Gore on the Rocks

[yolland]

They are, that's true, and have been for some time. The good news is that stereotype, a couple of years ago, via it's dominance of American politics and ideas (publicly, to the outside world) had stretched out to be the stereotype of America or Americans, and it is now subsiding rapidly as it's becoming apparent that opposition for Bush, Iraq etc is now the mainstream in the US. The conservative with a gun in one hand, bible in the other, spewing rubbish about Freedom Fries, is, thankfuly, a rapidly diminishing image. Travel around the world a few years ago and everyone thought the US had gone flat out crazy simply because the noise of a few was shouting down the many. Switch on Fox News a few years ago and you were honestly left sitting there thinking "We're all fucked" because you felt that millions upon millions upon millions believed the hype, now you just have to laugh at those still hanging on. The head-up-the-arse attitude towards foreign affairs was scary, but it's all but gone. The head-in-the-sand towards global warming, among other things (particularly 'social' issues), just shows the stupidity of certain beliefs.

Well at least you're honest that the stereotype exists, it can sometimes be very difficult to get people to admit that it does and that it shapes their perceptions. I don't expect people who aren't from here to have a realistic sense of what everyday political discourse in the US is actually like, but it can be hard to address any off-base ideas someone might have when they're unwilling to spell out what those ideas in fact are. It's funny, I help advise students who are preparing to study abroad sometimes, and whereas back when I did that as an undergrad this often entailed correcting delusions some students might have that everyone everywhere thinks America and Americans are just the most fabulous thing ever, nowadays it's more the reverse, you have to counsel them against paranoid suspicions that everyone's just waiting to spit in their face or something.

 

[Vincent Vega]

No, never, people are still crazy about Americans and very delighted to meet some

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Well at least you're honest that the stereotype exists, it can sometimes be very difficult to get people to admit that it does and that it shapes their perceptions.

It certainly wasn't a stereotype I believed in. Could not be further from the truth. During 2002-2005 I took 3 trips to various points around the US (and Europe), and I was just surprised that somehow one voice managed to be so incredibly loud while the other was left so muted. It was that loud voice that dominated overseas as "The American View of the World" and it's that which fuelled the stereotype. We could see these people shouting their shit, and then the slap to the face received by anyone who dared suggest otherwise. It could, from the outside, seem at points as if 95% of America was in line with Bush, even if that was as ridiculously far off as in reality it was.

The stereotype was exploited as well. You'd get Daily Show type comedy-news programs here in Australia who had a segment every single week based around "the stupid conservative American" where they'd take to the streets in little backwater midwest US towns, act like a serious news service, stopping people in the street and asking ridiculous questions about whether or not the US should invade France, or asking them to find Iraq on a map (the map of course being wrong anyway, having 'Iraq' written across where Australia is to guarantee another round of ridiculous results from the stupid conservative American) and then no doubt editing down the 100 correct, rational, sane responses to the 15 or so stupid ones and only showing those. They'd bait people into giving the exact kind of ultra-Conservative, war freak, ultra-patriotic, homophobic, rasist answer that fit and fuelled the stereotype. Someone in a ten gallon hat, "God Bless America" t-shirt who has just stepped out of a ridiculously huge SUV and then spits out something like "We should nuke Mecca" - perfect!

Thankfully, it's all but completely passed now, and if anything the stereotypical American is one just salivating at the chance of ending this in 2008 once and for all, and those who still stand for those conservative beliefs are obviously still mocked, just in a different way - one that doesn't tarnish everyone else.

 

[yolland]

if anything the stereotypical American is one just salivating at the chance of ending this in 2008 once and for all, and those who still stand for those conservative beliefs are obviously still mocked, just in a different way - one that doesn't tarnish everyone else.

Well, I guess that's a good thing so far as what it bodes for our international standing, which I'll grant has taken a beating from years of the 'with us or against us, there's no in-between' type of rhetoric--which the Bush Administration itself seems to be reconsidering the wisdom of at this point, if only because they've overextended us too much in Iraq to do otherwise. But it's closer to the reality, I think, that most Americans are too suspicious, anxious, and uncertain to feel sure which of the (2 through to 200, depending on how you want to break it down) political establishments to believe in. And the stupid rhetorical one-upmanship, two-talking-heads-jockeying for who can market their wares most snazzily approach to 'debate' which too often characterizes the 'public' face of discourse here sure doesn't help with that, and bears very little resemblance to how *most* Americans actually debate and discuss amongst ourselves most of the time. Plus, there's a vicious-circle effect to the polarization which all that breeds that makes it that much harder to retrieve any kind of constructive discussion from all the hot air--as with what LyricalDrug was saying in the other thread about Gore himself seeming annoyed with members of both parties when addressing Congress. It makes for lively 'entertainment', both here and abroad, but there's not much else to be said for it.

 

[AEON]

Hey by the way, I forgot to tell everyone. I'm gonna see Al Gore at a conference I'm going to next week. What do you want me to ask him?

