GOP Nominee 2012 - Who Will It Be?, Pt. 3 - Page 44 - U2 Feedback

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Old 02-05-2012, 01:15 PM   #861
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Sorry but it has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with you.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:24 PM   #862
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Did you just quote direct from a US government press release?

Christ. That really wins the argument.
So which unbiased source should I quote it from then? AFAIK, all other sites base their analysis on that press release and its related raw data. So which kind of truth do you want to hear then?
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:05 PM   #863
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There is the Establishment clause, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." but is followed by the Free Exercise Clause, "... or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

I think it can certainly be argued that forcing an individual or religious organization to act against its religious conscience (in this case Catholics to purchase contraceptives, or other groups the morning After Pill) is prohibiting their free exercise of religion.
Most Catholic women use birth control banned by church | Reuters



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(Reuters) - Some 98 percent of sexually active Catholic women have used contraceptive methods banned by the church, research published on Wednesday showed.

A new report from the Guttmacher Institute, the nonprofit sexual health research organization, shows that only 2 percent of Catholic women, even those who regularly attend church, rely on natural family planning.

The latest data shows practices of Catholic women are in line with women of other religious affiliations and adult American women in general.

"In real-life America, contraceptive use and strong religious beliefs are highly compatible," said the report's lead author Rachel Jones.

She said most sexually active women who do not want to become pregnant practice contraception, and most use highly effective methods like sterilization, the pill, or the intrauterine device (IUD).

"This is true for Evangelicals and Mainline Protestants, and it is true for Catholics, despite the Catholic hierarchy's strenuous opposition to contraception," Jones said.

Nearly 70 percent of Catholic women use sterilization, the birth control pill or an IUD, according to the Guttmacher Institute research.

The numbers are slightly higher among women who identify as Evangelicals or Mainline Protestants, research showed.

The latest data is from the 2006-2008 National Survey of Family Growth (NSFG).

The findings nearly match previous NSFG data from 2002, which showed that 97 percent of Catholic women were using birth control, and are consistent with a trend tracked over the last decade by Catholics for Choice.

(Reporting by Lauren Keiper; editing by Barbara Goldberg and Greg McCune)
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:53 PM   #864
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We Catholics are pretty open about the fact that we're hypocritical 167 hours of the week and in that 168th receive complete forgiveness for our actions.
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:45 PM   #865
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I like to think of it as being pretty open about thinking the Vatican is wrong on lot of things.
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:48 PM   #866
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Im all for good news, if that's what it really was. But i'm also a bit confused with the jobs report because at the same time we're also hearing that American Airlines is supposed to cut 10k - 13k jobs:

American Airlines to Cut Up to 15,000 Jobs - KiiiTV3.com South Texas, Corpus Christi, Coastal Bend

American Airlines: We'll have 'many fewer' jobs - Feb. 1, 2012
they've been staving off bankruptcy for years. their problems come from high costs, in particular high oil prices....which didn't come about due to the current administration.
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Old 02-05-2012, 07:46 PM   #867
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Im all for good news, if that's what it really was. But i'm also a bit confused with the jobs report because at the same time we're also hearing that American Airlines is supposed to cut 10k - 13k jobs:

American Airlines to Cut Up to 15,000 Jobs - KiiiTV3.com South Texas, Corpus Christi, Coastal Bend

American Airlines: We'll have 'many fewer' jobs - Feb. 1, 2012

add to that awful news, per CNN, some analysts are predicting $5 per gallon gas this summer:

Gas prices: Rocky year ahead - Jan. 16, 2012

I've been reading from a lot of sources that the airline industry is due a shakeout, and unfortunately more jobs in airlines are likely to be lost. Indeed, a major Spanish airline went bust the other day. Even Ryanair, probably the most efficient airline in the world, is down on 2011. The US is fundamentally a more creative economy that than most in Europe, and its job creation record is historically much better than Europe (not difficult, granted).

