is going to cheer him up and make it all ok!

To look straight away to the possibility this might be lies, is really grasping at straws. Is there nothing else to look at first? To read of this and think well, yeah this looks about 100% bad is not good....but perhaps the guy is lying!

Honestly, it is time America woke up. What the hell is your government doing? I am not some hippy liberal, republican bashing, Bush hater. I dont understand why this doesn't enrage everyone. Freedom and democracy and all that, my arse.

Excellent post.

I watched a tv interview with this man last night, and even if you only take into account what we know is true (ie that the prisoners were kept in chain-fenced cells with no protection from the elements/animals/insetcs, weren't allowed to exercise sufficiently, were denied proper bathroom facilities, were often kept handcuffed and hooded, etc) it's horrifying enough. When you realise that this man and several of the others who were released this week were absolutely innocent, it's even more horrifying. And when you add in the way this man says he was treated when imprisoned there, it's horrifying beyond belief.

I don't understand why people (not specifically anyone here, just a general comment) have to defend their government even when it's blatantly obvious they have done something wrong. If you believe that in general your government is good then you shouldn't be afraid to criticise them when they're wrong.
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 03-14-2004, 01:00 AM   #10
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 04:39 AM
Thanks guys. I was a little annoyed and it was really late when I wrote that so it's not terribly cohesive lol. Just to add though, the rant wasn't at you nbc, your reply got me thinking about everything I feel is wrong with the situation, but not you specifically. Hope it didn't look that way.
__________________
<a href=https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 03-15-2004, 09:38 AM   #11
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,225
Local Time: 11:39 AM
Quote:
denied that the detainees, held for two years without charge, had been treated badly
Just the fact alone that an innocent man was held for two years without charge in these conditions is what I would call "being treated badly". Just the facts alone of where these men sleep I would call inhumane. I've lost a lot of respect for Powell in the last year or so and his defending this just eliminated any respect I had left.

I would hope that somehow Bush, Powell and this administration would pay for their sins during their life here, but somehow I never see it happening.
BVS is offline  
Old 03-15-2004, 06:09 PM   #12
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,782
Local Time: 12:39 PM
On the other end, I must ask how credible "The Daily Mirror" is? It appears to be a tabloid newspaper, perhaps not so different than a Hearst newspaper back in the day. I *wish* this, perhaps, could have been put in a more credible newspaper, but, looking at the Mirror's history, it is likely sensational on purpose.

But there is that looming question: what to do with a camp full of people that the U.S. has little intention of ever releasing, but can't just kill randomly? After all, if they didn't have terrorists before, I'm sure they've created some in the camp.

I guess it always boils down to that "exit strategy," which the U.S. seemingly hasn't ever come up with.

Melon
melon is offline  
Old 03-15-2004, 06:52 PM   #13
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Just the fact alone that an innocent man was held for two years without charge in these conditions is what I would call "being treated badly". Just the facts alone of where these men sleep I would call inhumane. I've lost a lot of respect for Powell in the last year or so and his defending this just eliminated any respect I had left.

I would hope that somehow Bush, Powell and this administration would pay for their sins during their life here, but somehow I never see it happening.
I would hope someday that those that do not reconize it now, will recognize the massive accomplishments and contributions these men have made to this country and this world. 50 million people have been set free from two of the most evil and totalitarian dictatorships in history. Security and Stability in the Persian Gulf Area has never been this good now that Saddam and his regime have been removed. This administration has done more than any other administration in history to combat and defeat terrorism.

I would never call the enforcement of UN resolutions, building security and stability in the Persian Gulf Region, combating and imprisoning terrorist and preventing the next 9/11 to be a sin.

Its unfortunate that the man was innocent and held for two years. But this is a war and it is impossible to 100% prevent such mistakes from occuring. There are many dangerous people out there and I want my government to do everything in its power to prevent the next 9/11. Virtually every Police department in every city around the world has held someone that is innocent at what time or another.
STING2 is offline  
Old 03-15-2004, 09:16 PM   #14
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,225
Local Time: 11:39 AM
Quote:

Its unfortunate that the man was innocent and held for two years. But this is a war and it is impossible to 100% prevent such mistakes from occuring. There are many dangerous people out there and I want my government to do everything in its power to prevent the next 9/11. Virtually every Police department in every city around the world has held someone that is innocent at what time or another. [/B]
Yes but they were charged and were given due process, but hey I guess by any means neccessary, right?
BVS is offline  
Old 03-15-2004, 10:46 PM   #15
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Yes but they were charged and were given due process, but hey I guess by any means neccessary, right?
By the the best means to insure the safety and security of the country.
STING2 is offline  
Old 03-16-2004, 01:12 AM   #16
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 04:39 AM
I can't help thinking of Minority Report when this topic comes up. It seems like the American gov't is playing pre-crime, of which of course there is no such thing. It blatantly goes against innocent until proven guilty. These men, all individuals, are suffering in the name of security for a nation of equal individuals in terms of rights and so on.
I know folks like you STING, are looking at the bigger picture and that is cool, it seems there is little justification when it comes down to this small picture though because your freedom shouldn't come at the cost of someone else's.
__________________
<a href=https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 03-16-2004, 03:13 AM   #17
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,044
Local Time: 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


By the the best means to insure the safety and security of the country.
this would basically mean that any country can do whatever it feels it takes to secure its safety

this can't be true, can it?

especially since views on who the enemy is
and what may be considered as necessary to combat him
seems to differ from country to country

the world would become an even more depressing place than it already is at times
__________________
“Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.”
~Frank Zappa
Salome is offline  
Old 03-16-2004, 05:37 AM   #18
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
On the other end, I must ask how credible "The Daily Mirror" is? It appears to be a tabloid newspaper, perhaps not so different than a Hearst newspaper back in the day.
Actually the Mirror isn't as "bad" as you'd expect a tabloid paper to be. In the last few years it's undergone something of a tranformation and it's actually won several awards for its journalism. It's not the best newspaper, but compared to the typical tabloids like the Sun and the Star it's fantastic.

Three of the released prisoners were interviewed by the Observer this weekend, which is perhaps a more credible broadsheet paper.

Quote:
'They'd herded maybe 300 of us into each container, the type you get on ordinary lorries, packed in so tightly our knees were against our chests, and almost immediately we started to suffocate. We lived because someone made holes with a machine gun, though they were shooting low and still more died from the bullets. When we got out, about 20 in each container were still alive.'
Quote:
'There were people with horrific injuries - limbs that had been shot off and nothing was done. I'll never forget one Arab who was missing half his jaw. For 10 days until his death he was screaming and crying continuously, begging to be killed.
Quote:
'We were covered with lice. All day long you were scratching, scratching. I was bleeding from my chest, my head.' Iqbal adds: 'We lost so much weight that if I stood up I could carry water in the gap between my collar bones and my flesh.'
Quote:
'A special forces guy sat there holding a gun to my temple, a 9mm pistol. He said if I made any movement he'd blow my head off.'
Quote:
Yet all witnessed or experienced brutality, especially from Guantanamo's own riot squad, the Extreme Reaction Force. Its acronym has led to a new verb peculiar to Guantanamo detainees: 'ERF-ing.' To be ERFed, says Rasul, means to be slammed on the floor by a soldier wielding a riot shield, pinned to the ground and assaulted.
The full article is at: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...168937,00.html
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 03-16-2004, 01:48 PM   #19
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Rono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 6,163
Local Time: 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


By the the best means to insure the safety and security of the country.
So it is right to sacrifice inocent people for your feelings of safety ?
Rono is offline  
Old 03-16-2004, 07:01 PM   #20
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,876
Local Time: 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
this would basically mean that any country can do whatever it feels it takes to secure its safety

this can't be true, can it?

especially since views on who the enemy is
and what may be considered as necessary to combat him
seems to differ from country to country

the world would become an even more depressing place than it already is at times
I think it would be irresponsible to not do whatever is needed to defend ones country. History shows that countries that do not take their security seriously suffer the consequences.

The United States has been at the forfront of creating international instutitions to help resolve differences over security issues as well as other issues. Without the United States, the UN and NATO would not exist.

While it is vital to resolve differences of security issues the failure to do so can never block the will and desire of a democracy to defend itself in the way it sees best.

Rono,

"So it is right to sacrifice inocent people for your feelings of safety ?"

Far more innocent people would die if actions that could result in the accidental loss of innocent life are not taken. It would be virtually impossible for any country to defend itself or for that matter any police force to operate, if the possibility of the loss of innocent life prevented any action from being taken in all circumstances.
__________________

STING2 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×