Do you think you should cut down on meat since it is the number 1 cause of greenhouse gases?

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Do you think you should cut down on meat since it is the number 1 cause of greenhouse gases?

If there was a viable alternative whereby you could get steak from a source other than straight off a cow, then absolutely, definitely, 110%. There isn't for now, so Daisy's arse it is. Driving that truck around the suburbs though....

 

[DrTeeth]

How exactly is meat the number 1 cause of greenhouse gasses?

 

[A_Wanderer]

Livestock give off methane and carbon dioxide and the land use change to pasture removes trees and changes an areas reflectance.

 

[BonosSaint]

Do you think you should cut down on meat since it is the number 1 cause of greenhouse gases?

Ah yes, a similar suggestion was made by noted scientist and ecology activist Rush Limbaugh the other day.

 

[A_Wanderer]

UN figures peg the livestock industry as contributing the equivalent of 18% of CO2 in greenhouse gasses, not a small contribution.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Ah yes, a similar suggestion was made by noted scientist and ecology activist Rush Limbaugh the other day.

PETA also said so, then again it suits their aganda too

 

[A_Wanderer]

And none of those agenda's stops sheep, cows or pigs from farting or changes however many billion livestock are respiring.

 

[BonosSaint]

Have no argument with the facts of the animal flatulation having effect. Just with the way the facts are presented to totally discredit and ridicule opposing viewpoint and to absolve any accountability at all.

From the information I've seen and I'm sure Wanderer will correct me if I'm wrong, the manmade effects are significant. Non- manmade effects are more significant in totality (and perhaps greatly more significant) Appears there is not much we can do at this time to alter the non-manmade effects, but there is something we can do to lessen the manmade effects. I'm never too trusting of true believers on either side because they have a tendency to disregard facts in conflict with their position, but in this case, I'd err on the side of caution and do what is reasonably in our capability.

If nothing else, I'm for conservation of nonrenewable resources.
But to be honest, I can't work up an interest in it. If carbon footprints have any credibility, I leave a small footprint.

 

[INDY500]

Hey by the way, I forgot to tell everyone. I'm gonna see Al Gore at a conference I'm going to next week. What do you want me to ask him?

Tell him "Klaatu, Barada, Nikto."

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

UN figures peg the livestock industry as contributing the equivalent of 18% of CO2 in greenhouse gasses, not a small contribution.

Here is a link from the UN.org site:

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=20772&Cr=global&Cr1=environment

It does not give an author so I am not going to take it as conclusive but it raises interesting ideas nonetheless. Animal welfare aside this is something that the majority of the population could do, there is nothing wrong with a vegetarian diet no matter what you have been brainwashed into believing...

 

[A_Wanderer]

I've been brainwashed by my tastebuds; I like tasty animals and am not afraid to kill them.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

But you can make paper products from elephant poo poo

http://www.poopoopaper.com/

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

I've been brainwashed by my tastebuds; I like tasty animals and am not afraid to kill them.

Than you are a better carnivore than I...

Without derailing this thread too much, let me pose a question, can you eat raw ground beef or steak or chicken without any sauce or seasoning at all?

 

[A_Wanderer]

Than you are a better carnivore than I...

Without derailing this thread too much, let me pose a question, can you eat raw ground beef or steak or chicken without any sauce or seasoning at all?

No, I like to kill off parasites, but a good juicy steak medium rare

 

[anitram]

there is nothing wrong with a vegetarian diet no matter what you have been brainwashed into believing...

People like the taste of meat.

I eat red meat maybe once or twice a month. I don't even like chicken anymore and try to avoid it. I'll have pork on occasion. But you'd have to pry seafood out of my dead, cold hands to get me to become a vegetarian.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

People like the taste of meat.

I eat red meat maybe once or twice a month. I don't even like chicken anymore and try to avoid it. I'll have pork on occasion. But you'd have to pry seafood out of my dead, cold hands to get me to become a vegetarian.

It's a touchy issue, I realize this so I'll leave it at that.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Only touchy if you care about animals, as far as im concerned we have had thousands of years of eugenics to produce the plump and tastiest walking meals.

 

[Irvine511]

Have no argument with the facts of the animal flatulation having effect. Just with the way the facts are presented to totally discredit and ridicule opposing viewpoint and to absolve any accountability at all.

bingo.

that was perfectly stated, and gets to the heart of most of the anti-Gore rhetoric.

i find it so interesting. 10-15 years ago, in the midst of all the welfare reforming, we heard so much from the right about accountability, responsibility, ownership societies, etc. how people are responsible for their situations, and with a little gumption and elbow grease, you, too, can get a job and get off welfare and in fact a government handout is holding you back.

yet, when it comes to living an environmentally responsible life, there is no sense of responsiblity or ownership whatsoever. it's blame this, excuse that, absolve me of this, point to every silly thing someone could do as a means of removing yourself from any sort of culpability. it's like when a pre-teen is pushing back against parental authority, like being told to clean one's room, the repsonse is, "oh yeah? well YOU left your jacket on the COUCH yesterday, mom! that wasn't very clean, now WAS it?"