Geopolitically, it's clear that we're witnessing an historic transfer of economic and political power from the west to the east, it's happening right in front of our eyes. For this election, to me, it comes down to who is better placed to manage that decline, or alternatively, being optimistic, to re-invigorate the sclerotic West, with its declining industry, faded manufacturing base, and, to be blunt, its welfare-addicted, uneducated, and plain bovine and lazy labour base and its corrupt, self-serving, and tax evading capitalist-boss class. From my perpective, at present, Romney is the more credible candidate. I just hope he displays some balls when the fight gets dirty - as indeed it assuredly will, given Obama's Chicago machine politics/Tammany Hall background.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:33 PM   #868
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I don't concur necessarily. You could put George Will and Norm Chomsky, two agnostics, in a room and what policies, arguing on "facts" alone, would they agree on? In actuality we all act on faith. Some of us have more faith in free markets and some of us have more faith in government for example. Some of us have more trust that individuals can make the best choices for themselves and some of us believe they can't be trusted and we should limit access to foods, drugs, movies and light bulbs they might do harm with.
Yes, this is true. But we can also cite actual examples of proof for those arguments. To limit drug use one can show actual examples of the harm involved in doing the drugs. We can find instances where the free market has worked, and we can find instances where the government has done something good.

Those two men may be agnostics, but I'm certain there could be one scenario they'd agree on. What it would be, I don't know, but I'm of the belief that at some point everyone is bound to find common ground with somebody somewhere, even if only on one thing.

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On the other hand, I can take a passage from the Bible and come to a completely different conclusion than another Christian. I think the president's theology is atrocious when he says, "For me, as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus’s teaching that ‘for unto whom much is given, much shall be required,’ ” I don't read that at all as as an endorsement of the "social gospel" of the Left, Big Government or reason enough to raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires. So two Christians can agree on the commission to 'love thy neighbor" and care for the poor but disagree completely on the most efficient and effective way to achieve those ends. Private charities supported by the individual compulsion of time and money vs. compulsory giving enforced by the IRS and funneled through the autonomy of government bureaucracy is how I would frame it but you might word that differently.
Yes, but the example you show there is one where we can find actual evidence as to why both ideas could either work or fail. We can look at private, individual charities vs. compulsory giving because the government says to and see where both ideas would be good or bad (and again, I'm not necessarily disagreeing on government forcing people to do something. I don't think the government should meddle in religious affairs. But again, I can find actual evidence in history to support why that shouldn't happen, just as I can find actual evidence in history where the church forcing the state to do something led to problems).

Basically, what I'm saying is, for someone to make a law about charity because their God told them it was a good idea to do so may sound nice, but then we have to prove first the existence of a god and then prove that he communicates with people directly that way and so on. That's where using faith to make laws can become a tricky, problematic issue. It's fine to personally believe God wants us to help the poor-if there is a God, I definitely think he/she/it wants us to help each other, too-but to say we should do this or that simply because God said so isn't the strongest basis for lawmaking.

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In the end theology and ideology can both be based on faith and both can lead to truth. But truth is truth. And I rather like how the designers of the Supreme Court building show lawgivers from all over the world and throughout history. From Moses, Solomon, Charlemagne and Confucius to Blackstone to illustrate that.
I agree, all those people have had some very profound impacts on our society and I'm glad we acknowledge their contributions. Just mainly a matter of whose ideas people find more important. Which, of course, vary from person to person.

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Well, laws should reflect a society shouldn't they. The one caveat being the protection of human and unalienable rights. My concern with Islamic law isn't that it reflects the beliefs of the majority of its citizens but rather how it treats those that don't. Most Islamic countries have Shariah law written into their constitutions. Now, like Christians, Muslims can read the Koran and have different interpretations but history and the current record of human rights abuses speak for themselves. Nor is the assimilation of Muslims into Western culture looking very promising at the moment.
One can make an argument about Christian extremism, too-it's had its time in history as well. And if Christianity were law, there's always a chance for it to get corrupted, too. If people feel the government's corrupt as it is, why tie a faith to it and make it more likely to be roped in and becoming corrupted, you know?

I definitely agree the Islamic extremism is very troubling. I'm no supporter of that faith, either-my feelings on religion spread across the board. I also agree that the chances of it overtaking our country anytime soon are incredibly small, if non-existent, which then makes me wonder why people freak out about the idea to begin with, but people will find anything to be paranoid over.

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How come we've never discussed anything in depth before? You're very interesting to trade posts with.
Thanks . I don't know. We should talk more often. I'm always happy to trade discussion and debate with people. Even if I strongly disagree with someone's viewpoint, I like hearing why they come to the conclusions they do.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:15 AM   #869
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Republican Clint Eastwood (unintentionally?) puts out a Super Bowl ad in total contravention of Mitt's "the car industry should have been let go bankrupt" much to the joy of the Obama people.

