GOP Nominee 2012 - Who Will It Be?, Pt. 4 - Page 47 - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-16-2012, 12:01 AM   #921
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Originally Posted by Ed Gillespie
"It's sad to see," he said. "We now know that this president will say or do anything to keep the highest office in the land, even if it means demeaning the highest office in the land."
Amen, Ed!

I tells ya, it was nice to see Ed Gillespie stand up against the character assassination of John Kerry 8 years ago. Oh wait...he did what?

Fucking hypocrite.
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Old 07-16-2012, 04:45 AM   #922
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His comment is particularly funny considering how easy it is to show that Romney will adopt whatever position is politically convenient for him, even if it means completely contradicting previous positions.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:00 AM   #923
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Do you not recognize any form of private enterprise or charity, personal compassion or philanthropy, to be the equal of compulsory, collective government egalitarianism?


here's something that would be an enormous economic boon to the most densely populated region of the US, and something that could never, ever be done with charity and personal compassion or philanthropy. there are things that only government has the organizational capacity to do, and anti-government zealots and shortsighted politicians (like Christie and his idiotic "no" to tunnels to Manhattan) are only keeping the US in a perpetual 1979 when it comes to projects like this that would actually help the US join the 21st century and do far, far more for employment than tax cuts for Mitt Romney:

- The Washington Post
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:16 PM   #924
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Personal charity and philanthropy is great for funding after school programs, summer camps for kids, local soup kitchens and food banks, etc. It also plays a role in supplementing health care research funding, for example. But the notion that it is a system that can deliver large-scale social infrastructure is crazy.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:09 PM   #925
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I had no idea that it's poor black unwed mothers who are responsible for the $15T debt.
If you're black and have a slew of kids, you're a welfare queen.

If you're white and have a slew of kids you get a reality show on TLC. And, if you declare yourself to be a church, you don't have to pay taxes.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:37 PM   #926
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So true!! ^^^
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:02 PM   #927
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That is so true
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:00 PM   #928
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Romney said,
"I'll bet you 10 million dollars Obama won't apologize to me."
.
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:37 PM   #929
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But the notion that it is a system that can deliver large-scale social infrastructure is crazy.
1) Where's that in the Constitution?

Answer: Are you kidding me?

2) Where does government get the money to pay for a "large-scale social infrastructure?"

Answer: It takes it from the private sector.
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:49 PM   #930
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
1) Where's that in the Constitution?

Answer: Are you kidding me?
In the preamble:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Is "domestic tranquility" or "general welfare" defined somewhere else in the document that I'm not aware of? How about "blessings of liberty"? Do you have a very black and white non-living definition of that too somewhere?
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:53 PM   #931
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
If you're black and have a slew of kids, you're a welfare queen.

If you're white and have a slew of kids you get a reality show on TLC. And, if you declare yourself to be a church, you don't have to pay taxes.
Bingo. Brilliantly said.
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:51 PM   #932
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1) Where's that in the Constitution?

Answer: Are you kidding me?

2) Where does government get the money to pay for a "large-scale social infrastructure?"

Answer: It takes it from the private sector.
I'm not sure what you are getting at? Government should not provide large scale infrastructure? I don't see Apple offering up a couple of billion to build new roads or educate people in anyway other than how to increase profits?

I don't understand why people would want to offer up control of our lives from something we elect to unelected corporations, as where there would be a power vacuum at the top if government was severely limited, the corporations would an are gladly filling it.

Would you apply capitalist values to your family? Why the hell would you apply it to society at large? Unless it's tempered by more human, dare I say, socialist values it becomes a mess. Efficiency over humanity eh?
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:56 PM   #933
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I don't understand why people would want to offer up control of our lives from something we elect to unelected corporations, as where there would be a power vacuum at the top if government was severely limited, the corporations would an are gladly filling it.
Very good point! I find this sails over the heads of conservatives all the time. For example "Death panels" run by the government=the end of the world. The current "death panels" we have run by private insurance companies=no problem.

They seem to be extremely aware of the potential abuse in overly-powerful government (and there is a legitimate case to be made for that. I've come to believe that any place where the government is the biggest employer and government jobs are the ones everybody wants, is a place that is destined for trouble. I saw that play out for 11 years on the island where I used to live). Yet they seem to be unable to consider the equal and considerable dangers of an overly powerful corporate sector as well.

In our governmental system the people are to limit the power of government, but who (if not the government) is to limit the power of big business?
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:03 PM   #934
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Exactly. It's like it has to be some weird "either/or" scenario. Both can work fine and both can also screw up. To suggest that one should be limited while the other should run free with no restrictions makes no sense.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:12 PM   #935
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Ugh that last line of mine is completely messed up grammatically but glad you understood my point!
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:55 PM   #936
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I've come to believe that any place where the government is the biggest employer and government jobs are the ones everybody wants, is a place that is destined for trouble. I saw that play out for 11 years on the island where I used to live).
The Europe's like that and everything's fine here!
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:29 PM   #937
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I'm not sure what you are getting at? Government should not provide large scale infrastructure? I don't see Apple offering up a couple of billion to build new roads or educate people in anyway other than how to increase profits?
The quote was "large scale social infrastructure" in the context of health care.

No one is arguing that the government shouldn't build roads or provide primary education. Many do argue, however, that the more "large scale social infrastructures," i.e. the government, replace the family infrastructure as the source of daily needs the worse off we are, individually and as a country.

Quote:
I don't understand why people would want to offer up control of our lives from something we elect to unelected corporations, as where there would be a power vacuum at the top if government was severely limited, the corporations would an are gladly filling it.

Would you apply capitalist values to your family? Why the hell would you apply it to society at large? Unless it's tempered by more human, dare I say, socialist values it becomes a mess. Efficiency over humanity eh?
I agree, mom and dad simply can't be trusted to "spread the wealth around" in a family. A bureaucrat at every table I say.
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:31 PM   #938
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The Europe's like that and everything's fine here!
Yes, can't wait 'til we catch up.
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:15 PM   #939
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Many do argue, however, that the more "large scale social infrastructures," i.e. the government, replace the family infrastructure as the source of daily needs the worse off we are, individually and as a country.


it's true. my mother really knows how to work the CAT scan we have in the basement and does a wonderful job administering chemo. and thank goodness we had everything my grandmother would have needed at a typical $400-a-day nursing home (that's what they cost, look at what we saved!) upstairs in the guest bedroom.
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:30 PM   #940
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No one is also arguing that government should replace family structures or for a bureaucrat at every table, that's inane, but it can be a hell of an assistance.

Is it not government of the people by the people? I think one of the major problems here is that we have allowed the government to become divorced from us. Capitalism as I've already stated prices the bottom of society out of healthcare, it's not something that can be adequately provided by private companies who are looking to make money out of illness. I know it may be naive but shouldn't one of humanities aims be to take care of those people falling on hard times and try to solve some of our social problems? Surely that only be done best with the collective effort of all of us which should be best represented by 'our' government not one that is serving the interests of the corporations.

Pure capitalism seems to me to be the least freedom loving and inhuman system we could be using to ensure the wealth of the world.

And yes plenty of nations within Europe have fallen on hard times, but the Scandinavians and Germans are doing al right or at least as well as the US. What we are looking at in some of these states is just bad governance rather than the complete failure of some of the more socialist schemes in operation within these states.

Anyway if we want to hand control over to the private sector be my guest, just look at how the banks are doing with the Libor scandal and HSBC drug money laundering...better and more ethically sound than government?
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