 

[Irvine511]

Only touchy if you care about animals, as far as im concerned we have had thousands of years of eugenics to produce the plump and tastiest walking meals.

my sister is a fairly strict vegetarian, and considering going vegan. it doesn't strike me as healthy. i enjoy meat, especially fish, and i do draw a distinction between humans and animals so i don't think the killing of animals for a specific purpose -- food, and all those amino acids and protein -- is wrong in any way.

however, we can have massive objections to the meat industry. so it's less about eating meat or not, than about eating responsible meat.

just like living environmentally responsibly. you can choose to buy free range pork (conditions for pigs can be especially cruel, when you consider that your average pig is as smart, or smarter, than your average dog) just like you can choose to wash your clothes in cold water.

and that's my sermon for the day.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Mr. Burns: Nonsense! Dogs are idiots! Think about it, Smithers. If I came into your house and started sniffing at your crotch and slobbering all over you, what would you say?

Smithers: If you did it, sir?

 

[AEON]

I've been brainwashed by my tastebuds; I like tasty animals and am not afraid to kill them.

EXACTLY!

My favorite is veal chops! Cooked rare...

 

[Irvine511]

EXACTLY!

My favorite is veal chops! Cooked rare...

do you know what goes into your veal?

(i love veal, too, but i haven't eaten it in years)

also, for what it's worth:

[q]Puck removes foie gras from menus
March 23, 2007

Puck removes foie gras from menus

Celebrity chef Wolfgang Puck (below) is cooking up kinder, gentler menus. As part of a new initiative to fight animal cruelty, Puck said yesterday he will no longer serve foie gras, the fatty liver produced by overfeeding ducks and geese. His 14 fine-dining restaurants, more than 80 fast-casual eateries , and 43 catering venues will use only eggs from hens that have lived cage-free; veal from roaming calves; and lobsters that have been removed from their ocean traps quickly to avoid crowded holding tanks. Puck said guests at his restaurants want to know their food is made with fresh, organic ingredients and that the animals were treated well. "We want a better standard for living creatures. It's as simple as that," Puck said. The move came after three years of protests by Farm Sanctuary, an animal-rights group that launched wolfgangpuckcruelty.org -- relabeled Wolfgang Puck Victory as of yesterday -- and organized a leaflet ing campaign outside Puck's restaurants. Puck worked with the Humane Society of the United States on the new initiative. He said he wasn't responding to pressure from animal welfare advocates, but instead believes the best-tasting food comes from animals that have been treated humanely. (AP)[/q]

and i do love me some foie gras. but i haven't eaten it since i was last in France. and i don't plan to eat it again.

 

[trevster2k]

This thread needs more David Suzuki

http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/podcast.html

Ideas lecture podcast with David Suzuki and Stephen Lewis discussing environmental issues.

 

[Justin24]

http://media.www.brockpress.com/media/storage/pa...l.Gore.Graduates.From.Concordia-2820594.shtml

Al Gore graduates from Concordia
Sebastien Cadieux & Brian Hastien

Issue date: 4/3/07 Section: News
PrintEmail Article Tools Page 1 of 1 The Link (Concordia University)

MONTREAL (CUP) - Concordia president Claude Lajeunesse was booed as he took the stage to give Al Gore an honorary doctorate from the university on March 22.
The brainchild of Concordia Student Union president Khaleed Juma, the doctorate was presented while the crowd, present to listen to speeches from Gore and David Suzuki, filed out the exits after the question and answer period with Gore was cancelled.
The talk took place in the cadre of Less Talk, More Action: A Youth Action Summit on Climate Change, organized by Youth Action Montreal members and Concordia University students Peter Schiefke and Mohamed Shuriye.
Gore and Suzuki's message was clear: The world is in imminent danger if we continue our current habits and don't change towards a more eco-friendly society.
The former U.S. vice-president's speech was effectively his Academy Award-winning documentary An Inconvenient Truth with updated statistics, and presented by an angrier, fist-shaking Gore.
His presentation was halted at least twice as opponents to his agenda began to shout out.
They called him a liar and a villain, and screamed, "What about your swimming pools?" in regards to recent allegations that the monthly electricity bill of Gore's estate rivalled a year's bill for the average American home.
This led Gore to joke, "I don't even know if you guys are left- or right-wing".
Suzuki also made a 45-minute speech on the topic du jour. The speech was punctuated by numerous bouts of applause from a rather enthusiastic audience.
He espoused that the media should play a more central role in the way it informs the public, saying, "Over half of all Nobel Prize winners are telling us we could have as little as 10 years to avoid a catastrophe and this is pronounced by our media as 'not newsworthy'.

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