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Old 10-04-2011, 10:56 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by yolland View Post
Santorum said he didn't hear the boos, and James Fallows at The Atlantic reports speaking with an onstage assistant for one of the other candidates who stated they couldn't hear the booing onstage and that the candidate he worked for only realized it had happened while watching the replays afterwards. So it may not be a fair question to ask why none of the candidates responded to the booing.
So much for that theory...

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“I think we can hear the boos. I would tell you that in these debates there’s been a lot of booing and a lot of applause, cheering and booing — some of which I don’t agree with,” Romney said. “Now, I have not made it my practice to scold the audience and say, ‘I disagree with this person, I agree with that person’ because it goes in a lot of different directions. I don’t recall whether this soldier — whether people were booing his question or just…”
Herman Cain has since apologized for not speaking up when he heard the booing as well.
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Old 10-04-2011, 01:46 PM   #162
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my goodness.

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Cainmentum

Is the new Republican frontrunner Herman Cain? Maybe for this week anyway. PPP polled Republican primary voters in three pretty different states over the weekend- North Carolina, Nebraska, and West Virginia- and found Cain leading the way in each of them as Newt Gingrich surged, Mitt Romney stayed steady, and Rick Perry saw a collapse in his support.


Here are the numbers:

North Carolina: Cain 27, Romney/Gingrich 17, Perry 15, Paul/Bachmann 6, Santorum/Huntsman 2

Nebraska: Cain 30, Gingrich 16, Romney 13, Bachmann/Perry 10, Paul 5, Santorum 4, Huntsman 2

West Virginia: Cain 24, Gingrich 18, Romney 16, Perry 15, Bachmann 8, Paul 6, Santorum 3, Huntsman 1

Cain rises to the top

The thing fueling Cain's lead in all of these states is strong support from the furthest right segment of the Republican electorate. Cain is at 35% with 'very conservative' voters and has a 14 point lead over Perry with them in North Carolina. In Nebraska he's at 36% with them, putting him up 22 points over Gingrich and Perry. And in West Virginia he gets 25% with them, giving him a 9 point edge on Gingrich and Perry.

This most conservative group of Republican voters has been shopping for a candidate all year. They've gone from Huckabee to Trump back to Huckabee to Bachmann to Perry and now to Cain. I would expect their support for Cain to be pretty temporary. One thing that's been very clear through all these twists and turns though- they're not going to support Romney.

Whether Cain's surge is fleeting or not this much is true- he's up 18 points compared to a month ago in North Carolina when he was at 9% and he's up 18 points in West Virginia as well where he had previously been at 6%.


Newt surging?

Even more surprising than Cain's leading all three of these polls might be Gingrich's finishing second in each of them...and where his support is coming from. In both Nebraska (21-15 over Cain) and North Carolina (27-18 over Romney) he leads with moderates. Those voters have previously tended to give Romney first place status- it really says something about the state of the Republican field when Newt Gingrich becomes the choice for centrists.

Gingrich has better favorability numbers than front runners Romney and Perry in all three states. In North Carolina he's at +27 (58/31) to +19 for Romney (50/31) and +7 for Perry (44/37). In Nebraska he's at +17 (49/32) to +11 for Romney (45/34) and even for Perry (35/35). And in West Virginia he's at +24 (50/26) to +15 for Romney (42/27) and +13 for Perry (38/25).

This popularity for Gingrich is new found. His net favorability in NC is up 28 points from a month ago when he was actually on negative ground at 42/43. And he's up 19 points in West Virginia from 41/36 in September.

Perry's collapse

We haven't polled Nebraska since January when Perry wasn't really in the picture but we polled both North Carolina and West Virginia last month so it provides a point of easy comparison. Perry's support is down 20 points in North Carolina (from 35% to 15%) and 18 points in West Virginia (from 33% to 15%). He's had similarly catastrophic declines in his favorability numbers. He's dropped a net 37 points in North Carolina from +44 (61/17) to +7 (44/37). And he's declined 30 points in West Virginia from +43 (52/9) to +13 (38/25). Those are some pretty dramatic numbers.

Romney steady

While Cain and Gingrich have seen huge increases in their support and Perry a dramatic decline, Mitt Romney has stayed more or less in place. Last month in North Carolina he was in second place at 12%, now he's tied for second place at 17%. Last month in West Virginia he was in second place at 14%, now he's in third place at 16%. Going all the way back to January when we last polled Nebraska he was in 4th place at 15%, now he's in 3rd place at 13%. Romney's support has been pretty steady all year as folks have risen and fallen around him- the question is just whether that base of support is going to end up being enough to carry him to the nomination.

What about Christie?

We also tested iterations of these polls including Chris Christie- his standing in all three states is solid but not exactly spectacular. In North Carolina he was 2nd at 19%. In Nebraska he was 2nd at 19% as well. And in West Virginia he was 2nd at 17%. Given how desperate Republican voters seem to be for a new face, as evidenced by the constantly shifting poll numbers, I thought Christie would be in first place on these polls. You can argue that he and Cain have received the most 'new' media attention of any of these candidates in the last couple weeks and evidently Cain made a stronger impression on Republican primary voters than Christie. I'm not sure that would have boded particularly well for Christie's prospects further down the line.

Final Thoughts

The Republican race has always been pretty wide open, but never more so than it is now. The fact that Cain and Gingrich, pretty much given up for dead just a few weeks ago, could have this kind of poll surge is really indicative of how weak anyone's support is right now- very few Republican voters are strongly committed to a particular candidate and most of them can shift in a heart beat. I'll be pretty shocked if Cain is still leading our state polls a month from now but if there's any lesson to be learned from the GOP race at this point it's not to be surprised by anything. Two folks these polls are subtly good news for- Perry and Bachmann- because what they show is that just because you decline in the polls doesn't mean you can't come back. You can be the flavor of the week twice.

