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#841 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hamilton (No longer STD capital of NZ)
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quick fox, sweep that shit under the carpet!
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#842 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: It's Inside A Black Hole
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Quote:
![]() But seriously...there are only two choices. To me - it is a question over firing Obama for his missteps during the first two years. But you have to consider the alternative. I believe Obama will be better served in his second term with a Republican Senate and House, which will force him (Clinton-style) to be more fiscally conservative. And I think he's smart enough to adopt the best ideas and be able to get enough of his own in. And I think that is exactly what will happen. Obama - second term -Republicans take all of Congress. Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. |
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#843 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 07:58 PM
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#844 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
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Quote:
Has there been even a hint of Clinton-style triangulation from Obama after the wave election of 2010 that brought in a GOP house? After 3+ years I think we state with certainty that: |
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#845 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:58 AM
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Quote:
If they're clever, they'll dig behind the data. |
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#846 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:58 AM
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You know, I wouldn't criticise your friend particularly. Millions have voted and will continue to vote on the basis of much, much worse reasons than that - e.g., religion, belief in Biblical inerrancy or lack thereof, whether or not one smoked or inhaled dope at college, sheer blind prejudice, etc, etc.
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#847 | ||
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
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Very true, financeguy. And as such, it's hard to take some people seriously when they then turn around and complain-you're the ones who didn't bother to focus on things like their policies or their experience or competence at the job, so you get what you voted for.
From that bit yolland shared: Quote:
I could go into all the insanity regarding that debate, but I won't drag that whole thing in here. I'll simply say this about Romney: I don't care what your position is anymore, buddy, I just want you to freakin' PICK one. Quote:
As for the jobs report, well, part-time jobs aren't exactly anything wonderful in terms of pay and living, no. But it's better than having no job at all and collecting unemployment that is constantly in danger of getting cut off by Congress every few months. |
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#848 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
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#849 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Mar 2006
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but then again, it isn't in the republican constitution. the one where they wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people. |
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#850 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 07:58 PM
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I think it can certainly be argued that forcing an individual or religious organization to act against its religious conscience (in this case Catholics to purchase contraceptives, or other groups the morning After Pill) is prohibiting their free exercise of religion. Both clauses are equally important in protecting personal liberty. The first protects religious pluralism, the second individual sovereignty. |
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#851 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Jul 2002
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I actually do agree on that, INDY. I do think there's just as much danger in the state getting involved in church affairs as there is the other way around.
I'm just saying that that's the thing religious people often tend to forget when they talk about wanting church and state to mix. Sure, that means the church will have control over the state, so yay for the religious people there, but it also means the state's going to control them, too. It's all fun and games until you're the one who's in the position of being forced to do something you may not agree with. And now the people objecting to that birth control thing might start to realize how those of us who don't want religion running people's lives feel. One would think so, yes. Ironic how the Constitution is like religious text in that people cherry pick the parts they want to follow, and has the same "purist vs. adapting to the times" debate going on. |
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#852 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Christ. That really wins the argument. Here are the really numbers, for the benefit of those still living near Lake Reality: - 1.2 million working age people no longer have the honor & privilege of being 'counted' for purposes of tabulating unemployment + inherently flawed 'seasonal january adjustment' + a whole lot of temporary workers with no benefits and mostly at or near minimum wage = turn an actual survey data of a loss of 2.6 million jobs into a labour department reported gain of 243,000 jobs. |
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#853 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 07:58 PM
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It is the difference between a theocracy and a government and populace made up of people of faith. |
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#854 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
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But then of course that presents an issue for those in this country who aren't religious at all. "Moral and religious"-one should remember the two are not always synonomous.
Either way, be it the church, or religion, neither one should be used to influence state decisions. Add in the conflict over which faith is to be represented, if any, and then there goes the can of worms. Like I said, it's all not a problem until it's your faith or lack thereof that is the one being overruled. |
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#855 | |||
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
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We want a secular government free of legislated dogma but do we really want to say that values and principles informed by faith and religious teachings are inherently inferior for framing our laws, nay illegitimate, to those arrived at by a more temporal or nonspiritual means? Where's the evidence that that is even true? And where's the evidence of such a system of governance that we would want to emulate? |
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#856 | ||
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
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Quote:
Why the "I'm afraid" bit? Quote:
But the proven fact that it's also a clear abuse of human rights is another reason why it shouldn't exist. Religion relies on faith in things that may or may not be true, and it's not always easy as a result to use that as a means to shape our laws. That's where the problem comes in. It's not that one would necessarily disagree with a religious person's arguments or think they aren't worth considering when it comes to making laws, it's simply that the religious argument is also more faith-based than fact-based. And for people who think laws should have grounds in cold hard facts behind them, this poses a bit of an issue. Let's put it another way: if someone makes a simple suggestion in relation to Islamic beliefs as their reason for why a law should exist, how well would that go over? If our president were of that faith (I can hear the Obama/Islam jokes now), would it be okay for him to use his faith to help make his decisions about the country? Jewish? Buddhist? And so on? How comfortable will we all be with this idea when it's someone of an opposing faith making the laws? I'm not taking down a wall at all. I'm keeping it firmly in place and not letting any one religion rule the day. Mind you, I also don't want atheists making laws which would target religious people, either, telling them they can't practice something or go to a place of worship or whatever because what they practice and believe is wrong and not real. |
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#857 | ||
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,036
Local Time: 09:58 PM
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Quote:
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hope that helps. |
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#858 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: pig farming in Bolivia
Posts: 7,325
Local Time: 08:58 PM
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#859 | ||
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 07:58 PM
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Quote:
On the other hand, I can take a passage from the Bible and come to a completely different conclusion than another Christian. I think the president's theology is atrocious when he says, "For me, as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus’s teaching that ‘for unto whom much is given, much shall be required,’ ” I don't read that at all as as an endorsement of the "social gospel" of the Left, Big Government or reason enough to raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires. So two Christians can agree on the commission to 'love thy neighbor" and care for the poor but disagree completely on the most efficient and effective way to achieve those ends. Private charities supported by the individual compulsion of time and money vs. compulsory giving enforced by the IRS and funneled through the autonomy of government bureaucracy is how I would frame it but you might word that differently. ![]() In the end theology and ideology can both be based on faith and both can lead to truth. But truth is truth. And I rather like how the designers of the Supreme Court building show lawgivers from all over the world and throughout history. From Moses, Solomon, Charlemagne and Confucius to Blackstone to illustrate that. Quote:
How come we've never discussed anything in depth before? You're very interesting to trade posts with. ![]() |
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#860 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: pig farming in Bolivia
Posts: 7,325
Local Time: 08:58 PM
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Quote:
American Airlines to Cut Up to 15,000 Jobs - KiiiTV3.com South Texas, Corpus Christi, Coastal Bend American Airlines: We'll have 'many fewer' jobs - Feb. 1, 2012 add to that awful news, per CNN, some analysts are predicting $5 per gallon gas this summer: Gas prices: Rocky year ahead - Jan. 16, 2012 ![]() |
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