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Old 12-15-2011, 09:51 AM   #861
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go Ron Paul, go!
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:27 AM   #862
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FOX's Chris Wallace--who will be moderating tonight's debate in Iowa--on Ron Paul's better-than-ever chances of winning in Iowa (per the Washington Post):
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Well, the Ron Paul people aren’t going to like my saying this, but to a certain degree it will discredit the Iowa caucuses because, rightly or wrongly, I think most of the Republican establishment thinks he’s not going to end up as the nominee and therefore Iowa won’t count and it will go on.
Really, "the Republican establishment thinks he's not going to end up as the nominee" therefore a win would "discredit" the Iowa caucuses?
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:45 AM   #863
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the "Republican establishment" certainly came out guns blazing today against Newt.

except for Rudy.
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Old 12-15-2011, 12:27 PM   #864
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Out of curiosity, where did the Tea Party go? How come they aren't out supporting someone? Or was the Tea Party Express strictly for nutjobs like Palin and Cain?
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Old 12-15-2011, 01:21 PM   #865
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Out of curiosity, where did the Tea Party go? How come they aren't out supporting someone? Or was the Tea Party Express strictly for nutjobs like Palin and Cain?
Fighting the war on Christmas?
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Old 12-15-2011, 01:37 PM   #866
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Out of curiosity, where did the Tea Party go? How come they aren't out supporting someone? Or was the Tea Party Express strictly for nutjobs like Palin and Cain?

they were out in force big time

you didn't see the polls

Perry blew up big, (before he self imploded)

Cain blew up big, (before his past and true self, imploded his chances)

now Tea Party has to figure out if it is who they are for,
that would be Bachmann or Santorum

or who they are against, if who they are against is a reelected Obama
they will most likely pull the lever for Gingrich, because his record of taking down liberal democrats, is better than the alternative, a Massachusetts Republican
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Old 12-15-2011, 02:04 PM   #867
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Well I meant after Cain was out, but yes. I too believe they wouldn't vote for someone from Taxachusetts, even if he was a Republican. Just far too many liberal bedfellows.
It's just weird that they haven't organized and come up with something yet. They put all their chips into the wrong baskets.

They really need a Republican Obama and they simply haven't found one yet. Every time one crops up (Jindal, for example) they inevitably say or do something stupid and fuck it up.

Honestly I think the Tea Party was the worst possible thing for the GOP. It cut them in half without actually cutting them in half. I suspect the same will happen to the Democrats (regarding OWS), but it won't happen until after 2012 because they desperately want to keep a Democrat in power. It would be nice to have four groups to choose from though.

Social/Economic Conservative
Social Liberal/Economic Conservative
Social Conservative/Economic Liberal
Social/Economic Liberal


Only in the nomination/race process. I think it would actually be worse in Congress if they didn't have a strict us or them attitude.
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Old 12-15-2011, 02:17 PM   #868
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Honestly I think the Tea Party was the worst possible thing for the GOP.
you seem to be forming your opinion solely on longevity, instead of accomplishments

Tea Party has one of the greatest political accomplishments ever,

look at the 2010 Congressional elections, and Govenorships wins, etc.

one of the biggest one party landslides ever, going back to the 30s or 40s?


I will admit to being a bit skeptical of the 2008 Obama Nation (Hope - Change) campaign



I can't dismiss their accomplishments in the 2008 elections, across the board.

By 2010m it had collapsed. That does not mean the Obama Nation movement was a mistake.

OWS, is worthless, they are a net loss for the Democrats
if the Democrats want to have success they need a more broad-base movement with more legitimacy, like Obama Nation 2008.
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Old 12-15-2011, 02:53 PM   #869
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I'm only looking forward, deep. The fact that the Tea Party has yet to put up a worthy candidate or throw their weight behind a current one spells a disaster for the GOP politically. A few months ago I would have said Obama had little chance at reelection, but it seems like the current GOP selection is trying their damnedest to do all of Obama's dirty work in discrediting each other.
I guess this can be said about every election cycle... so ignore this?
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:05 PM   #870
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Paul is a libertarian in GOP clothing.

I don't agree with him on a lot of things, but I have to hand it to him: he's a retired doctor with no corporate interests, he's not trying to parlay his political career into a private sector windfall, he's the only GOP candidate who is able to project the slightest bit of wisdom or thoughtfulness. No wonder he's being actively ignored by the party and the media.

It's a sad time when we dismiss the only candidate who is willing to speak honestly as "crazy old Dr. Paul".
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:08 PM   #871
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political movements come and go,
some have success, and some don't

I will say both Obama Nation 2008 and Tea Party 2010 were two of the more successful movements I have seen, compared to Ross Perot's 92 and 96 movements or even Nader's smaller movements, Jesse Jackson's Rainbow coalition movements is the 80s did lend support to the Democrats
I will also cite Human Rights movements aiding Clinton in 92 and 96.