Cainmentum - Public Policy Polling

i know, it's early, blah blah blah. and i totally agree with all that.

but from what i've seen of the debates, Romney is clearly the class of the field. he towers above the rest of them.

what does this say about him? why this push for anybody but Romney?
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:17 PM   #163
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Did that really say "Newt Surging?"

Awesome!!!


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Old 10-04-2011, 03:05 PM   #164
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I think Perry could be done. He came in and was made Prom Queen,
when he took his dress off, they changed their minds.



this could be fun
if this turns into a two person race between Cain and Romney

we could have the core conservatives, tea party breaking for Cain
and the establishment GOP going for Romney
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:36 PM   #165
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Religion matters more to the Tea Party than race.
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:42 PM   #166
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it would be fun if it goes the distance
in 08, we had the good old Dems, mumbling to themselves:
"Woman or Negro?, woman or Negro?"

I'd like to have the good old GOP mumbling:
"Mormon or Negro?, Mormon or Negro?"
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:56 PM   #167
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Religion matters more to the Tea Party than race.
Those Tea Party crazies and their extreme philosophies. Race is incidental to a person's character? Where does an idea like that even come from?
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:04 PM   #168
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Those Tea Party crazies and their extreme philosophies. Race is incidental to a person's character? Where does an idea like that even come from?


saying you like Cain absolutely means you are not racist.

if even Tea Partiers like Cain, this proves that the only racism alive in the 21st century is racism against white people who are accused of being racist, i.e., "the race card," which is the most vile kind of racism there is.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:09 PM   #169
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^ or it's that keeping the blacks down isn't a priority to today's GOP because a new set of priorities have emerged:

Quote:
1. The GOP cares solely and exclusively about its rich contributors. The party has built a whole catechism on the protection and further enrichment of America's plutocracy. Their caterwauling about deficit and debt is so much eyewash to con the public. Whatever else President Obama has accomplished (and many of his purported accomplishments are highly suspect), his $4-trillion deficit reduction package did perform the useful service of smoking out Republican hypocrisy.
..
2. They worship at the altar of Mars. While the me-too Democrats have set a horrible example of keeping up with the Joneses with respect to waging wars, they can never match GOP stalwarts such as John McCain or Lindsey Graham in their sheer, libidinous enthusiasm for invading other countries.
....
3. Give me that old time religion. Pandering to fundamentalism is a full-time vocation in the GOP. Beginning in the 1970s, religious cranks ceased simply to be a minor public nuisance in this country and grew into the major element of the Republican rank and file
http://www.truth-out.org/goodbye-all...ult/1314907779
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:06 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Those Tea Party crazies and their extreme philosophies. Race is incidental to a person's character? Where does an idea like that even come from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
saying you like Cain absolutely means you are not racist.

if even Tea Partiers like Cain, this proves that the only racism alive in the 21st century is racism against white people who are accused of being racist, i.e., "the race card," which is the most vile kind of racism there is.
Many black people are homophobic (see about being on the down low) so of course that does not exclude them from also being racist.

Indy barely veils a retreat to his usual "Christian whites are the big victims of 21st century america" angle.
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Old 10-05-2011, 09:10 AM   #171
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Many black people are homophobic (see about being on the down low) so of course that does not exclude them from also being racist.


it also doesn't exclude them from being stupid.



Quote:
“I don’t see how any African-American with any inkling of history can say that you don’t have the right to live your life how you want to live your life. No one should be telling you who you should love, no one should be telling you who you should be spending the rest of your life with. When we start talking about equality and everybody being treated equally, I don’t want to know an African-American who will say everybody doesn’t deserve equality.” -- Michael Irvin

Out Magazine | Slideshows | Michael-Irvin-The-Playmaker-Preaches: Michael Irvin: The Playmaker Preaches
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:06 AM   #172
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The video won't work for me but Cain said being gay is a choice, I guess. And you thought he only knew about pizza.

It's bizarre to me that the GOP keeps going through this flavor of the month thing. They're supposed to want someone who can beat Obama but do they really just want someone who can beat Romney and that's why they're so confused? It seems to be that if it's beating Obama then Mitt is the obvious choice. But what do I know.
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:44 AM   #173
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Bachmann agrees with "impeach" Obama wish - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:46 AM   #174
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He said, "Show me the science," otherwise he's going to continue believing gay is a choice. As if the science isn't already there. As if gay people owe him an explanation as to why they could be so weird.
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Old 10-05-2011, 11:14 AM   #175
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seems Perry did raise a lot of money, though. $17m.
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Old 10-05-2011, 11:44 AM   #176
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Magnificent:

Election 2012: Generic Presidential Ballot - Rasmussen Reports

<>
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:06 PM   #177
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I'm surprised, I would have thought rasmussen could have developed a much bigger lead for republicans than just 6 points. They must be dropping the ball.
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:09 PM   #178
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"Who would you vote for, the current guy or other guy?"

"OTHER GUY!" "OTHER GUY!" "OTHER GUY!"
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:51 PM   #179
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that is all these elections ever come down to, choice Blue kitchen or Red kitchen, in about 5-7 states.

All this talk about individuals beliefs, religion, etc. don't matter

their will only be 2 items on the menu
and you will only be let in to choose at one certain time, so what's sounds good? or least bad?

nothing sounds good? no worries, others will choose for you and you still have to eat it. sure, you can choose something not on the menu, will that make you feel better? you will still end up eating item Blue or Red. and choosing the one you want? no guarantee, they will only be serving the one entre' that wins,

Welcome to the Hell's Kitchen selection process of selecting a President
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:56 PM   #180
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generic Republican?

there's a whole stage of them. why do they hate your boy Mittens?
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