GOP Nominee 2012 - Who Will It Be?, Pt. 4 - Page 41 - U2 Feedback

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Old 06-19-2012, 11:57 PM   #801
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i hope Mitt ordered toast with that scramble.

no women on the list either. Our Sarah has set back GOP women for a generation -- sorry ladies! and please stop talking about vaginas in Michigan!
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:37 AM   #802
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sorry ladies! and please stop talking about vaginas in Michigan!
That still seriously floors me. I keep thinking that HAS to be a joke.
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Old 06-21-2012, 08:49 PM   #803
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Daniels trades GOP politics for academics at Purdue

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Now that he's been named the next president of Purdue University, Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels says he's going to swear off partisan politics and spend the next few months learning the world of academia.

The Republican, who decided against a White House bid, was introduced today as Purdue's 12th president after a vote of its board of trustees. Daniels will take over the post in January, when his term ends as governor.


Purdue... seriously?
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:07 PM   #804
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It's hard to blame him for wanting out of politics for awhile
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:13 PM   #805
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once again Indy

proof that you did pick a quality person, sounds like this is one politician with a bit of class (no pun)
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:46 PM   #806
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once again Indy

proof that you did pick a quality person, sounds like this is one politician with a bit of class (no pun)
Thanks but still a bitter pill when one lives in Bloomington.
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Old 06-22-2012, 05:31 AM   #807
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Why oh why would he go to the dark side? Higher education is liberal!!!
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:31 PM   #808
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If Obama actually IS involved with some "radical" person or group currently, and his involvement would have an actual impact on his presidency, then, believe it or not, we here would discuss such a thing.
I'm not sure if I'd agree with that, TBH. We have had posts from posters here admitting that part of the reason they advocate for Obama is that they fancy him. Maybe they were joke posts, maybe not. All I know is I saw posts, maybe not here but on other forums, circa 2003-2005, saying Bush is going to save us, Bush is going to defend us from the terrorists, Bush is such a strong cowboy, and don't he look swell in his cowboy hat and riding out on his ranch. And it didn't seem like they were joking, certainly not in the febrile atmosphere that existed in the years of the Great War on Terror (remember that?)

America. much as I love it (from a distance) has a big problem, IMO, with investing too much in its presidents, in hagiographing these figures, when they are really just men, with feet of clay, like all men.

The current mood on FYM, if you ask me, is so dismissive of anything vaguely suggestive of conservative opinion, so ready to accuse any philosophy slightly right of centre of being borderline fascist, so ready to convict anti-Obama people of racism and all sorts of prejudices, that it's vaguely disturbing. There's a sense that people sitting on the fence might almost be afraid to voice an opinion lest they be accused of thought crime! That's just a personal perspective, btw - I can't claim to speak for others on the right wing here.

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But then again, your idea of what constitutes "radical" is vastly different from most people's, so it's hard to know how accurate the accusations are. Who was it a while back that made the insinuation that Obama (may) have read socialist or communist literature when he was younger, therefore, GASP, he's clearly a socialist or communist, or at least has sympathies with such political beliefs.
I agree that it's no big deal that Obama has read communist literature, if that's the case. Anyone of above average intellect and learning will have done so, at some stage, one hopes - all the great economists that I am aware of are well-versed in Marxist economic literature - mainly in order to critique it, granted.

The evidence for condemning Obama of being a closet commie on the basis of books he may or may not have read is, I'd grant you, pretty suspect. If one wants to accuse Obama of socialism, one is better off looking at his record - and that record, from where I'm sitting, is profoundly pro-statist and not at all friendly to the business owner class. He has displayed little or no evidence of any level of common feeling or sympathy with entrepreneurs and small business owners - you know, the people that actually will eventually create the jobs that will get this godamn economy back on its feet again.
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:43 PM   #809
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I'm not sure if I'd agree with that, TBH. We have had posts from posters here admitting that part of the reason they advocate for Obama is that they fancy him. Maybe they were joke posts, maybe not. All I know is I saw posts, maybe not here but on other forums, circa 2003-2005, saying Bush is going to save us, Bush is going to defend us from the terrorists, Bush is such a strong cowboy, and don't he look swell in his cowboy hat and riding out on his ranch. And it didn't seem like they were joking, certainly not in the febrile atmosphere that existed in the years of the Great War on Terror (remember that?)

