GOP Nominee 2012 - Who Will It Be?, Pt. 3 - Page 23 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-17-2012, 05:37 PM   #441
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here you go, again:

it is the quality of the individuals who have chosen to be parents together, not their opposing gender, that is the most important quality in creating happy, stable children.

you know, "content of their character" and all that.

but this is the GOP thread we're talking about. just wanted to point out that Santorum is peddling a line of frothy horseshit.
Yes, since it's the GOP thread...

call me anti-intellectual but if it's all the same to you I'm going to respectfully go with common sense, sageness and intuition over "studies show."
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Old 01-17-2012, 05:37 PM   #442
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I mean no disrespect, but I just wish to bring up this regarding the debate over which gender/sexual orientation is fit to be raising kids: WHO. CARES?

Seriously, as long as they're getting love and care and being fed and clothed and sheltered and all that good stuff, WHY does anything else matter? Why are people still so freaked out about this issue?
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Old 01-17-2012, 05:43 PM   #443
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The GOP is so worried about the welfare queens and broken inner-city homes (holmes?) comprised of single-parent minority families gaming the system, you figure they would be really happy to see some two-parent households, even if it's Mark and Steve or Rhonda and Penelope.

Kind of a catch-22 between conservative morality and opinions on minorities.

What's the way out, oh faith-based ones?


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call me anti-intellectual but if it's all the same to you I'm going to respectfully go with common sense, sageness and intuition over "studies show."
Does the common sense come down on the side of the earth being 5,000 years old and Jesus riding dinosaurs?
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Old 01-17-2012, 05:46 PM   #444
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Well, it's sort of like the whole deal about how they want people who can't take care of their kids to put them up for adoption...but then don't want a certain portion of the population adopting those kids because, oh, my god, it's two men or two women raising them! The horror!

Very confusing.
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Old 01-17-2012, 05:52 PM   #445
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Yes, since it's the GOP thread...

call me anti-intellectual but if it's all the same to you I'm going to respectfully go with common sense, sageness and intuition over "studies show."
"my gut is better than any of that research stuff!"
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Old 01-17-2012, 05:54 PM   #446
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you need a better metric

than "friend of Israel". Israel is not always a good friend.
You mean like when Israeli secret service agents pose as CIA operatives to recruit terrorists against Iran?

Happy to see our great friend Israel helping us to bring terrorism to the middle east.


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"my gut is better than any of that research stuff!"
Kind of explains one political side of this subforum, huh?
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:20 PM   #447
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call me anti-intellectual but if it's all the same to you I'm going to respectfully go with common sense, sageness and intuition over "studies show."

common sense, sageness, and intuition tell me that two people who really, really want to be parents and are willing to jump through any and all hoops necessary to do so, while at the same time likely being highly educated and having the means to pursue expensive things like adoption and/or AI, are going to be very, very, very good parents.

but i'm sure the straight kids on Teen Mom will prove me wrong.
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:44 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1131 View Post
The GOP is so worried about the welfare queens and broken inner-city homes (holmes?) comprised of single-parent minority families gaming the system, you figure they would be really happy to see some two-parent households, even if it's Mark and Steve or Rhonda and Penelope.

Kind of a catch-22 between conservative morality and opinions on minorities.

What's the way out, oh faith-based ones?




well said
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:56 PM   #449
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True...

(South Carolina does look gorgeous, though. I've seen things on TV about some of the more historical cities in that state-I'd like to visit them someday)
Actually North Carolina is my favorite of the two, with the Blue Ridge Mountains on one end of the state and the Outer Banks on the coast line. Its someplace i could retire.


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Agreed on Ron Paul.

I just still don't understand why people flock to the nutjobs. You can be conservative all you want, but isn't there a point when you listen to a Perry or Santorum or Gingrich and think, "Wow, this guy's a moron." Why not just go for a moderate who actually still values facts or intelligent conversation, why are the nutcases so appealing?


To answer your question, i guess, its because half of the base (if not more) are nutcases themselves. Therefore the wingnut candidates are their only earthly option.

I wouldn't necessarily call Santorum or Gingrich morons, crazy or perhaps evil would probably be better descriptions. Perry is a different story though. Maybe he's different off camera or back home in Texas. I suspect he's a very charming and charismatic guy, but the intellect doesn't translate well onto television.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:01 PM   #450
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Actually North Carolina is my favorite of the two, with the Blue Ridge Mountains on one end of the state and the Outer Banks on the coast line. Its someplace i could retire.
Oh, really?

I have an aunt and uncle who live out there. May have to pay their state a visit someday.

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To answer your question, i guess, its because half of the base (if not more) are nutcases themselves. Therefore the wingnut candidates are their only earthly option.
Guess so. It's just still so hard for me to reconcile the fact that people go for those sorts of candidates, even if on some level I know why they do. It just makes me sad.

