God is not to blame

[CrashedCarDriver]

for all the attrocities/ bad stuff in the world

god is not responsible for this Iraq war, which america went into unlawfully without the approval of the U.N

god does not insure there are repercussions of allied forces getting picked off one-by-one after the war is declared won

god did not make iraqi prisoners strip down naked (or tell them) and be treated inhumanely

it is the work, words and actions of PEOPLE

PEOPLE are petty, corrupt, they well dwell on the small, the frivolous in an attempt to give their 'lives' meaning

in this world we live in PEOPLE are easily distracted, an 'eternal struggle of power' is created, PEOPLE get put into separate categories for their age, race, sex, and they are discriminated against because PEOPLE need to fuel their need to feel superior

it does not have to boil down to the sad and attrocious happenings in the main world (ie Iraq), i was in a bar last night, for no certain reason PEOPLE want to be stupid trying to assert their territory because they were part of "a group" and "another group" did not like them, for no good reason

i am an adult, in the adult world situations like these really bother me because hate between PEOPLE that god created is unexplainable, god does not have a remote control and pressed a button to make two people hate each other

to put it in context of the world where if you go to a kindergarten where there are arab kids and jewish kids playing together (not in the middle east of course), they would not be able to tell the difference, and at that point they wouldnt be able to tell they could become the greatest of enemies when they are grown ups

i am an observer, nothing more nothing less, i have flaws, i have done things i am not proud of, but when you give the world a look on the grand scale. Why did god create such PEOPLE remains one of the universe's biggest mysteries, one would never be answered

 

[nbcrusader]

I think you need to define God (or god as you wrote) before you can continue with discussion.

 

[CrashedCarDriver]

surely there is a higher being who ensures the earth's biosphere is liveable for our species

that we have oxygen to breathe

that our earth is positioned perfectly that if we were a smidge off, and closer to the sun, we wouldnt be able to live because we'd fry to death, or if we were further, we would freeze

that we are given souls/ consciousnesses(!), the ability to think, the ability to communicate or seek to communicate

just a thought though :\

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

surely there is a higher being who ensures the earth's biosphere is liveable for our species

that we have oxygen to breathe

that our earth is positioned perfectly that if we were a smidge off, and closer to the sun, we wouldnt be able to live because we'd fry to death, or if we were further, we would freeze

that we are given souls/ consciousnesses(!), the ability to think, the ability to communicate or seek to communicate

just a thought though :\

Science can explain that stuff, too, though.

Angela

 

[WinnieThePoo]

surely there is a higher being who ensures the earth's biosphere is liveable for our species

that we have oxygen to breathe

that our earth is positioned perfectly that if we were a smidge off, and closer to the sun, we wouldnt be able to live because we'd fry to death, or if we were further, we would freeze

that we are given souls/ consciousnesses(!), the ability to think, the ability to communicate or seek to communicate

just a thought though :\

it's all about science , god is a word , he is in our minds , cause we invented him
there are 10000000000000000000000000's worlds like ours
there are pictures to prove that , rovers on mars
and that is not a fiction btw

 

[Saracene]

surely there is a higher being who ensures the earth's biosphere is liveable for our species

that we have oxygen to breathe

that our earth is positioned perfectly that if we were a smidge off, and closer to the sun, we wouldnt be able to live because we'd fry to death, or if we were further, we would freeze

If he was so concerned with out safety, then it's a puzzle why we were left on a planet with earthquakes, tornadoes, supervolcanoes, draught, floods, vulnerable to any decent-sized meteorite that happens to drop by for a cup of tea and prone to ice ages at long intervals,

 

[A_Wanderer]

We live in the best of all possible worlds. If a planet does not have suitible conditions for life non would exist and nobody would notice. Our existence is due only to the vastness of a universe that may or may not have a creator but does contain an infinite permutation of possibilities. In short, we can't blame a God that may or may not exist or use it as an excuse to justify human actions, we must fix what is wrong with the world. It's fucked up and the only way it's going to get any better is if we all work for a better world ourselves.

As for numbers of habitable worlds....
>It is fair to say that within the observable universe 13 billion light years in any direction there is mostly normal matter and dark matter.
>The elements that exist are probably homogenous throughout the universe.
>The forces that exist have the same effect on the elements.
>Processes that created the earth are likely to occur all around the universe and on one of these planets it is quite possible higher forms of life have evolved.
>We have not heard any little green men yet on radio, this could mean several things. 1) Their signals have not yet reached us. 2) Their signals reached long ago and they have sinced been destroyed. 3) They don't use radio waves to transport information and instead have developed a superluminal data transmission deviece.

either way I doubt that we are alone in the vastness of the universe however I fear that until mankind solves it's problems there is a very real threat as a race we will never move away from our "pale blue dot".