America. much as I love it (from a distance) has a big problem, IMO, with investing too much in its presidents, in hagiographing these figures, when they are really just men, with feet of clay, like all men.
On this much we are (perhaps shockingly) in complete agreement.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:16 PM   #810
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I'm not sure if I'd agree with that, TBH. We have had posts from posters here admitting that part of the reason they advocate for Obama is that they fancy him. Maybe they were joke posts, maybe not. All I know is I saw posts, maybe not here but on other forums, circa 2003-2005, saying Bush is going to save us, Bush is going to defend us from the terrorists, Bush is such a strong cowboy, and don't he look swell in his cowboy hat and riding out on his ranch. And it didn't seem like they were joking, certainly not in the febrile atmosphere that existed in the years of the Great War on Terror (remember that?)

America. much as I love it (from a distance) has a big problem, IMO, with investing too much in its presidents, in hagiographing these figures, when they are really just men, with feet of clay, like all men.
I fully agree we have a tendency to see presidents as gods sometimes. The right goes nuts over Reagan to this day, the left won't stop obsessing over the Kennedys or Clinton.

However, on here, at least, the "fancying Obama" stuff I think is mainly lighthearted joking commentary. This place gets awfully heated sometimes, so a bit of light fun fluffy talk every now and again is welcome, I think. And besides that, you can find someone attractive and still not always agree with their actions. I'm pretty sure nobody here is voting for Obama simply because they find him cute.

The Bush comments, I don't know how much of it was joking and how much was serious, but I do know people legitimately thought that way. But people actually think that way about the president they voted for. I've said it many times before, but the left is guilty of it, too-there were many that thought Obama would come in and fix everything, and he hasn't, at least, not to their satisfaction. When we talk about criticism of a president, we often focus on the opposing party's comments, but we also need to remember that the supporting party can have its own complaints, too. And some complaints are nonsensical and based in merely nasty rhetoric or kneejerk hatred of the other side, but some complaints also do have value, and those should be heard.

Personally, if you want to see the left here bring up some criticism of Obama, I think it'd be great if we started talking about things like his drone program, or this latest "fast & furious" situation, or his continued ties to Wall Street, or not shutting down Guantanamo Bay, or things of that sort. You could definitely find Obama supporters who would have some problems with those scenarios, and those are legitimate issues worth discussing. I'd be happy to participate in those conversations.

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The current mood on FYM, if you ask me, is so dismissive of anything vaguely suggestive of conservative opinion, so ready to accuse any philosophy slightly right of centre of being borderline fascist, so ready to convict anti-Obama people of racism and all sorts of prejudices, that it's vaguely disturbing. There's a sense that people sitting on the fence might almost be afraid to voice an opinion lest they be accused of thought crime! That's just a personal perspective, btw - I can't claim to speak for others on the right wing here.
I know it seems like the right is being ganged up on here because there aren't a lot of you on here to begin with. But while some people may overdramatize one's viewpoint, I think it's fair to say we don't have a problem with conservative thought in and of itself and will listen to actual, thought out comments.

But the way some conservatives here present their opinion, intentionally or not, comes off very wrong to us. Your comment, for instance, in our recent immigration discussion, insinuating my viewpoint on the topic was simply because of liberal middle-class guilt and fear that I'd "offend a brown person somewhere". That's simplistic, blatantly untrue, and the whole "brown person" remark, um...wow. Couldn't have found a better way to phrase that? Really? The whole thing a while back about people on welfare scamming off the system. Nobody denied that that happens, but some here also pointed out instances where that was not true and why such programs exist to begin with. But it seemed to go in one ear and out the other.

People on this board may not be racist, but the right seemed to be totally oblivious to the racism that occurred within the Tea Party, or with those who supported the Tea Party (or the GOP in general). They seemed to forget about the signs with Obama as a voodoo witch doctor, or the "haha, watermelons on the White House lawn, teehee, funny!" e-mail an actual government official sent out, the signs where Obama was called racial epithets, the stupid Hitler moustaches. The whole moronic birther thing has its roots in racist beliefs. But most right-wingers here seemed to deny that was as common as it was, or wanted us to actually show proof it happened.

And then the anti-gay sentiment among some right-wingers here throughout the years, well, that's never going to get support, because there's nothing about it worth supporting to begin with.

I agree the left has been guilty of overreaction and oversimplification of one's viewpoint on here many times, and I agree that the right's voice does sometimes get drowned out amongst the voices here. But the way the right vocalizes their beliefs sometimes, some of it they kinda brought on themselves.

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I agree that it's no big deal that Obama has read communist literature, if that's the case. Anyone of above average intellect and learning will have done so, at some stage, one hopes - all the great economists that I am aware of are well-versed in Marxist economic literature - mainly in order to critique it, granted.