Movements rise and fall,
in America only the two major parties seem to be pretty permanent, and that is a good thing. Looking at all these coalition Governments that collapse when a junior partner pulls out,
or worse yet, knuckle under to them, as we see in Israel with the crazies' hands on the steering wheel now.
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:13 PM   #872
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Go Cain!
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:05 PM   #873
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Cain dropped out

Did anyone see him singing Amazing Grace on the Barbara Walters special last night? I have to see if it's online somewhere.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:09 PM   #874
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Not from Barbara but it was this same exact verse, that must be his go to. I love that song too. He's definitely a much better gospel singer than Tim Tebow.

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Old 12-15-2011, 04:22 PM   #875
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ooh he said zany

Gingrich too 'zany' for White House, says Romney

(CNN) - Mitt Romney escalated his criticism of Newt Gingrich's temperament Wednesday, calling the former House speaker "zany" in an interview with The New York Times.

"Zany is not what we need in a president," Romney said, two days after he blasted Gingrich for his "erratic outspokenness."

In his sit-down with the newspaper, Romney said Gingrich's behavior served him well on the campaign trail, but would be disastrous in the White House.

"Zany is great in a campaign. It's great on talk radio. It's great in print, it makes for fun reading," Romney said. "But in terms of a president, we need a leader, and a leader needs to be someone who can bring Americans together."

Romney said his own nature would be better suited for a commander-in-chief.

"A leader needs to be someone of sobriety and stability and patience and temperance, to think through issues, to be careful in the choice of words he or she might express, because the world listens. The president of the United States is the leader of the free world, and our current president has been an enormous failure," Romney said.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:30 PM   #876
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I guess he didn't actually read the study



Rick Santorum blamed same-sex marriage for plummeting marriage rates, this morning, tweeting out this article about a new Pew marriage survey. The study found that “the number of married couples dropped a startling five percent between 2009 and 2010 and has declined by more than 20 percent since 1960.” Today, barely half of Americans over the age 18 are married. But Pew attributes the decline not to same-sex marriage — which would actually increase rates — but a combination of factors including: the social acceptance of cohabitation, a greater emphasis on higher education and career development, and the desire to develop financial independence before tying the knot.


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Old 12-15-2011, 04:35 PM   #877
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I guess he didn't actually read the study



Rick Santorum blamed same-sex marriage for plummeting marriage rates, this morning, tweeting out this article about a new Pew marriage survey. The study found that “the number of married couples dropped a startling five percent between 2009 and 2010 and has declined by more than 20 percent since 1960.” Today, barely half of Americans over the age 18 are married. But Pew attributes the decline not to same-sex marriage — which would actually increase rates — but a combination of factors including: the social acceptance of cohabitation, a greater emphasis on higher education and career development, and the desire to develop financial independence before tying the knot.




boo hoo gays are ruining the sanctity of marriage and not people like Kim Kardashian, loveless marriages, quickie divorces, and being married by Elvis in a casino.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:38 PM   #878
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It's a sad time when we dismiss the only candidate who is willing to speak honestly as "crazy old Dr. Paul".


he is the only Republican to speak to imperial overreach and criticize the military-industrial complex.

this is terrifying to where the GOP money comes from.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:44 PM   #879
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Newt Gingrich told the Des Moines Register’s editorial board this morning that gay people have a “significant range of choice within a genetic pattern” and can choose to be straight just like someone can “choose to be celibate.” The former House speaker, who opposes same-sex marriage, explained that there is a “big difference between saying that you’re to have an acceptance of people’s lifestyles and saying that you’re now going to normalize that as a standard for the whole country”:

Q: Do you believe that people choose to be gay?

GINGRICH: I believe it’s a combination of genetics and environment. I think both are involved. I think people have many ranges of choices. Part of the question is, do you want a society which has a bias in one direction or another?

Q: So people can then choose one way or another?

GINGRICH: I think people have a significant range of choice within a genetic pattern. I don’t believe in genetic determinism and I don’t think there is any great evidence of genetic determinism. There are propensities. Are you more likely to do this or more likely to do that? But that doesn’t mean it’s definitional.

Q: So a person can then choose to be straight?

GINGRICH: Look, people choose to be celibate. People choose many things in life. You know, there is a bias in favor of non-celibacy. It’s part of how the species recreates. And yet there is a substantial amount of people who choose celibacy as a religious vocation or for other reasons.

Gingrich also reiterated that he would reinstate Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell if elected President and suggested that military commanders have been pressured to accept the policy change. “I think that it would be a career ending conversation,” he said. “I don’t think that in the military you would particularly want sexual behavior to be an overt issue.”
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:53 PM   #880
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he is the only Republican to speak to imperial overreach and criticize the military-industrial complex.

this is terrifying to where the GOP money comes from.
I like his foreign policy proposals, but his domestic policy ideas would destroy what's left of this economy.
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