 

[nbcrusader]

it's all about science , god is a word , he is in our minds , cause we invented him
there are 10000000000000000000000000's worlds like ours
there are pictures to prove that , rovers on mars
and that is not a fiction btw

Of course, this statement is based on faith....

 

[Klaus]

Of course, this statement is based on faith....

Why do you think so NBC? I'm sure WinnieThePoo can proof this scientifically to us

 

[STING2]

I suggest everyone here get the book "Rare Earth", it explains with a large amount of evidence why Earth might be one of a a tiny number of planets if not the only planet that has the conditions to sustain "Complex Lifeforms".

When you start to understand the Earth's physical history, you begin to understand how delicite and precise the conditions have to be for there to be "Complex Lifeforms".

Take Galaxy's for example. Most Galaxy's are eliptical and typically lack stars lack several things required for the formation of Solar Systems. In Spiral Galaxy's, only stars far from the center, but far from the edge as well are positioned and have the right elements for Solar System formation.

Then most solar systems have planets that do not follow a rotation that is circular and on the same plane. Most of the planets will have different rotations that create havoc for any of the planets closer to the star where complex life could be formed.

If any Solar System is to have complex life, it needs a Jupiter sized planet to clear out all the rocks left over from the solar systems planet formation period. Without such a Jupiter sized planet in a non-disruptive orbit, there would simply be to much havoc in order for complex life to form on the inner planets of the Solar System.

Most people don't realize how vital the Moon is to the existence of complex lifeforms here on earth. Without the Moon in its current position, you would not have the seasons and the Earth would likely be spinning with one of its poles always facing the sun. The Moon was formed early in the Earth's history from the collision with a smaller planet. The Moons' position relative to the Earth has been vital to the formation of "complex lifeforms here on Earth.

These are just a few of the things that show how amazing it is that "complex life" even exist on earth and why it is likely to be rare anywhere else in the Universe if it is there at all.

It probably does exist elsewhere, but it is a fraction of a fraction in the numbers that most people presume it to be. "Complex lifeforms" are very difficult to make and the idea that all it takes is water and some protein and boom a few million years later you have little people walking around is false. It takes far more than most people realize to get to that point. The difficulty in getting to that point helps one realize how truely rare and amazing the existence of "complex life" really is.

 

[AcrobatMan]

god create such PEOPLE remains one of the universe's biggest mysteries

I doubt it, the converse looks true to me



I am serious

 

[LoveTown]

Just my personal thoughts, nothing more. Yes, science can explain many things. There are other things it can't. For me, God equals hope, and the strength to keep trying to pick my head up when life gets to be too much. I don't want science to try to explain away that feeling.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

I think this is regarding "The Evil Argument".

It is actually quite easy to explain.

There is even no need to resort to The Bible to answer this issue. The world itself answers it through an anecdote. (this is a story someone in my church told me when I posed a similar question

One day, a Christian man goes to the barber shop to get his hair cut. The barber is a questioning non-believer. He begins questioning his client about his beliefs and he says ?Well, if God is so good, so perfect, so loving, why does he allow people to be bad??

The Christian client was new in his faith and did not have the wisdom that can mostly come from reading The Bible consistently to answer this question. The Christian himself felt confused about the issue that the barber brought up. The barber finishes cutting his hair and seeing as though he had no more clients for the moment, they both walk out for a soda.

On the way to the vending machine, they see a hairy man walking alone. His beard was unshaven and his hair was long and his appearance did not look very appealing. After seeing this man, the Christian asks the barber ?I wonder how can there be people that look like that in the world?? The barber thought this was a silly question and answered ?That is quite simple, there are people who look like that because they don?t come to the barber.? The barber then understood why there is evil in the world.

I hope I explained it well. (english is my second language. )

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Your story assumes that only people who aren't Christian bring evil into the world. Picking up a history book, or taking a cursory glance at today's world political situation would quickly prove that statement inaccurate.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

Work with me here.

 

[annj]

In the bible it says return evil for evil to no one, it also says for you to love you enemy and hate what is bad, if God gives us these instructions, and we ignore them then who is to blame?

you can either apply these scriptures or you can ignore them and do what you want, but there will be consquences for those actions that includes those who claim they are christians,

but if you imagine God is up there and is ignoring all the evil that people claim to do in his name you are very wrong.. they are being judged even harder than those who are not he doesn't judge us by the fact we just claim we are a christian, but its how we live our lives on this earth and how we treat our fellow human beings while we are here

he set certain standards in the bible give us instructions on the best way to avoid hurting ourselves and our fellow humans (a fine example the ten commandments)
ignore these and you are ignoring God and the claim that you love him becomes hypocritical as many non believers can end up pointing out and bringing reproach on him which is why it says in the bible he who thinks he is standing.. beware

we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of god and we are all judged the same in Gods eyes

if you wish to discuss this this with me futher I would prefer you email me at annjane38@hotmail.com as I have found out it gets too confusing on the forums to address your replies

 

[carrieluvv]

Just my personal thoughts, nothing more. Yes, science can explain many things. There are other things it can't. For me, God equals hope, and the strength to keep trying to pick my head up when life gets to be too much. I don't want science to try to explain away that feeling.


right on.