The evidence for condemning Obama of being a closet commie on the basis of books he may or may not have read is, I'd grant you, pretty suspect. If one wants to accuse Obama of socialism, one is better off looking at his record - and that record, from where I'm sitting, is profoundly pro-statist and not at all friendly to the business owner class. He has displayed little or no evidence of any level of common feeling or sympathy with entrepreneurs and small business owners - you know, the people that actually will eventually create the jobs that will get this godamn economy back on its feet again.
Agreed on the whole thing regarding what he reads. And I agree that he hasn't done as much as he should to help small businesses and such. There are people still struggling job-wise in this country, and more could be done, should be done to help them.

But I would point to his continued ties to Wall Street and corporate interests as the reason why that is, and that doesn't strike me as socialist, that strikes me as very much capitalist. He hasn't gone after the super rich and corporations as much as he should, and that's a big part of why we're having the economic problems we're having. Corporations have way, WAY more power now than they should be having, and the super rich are whining because, oh, my god, they might have to pay a bit more in taxes and they can't get their 10th home or yacht or something, the horror! We're tired of the rich people complaining, and think more needs to be done to deal with them.
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:12 PM   #811
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But the way some conservatives here present their opinion, intentionally or not, comes off very wrong to us. Your comment, for instance, in our recent immigration discussion, insinuating my viewpoint on the topic was simply because of liberal middle-class guilt and fear that I'd "offend a brown person somewhere". That's simplistic, blatantly untrue, and the whole "brown person" remark, um...wow. Couldn't have found a better way to phrase that? Really?
TBH, Europeans tend to have a different outlook on this. Quite frankly, most Europeans (can I say "native Europeans" or is that racist?) wish to keep their countries primarily, well, European. Look at the French vote recently, for example - and I am not defending or advocating for the Front Nationale, but we have to be realstic as to what the popular support for them means. I accept America is different because of its history and that. But, at a time of high unemployment in the West in general, surely it is sensible to return to the old precept that charity, after all, begins at home? Actually, I would be prepared to make the argument that permissive immigration systems encourage racism, rather than the opposite.

Its interesting that Japan, still to this day, in spite of all their troubles, one of the most highly developed and advanced economies on the planet, has a very, very restrictive immigration system - and they never make any apologies for it either, and neither should they in my view. In fact, to be bluntly honest, they find the American and European idea of letting in large numbers of foreigners to do the jobs their natives can already do, absurd and laughable.

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The whole thing a while back about people on welfare scamming off the system. Nobody denied that that happens, but some here also pointed out instances where that was not true and why such programs exist to begin with. But it seemed to go in one ear and out the other.
I only vaguely recall that debate, but as for unemployment assistance and the like, I certainly don't have a problem with the state providing this - indeed, I have availed of it myself. But what I and most conservatives resent is the way the system grants welfare to those who treat welfare as basically a lifestyle choice. That was, I assume, the only point I was trying to make.

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And then the anti-gay sentiment among some right-wingers here throughout the years, well, that's never going to get support, because there's nothing about it worth supporting to begin with.
In my seven years here, I can only recall a single poster who put up blatant homophobic comments, and that person was banned. Indeed, I was one of the people that reported that person's posts. I personally am in favour of gay marriage on libertarian grounds, but I do not accept, indeed, cannot accept that people who are against gay marriage are prima facie homophobes, simply on the basis of the fact that they disagree with gay marriage. Actually, the American left's tactics on the issue, I find, quite franky, abominable at times, the way they are so eager to slur people who come to the issue with different conclusions to them with the 'homophobe' epithet.