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Old 02-06-2012, 11:30 AM   #870
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Republican Clint Eastwood (unintentionally?) puts out a Super Bowl ad in total contravention of Mitt's "the car industry should have been let go bankrupt" much to the joy of the Obama people.

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Old 02-06-2012, 11:32 AM   #871
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From the NYTimes:

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Old 02-06-2012, 11:34 AM   #872
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seems not even the Republicans can keep the American economy down for long (or at least down long enough to be politically harmful to Democrats, since that's much more important than unemployment).
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:25 PM   #873
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That's one thing I absolutely support now, the bailout of the auto companies. They're doing so well , they've added jobs, and they have actually paid back most of the money. Can't imagine how much worse things could be without that.
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:46 PM   #874
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so, does this qualify as a "dog whistle"? or is this more of a foghorn?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=kxw4uZAezaI



it's also hilarious. yes, that peasant girl on a bike TOOK YER JABS!
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:25 PM   #875
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Her "Chinese accent" sounds more informed by Full Metal Jacket than anything else.

ETA -- okay, so apparently they aired this in MI during the Super Bowl?
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:35 PM   #876
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so, does this qualify as a "dog whistle"? or is this more of a foghorn?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=kxw4uZAezaI



it's also hilarious. yes, that peasant girl on a bike TOOK YER JABS!
Wow. I was half expecting her to end with "love you long time". That was awful.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:48 PM   #877
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Yes that ad was aired during the Super Bowl. Classy.

boston.com

By Shira Schoenberg, Globe Correspondent

President Obama has opened his strongest lead yet against Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney in the Washington Post-ABC News poll released today.

Obama would beat Romney among registered voters nationally, 51 percent to 45 percent, according to the poll. The Democrat would have an even stronger lead - 54 percent to 43 percent – if the Republican nominee were former House speaker Newt Gingrich. This is the first Washington Post poll in which Obama has been above 50 percent among registered voters in a head-to-head match-up with Romney.

About 53 percent of voters believe Obama better understands the economic problems they face, compared with 36 percent for Romney. A slim majority of respondents believe Romney will do a better job handling the economy and the federal budget deficit. They are split on which candidate will best create jobs. But they believe Obama will do a better job handling terrorism, international affairs, and taxes, as well as protecting the middle class.

The poll put Obama’s approval rating at 50 percent, the highest in several months. Obama has been helped by recent signs of a stronger economy, though a majority of voters still disapprove of his handling of the economy, job creation, and the federal budget deficit.

With the GOP presidential primary turning increasingly negative, voters are not happy with what they are hearing from the candidates. Just 36 percent of respondents approved of what they, with 54 percent disapproving.

The poll also showed that Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, is most likely to be the Republican nominee. He has opened a 14-point lead over Gingrich among GOP-leaning voters nationally, 38 percent to 24 percent. Voters said they trust Romney more than Gingrich to handle the economy. By a large margin, voters judged Romney to be the Republican candidate most likely to beat Obama in the general election.

However, there were danger signs for Romney. More than half (52 percent) of voters said they liked Romney less the more they heard about him. (Sixty percent said the same about Gingrich.) Voters said that as a corporate investor, Romney did more to cut jobs than to create them. And 60 percent thought Romney had not paid his fair share in taxes. (The question noted that Romney paid a 14 percent effective tax rate on an income of $22 million.)

The poll of 1,000 adults was conducted Feb. 1-4 and has a margin of error of 4 percentage points.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:59 PM   #878
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holy shit. this is the website. in this day and age?

Debbie Spenditnow | Hold Debbie Stabenow accountable for reckless spending

oh right, it's just about spending, guys. remember that.
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:24 PM   #879
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Is that for real? It's gotta be a spoof, right??
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Old 02-06-2012, 03:30 PM   #880
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That's one thing I absolutely support now, the bailout of the auto companies. They're doing so well , they've added jobs, and they have actually paid back most of the money. Can't imagine how much worse things could be without that.
Karl Rove hated the ad. He's totally lost the plot here.

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“I was, frankly, offended by it,” said Karl Rove on Fox News Monday. “I'm a huge fan of Clint Eastwood, I thought it was an extremely well-done ad, but it is a sign of what happens when you have Chicago-style politics, and the president of the United States and his political minions are, in essence, using our tax dollars to buy corporate advertising.”
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