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I wouldn't necessarily call Santorum or Gingrich morons, crazy or perhaps evil would probably be better descriptions. Perry is a different story though. Maybe he's different off camera or back home in Texas. I suspect he's a very charming and charismatic guy, but the intellect doesn't translate well onto television.
Heh, ah, well, I use the word "moron" because, honestly, that's about the most polite word I can think of to use towards those people. There's many more unflattering descriptions, but I'm too nice to say half of them .

Perry's a strange bird. He just reminds me so much of Bush, Jr. in so many ways, with his whole Texas persona and such, but...yeah. I remember seeing clips of his speech at New Hampshire a couple months or so ago and thinking, "...mmmmmmkay...".

He definitely does have a charm and charisma about him. Unfortunately, he uses it for things that aren't good, and it comes off kinda creepy.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:07 PM   #451
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common sense, sageness, and intuition tell me that two people who really, really want to be parents and are willing to jump through any and all hoops necessary to do so, while at the same time likely being highly educated and having the means to pursue expensive things like adoption and/or AI, are going to be very, very, very good parents.
I don't expect you to remember all my points in past threads but I largely agree with this. I've said, on average, 2 parents will be better for children than 1 parent. But that does not concede the existence of the mother/father ideal. Just as acknowledging the importance of parents who adopt children does not diminish biological parents as the natural parenting arrangement.
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Old 01-17-2012, 09:29 PM   #452
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I'm really trying to understand why the biological parents matter in the least. Just because of your gut, or "common sense"? What is so special about the biological parents? If a baby is born and adopted in infancy by two loving parents, gay or straight, how exactly will that baby know the difference?

Or do we just want everything to be natural because we like the way the word sounds?
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Old 01-17-2012, 09:36 PM   #453
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Just as acknowledging the importance of parents who adopt children does not diminish biological parents as the natural parenting arrangement.
Poor Jesus... Do you think he suffered from not being raised by his biological father?
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Old 01-17-2012, 09:42 PM   #454
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Good point .

It's sort of like when I see those parents throwing all their money into all these treatments to try and make themselves have a kid because they want a biological child. First off, forcing your body to do something that it apparently isn't wanting to do for one reason or another can't possibly be healthy, second, again, why is it so important this child MUST be biologically yours? Why not take all that money and put it towards taking in a child that needs a home?

Kids don't care about this shit, they just want to be taken care of. Why adults can't get this, I don't understand.
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Old 01-17-2012, 09:49 PM   #455
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Poor Jesus... Do you think he suffered from not being raised by his biological father?
he had an idenity crisis
and it did not end well for him
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:14 PM   #456
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Pfft, Jesus' own father gave him a death sentence.

Some dad.
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Old 01-18-2012, 03:59 AM   #457
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This fucking stupid debate about parenting - always completely irrelevant.

Same sex couples raise kids. They can, they do. Whether you think they're good at it, or whether it's right or not, is a completely different debate. If you think a kid having two dads or two mums is something lesser, or something wrong, that's a different debate. If you think there's just one jar of babies - it's a finite resource - and if the gays are sticking their hands in and taking some then there's going to be less for gods own heteros (which I think is part of what Santorum seems to think?) and thus some sort of holy defense needs to be mounted, then that's also a completely different debate.

Again... Same sex couples raise kids. They can, they do. The same sex marriage debate is just about whether or not that kids parents should be allowed to get married. Surely that's a conservative thing right? Better they get married? Given the stability (and sense of stability) and greater security that will provide the kid? Or to put it another way, whether or not they can get married has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they can have/raise kids together, it's just about allowing them to do so in the most stable, secure, conservative way, no?
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:04 AM   #458
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agreed. you really would think that conservatives would want as many people to be married and in committed relationships and having as boring sex as possible.

raising children is something separate from the marriage debate. one does not need to have children to be married, nor does one have to get married if one has children.

conservatives like Santorum, however, totally out of arguments, have posited the distortion of "kids do best with a mother and a father" and used it as an argument against same-sex marriage (not parenting). setting aside the fact that kids do better with 2 parents vs. 1, not hetero parents vs. homo parents, this is a distraction from the issue itself, which is the right to marry someone.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:26 AM   #459
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so how do we all feel about the fact that you likely paid much more of a percentage of your income last year than Mitt Romney did?

he paid about 15%.
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:32 AM   #460
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conservatives like Santorum, however, totally out of arguments
That's the point isn't it. They can't even find an argument - no matter how weak - that is actually on topic. It's all either completely irrelevant or completely illogical. And I think it's obvious that an ever increasing number of people are understanding exactly that, ie the anti's are actually selling the idea just as well (or better) than the pro's. So umm, keep it up Rick?
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