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But I would point to his continued ties to Wall Street and corporate interests as the reason why that is, and that doesn't strike me as socialist, that strikes me as very much capitalist. He hasn't gone after the super rich and corporations as much as he should, and that's a big part of why we're having the economic problems we're having. Corporations have way, WAY more power now than they should be having, and the super rich are whining because, oh, my god, they might have to pay a bit more in taxes and they can't get their 10th home or yacht or something, the horror!
Agreed here 100%.
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:07 AM   #812
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The most accomplished Americans have been immigrants (like, say, Einstein). Immigration isnt in our blood, it is our blood. Yes, give us your huddled masses, but also give us your best and brightest and most ambitious. While an enormous amount of American talent is homegrown, we all benefit when people arrive with a purpose and ambition.
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Old 06-24-2012, 02:11 AM   #813
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In my seven years here, I can only recall a single poster who put up blatant homophobic comments, and that person was banned. Indeed, I was one of the people that reported that person's posts. I personally am in favour of gay marriage on libertarian grounds, but I do not accept, indeed, cannot accept that people who are against gay marriage are prima facie homophobes, simply on the basis of the fact that they disagree with gay marriage. Actually, the American left's tactics on the issue, I find, quite franky, abominable at times, the way they are so eager to slur people who come to the issue with different conclusions to them with the 'homophobe' epithet.
I think the problem is that I, like many on the "American left," have yet to encounter a legitimate argument against gay rights. Any argument I have encountered has been awful and easily refutable, and those I have challenged have consistently resorted to simply shying away from debate in order to maintain their close-minded viewpoints. I am not sure what you expect someone in my situation to do at this point.
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Old 06-24-2012, 10:43 AM   #814
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Its interesting that Japan, still to this day, in spite of all their troubles, one of the most highly developed and advanced economies on the planet, has a very, very restrictive immigration system - and they never make any apologies for it either, and neither should they in my view. In fact, to be bluntly honest, they find the American and European idea of letting in large numbers of foreigners to do the jobs their natives can already do, absurd and laughable.
I find it really surprising that you have brought up Japan.

Japan's economy has been in shambles for 20 years and their high standard of living can directly be attributed to the population's willingness and discipline to work hard and work longer. Currently they are a demographic nightmare and you can easily see their senior citizens having to work full time well into old age (think 80s, 90s) to sustain the country. But, this generation is going to start to die out and then Japan is completely up a $hit creek without a paddle. One of the worst outlooks in the world, and a large part of that is their complete unwillingness to welcome immigration.

You may look at that as smart, but they're going to be toast in 50 years. Worth it? I guess that's up to individuals to decide.
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:19 PM   #815
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The most accomplished Americans have been immigrants (like, say, Einstein). Immigration isnt in our blood, it is our blood. Yes, give us your huddled masses, but also give us your best and brightest and most ambitious. While an enormous amount of American talent is homegrown, we all benefit when people arrive with a purpose and ambition.
We all benefit, as well, when they arrive in an orderly and lawful process. A process that expects immigrants to respect our laws, language and culture rather expecting us to accommodate them.

Open borders, lax enforcement of laws, amnesty for illegality, non-assimilation, and blatant political pandering all undermine that process.
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:24 PM   #816
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I find it really surprising that you have brought up Japan.

Japan's economy has been in shambles for 20 years and their high standard of living can directly be attributed to the population's willingness and discipline to work hard and work longer. Currently they are a demographic nightmare and you can easily see their senior citizens having to work full time well into old age (think 80s, 90s) to sustain the country. But, this generation is going to start to die out and then Japan is completely up a $hit creek without a paddle. One of the worst outlooks in the world, and a large part of that is their complete unwillingness to welcome immigration.

You may look at that as smart, but they're going to be toast in 50 years. Worth it? I guess that's up to individuals to decide.
China. No immigration and Thomas Friedman can't write enough glowing columns and books about their system.
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Old 06-24-2012, 02:24 PM   #817
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We all benefit, as well, when they arrive in an orderly and lawful process. A process that expects immigrants to respect our laws, language and culture rather expecting us to accommodate them.

Open borders, lax enforcement of laws, amnesty for illegality, non-assimilation, and blatant political pandering all undermine that process.

yes, because that's how all immigrants arrived in the US since 1776. having laws and enforcing them is a good thing. punishing *children* for actions taken by their parents is unconscionable.

the coded language "respect our language" is much easier to understand when you come out and say "no Mexicans."

don't worry, the Mexican economy is improving dramatically. immigration has slowed dramatically. they'll take their talents and delicious food somewhere else.
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Old 06-24-2012, 02:27 PM   #818
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China. No immigration and Thomas Friedman can't write enough glowing columns and books about their system.


he admires how they're investing in their future by building bridges, roads, tunnels, high speed rail, and spectacular airports.

as opposed to the ostrich right wing American "those bridges worked just fine in 1979 so lower my taxes because i'm not paying for anything but give me my social security and medicare while cutting food stamps because i'm white and earned it" mentality.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:12 PM   #819
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China. No immigration and Thomas Friedman can't write enough glowing columns and books about their system.
China has an enormous population that the government is working on assimilating into the country's industrial economy, very much unlike Japan. When China runs out of population to do that with, they'll have very similar problems. And this is a very serious long-term issue for them, actually.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:49 PM   #820
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China has an enormous population that the government is working on assimilating into the country's industrial economy, very much unlike Japan. When China runs out of population to do that with, they'll have very similar problems. And this is a very serious long-term issue for them, actually.
And the disproportionate number of young, single males due to their one-child policies.
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