 

[carrieluvv]

what LT said.

I guess its easy to think that way when you live up here in new england...but there is so much despair in the world .

 

[hiphop]

God is not respnsible for the pain we create.

He gave us free will. We are responsible.

Open your eyes and look what we make of the biggest present of all, Mother Nature can hardly breathe and love turns to hate.

I like Crashed Car Drivers post, simply bc it illustrates the fact that men are the worst race on this planet.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

I just got this as a FWD in my email:

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).
Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.
And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"
In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.
Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.
Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves..
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

 

[melon]

That's absolutely ridiculous. Ridiculous. Anne Graham makes those comments, assuming that her brand of evangelical Christianity will be the one introduced in schools and government, etc. But what would Anne Graham say if Roman Catholicism took over? What would Anne Graham say if Protestant students were forced to say the "Hail Mary" or pray the Rosary? What would Anne Graham say if Islam took over? It is one of the fastest growing religions in the United States, and, in some areas of the nation (I'm looking at you, Dearborn, MI), it is already predominantly Muslim.

But I should also say that I distrust e-mail forwards. There's a good chance that Jane Clayson didn't ask such an infantile question and there's a good chance that Anne Graham didn't make such ridiculous comments.

But I can find out for myself, thanks to the beauty of internet as well. This is what was really said:

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/wheregod.htm

Jane Clayson: I've heard people say, those who are religious, those who are not, if God is good, how could God let this happen? To that, you say?

Anne Graham Lotz: I say God is also angry when he sees something like this. I would say also for several years now Americans in a sense have shaken their fist at God and said, God, we want you out of our schools, our government, our business, we want you out of our marketplace. And God, who is a gentleman, has just quietly backed out of our national and political life, our public life. Removing his hand of blessing and protection. We need to turn to God first of all and say, God, we're sorry we have treated you this way and we invite you now to come into our national life. We put our trust in you. We have our trust in God on our coins, we need to practice it.

I think it is utterly ridiculous. Completely, utterly ridiculous. We have one attack on U.S. soil over 63 years--139 years on the continental U.S.--and we act as if the sky is falling. Compared to many nations around the world, we are lucky. We are damn lucky. And what is our response? To make arrogant comments like the one above. For shame. Exploiting God in the face of national tragedy...if I were God, I would find that unforgivable. But it is probably for the best that I am not God.

Just as many people in 9/11 just died Haiti and the Dominican Republic in the last week. And do we, as an American public, mourn for them, just as we expected the entire world to do for us three years ago? No, we sit back glibly, just as self-absorbed as always. We have so many blessings everyday, and while it is unfortunate that events like 9/11 happen, we must not forget how damn lucky we have been and still are.

Here's the entire transcript of that interview, BTW:

http://www.cbsnews.com/earlyshow/healthwatch/healthnews/20010913terror_spiritual.shtml

Her quote appears to have been taken out of context. She says, in effect, that those who expect God to give them "protection" cannot simultaneously reject God. But that is more of a personal issue, not an issue where conservative Christianity should be forced into a pluralistic nation like the United States.

Melon

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

You make great points, melon. I hadn't commented on what I posted but I was curious to see what the people over at FYM would say about it.

Your posts always go against mine but somehow I still enjoy your opinions.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Thanks for clearing it all up, melon.

I've read that e-mail many a time, too, and it irritates me to no end, because someone could be the most religious person in the world and yet still act like a total creep.

Angela

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

I think whoever wrote the email somehow does have a point though...

*runs and ducks behind a rock*

 

[melon]

I think whoever wrote the email somehow does have a point though...

*runs and ducks behind a rock*

I'd expect no different from you...on both accounts.

Melon

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

Well, your argument against what the email says is that the religion that person embraces isn't the absolute one for everyone. However, there is no way you can prove that this person's theory for why everything is so messed up is wrong.

 

[melon]

However, there is no way you can prove that this person's theory for why everything is so messed up is wrong.

There is no way that you can prove that there isn't an invisible leprechaun under my bed either, whom only I can see.

That's the absolute beauty of mythic speech; it is designed to be inarguable.

Melon

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

But see a leprechaun is absolutely ridiculous.

A belief, a dogma, a way of life is much bigger than that. If you have not lived it then you cannot judge it.

 

[melon]

But see a leprechaun is absolutely ridiculous.

Prove it.

A belief, a dogma, a way of life is much bigger than that. If you have not lived it then you cannot judge it.

I would say that about people who condemn homosexuals. If you have not lived it, then you cannot judge it.

Melon

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

Homosexuality is physical. God is a spiritual experience. Entirely differnt playing fields.