God and Man/Man and God - Questions

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80s, and this is the last time I will respond to this so if it makes you feel better you can have the last word:

I have too experienced near misses with death, in fact more than once. A car that I was driving spinning out of control at 140 kph for a distance of half a km finally coming to rest immediately parallel up against a concrete guardrail, barely touching it. Did I believe that God's spirit reached out and stopped my car? No. Did I get out of my car and get down on my knees and thank God that I was still alive? You'd better believe it!

It has been easy to get to know you over a short time 80s. You are easily one of the more prolific posters, at least on Free Your Mind, and by and large I have enjoyed alot of your thoughts. I just think you should avoid the frustration that seems clearly evident when people don't necessarily believe as you do.

Again, just my opinion...maybe the real case is that people aren't necessarily deliberately attacking your faith, they are just posting their opinions, just as you do?

Gabriel


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"...well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"
BTBS, Rattle and Hum
 
Originally posted by gabrielvox:
80s, and this is the last time I will respond to this so if it makes you feel better you can have the last word:

I have too experienced near misses with death, in fact more than once. A car that I was driving spinning out of control at 140 kph for a distance of half a km finally coming to rest immediately parallel up against a concrete guardrail, barely touching it. Did I believe that God's spirit reached out and stopped my car? No. Did I get out of my car and get down on my knees and thank God that I was still alive? You'd better believe it!
I dion't care if it's the last word or not. feel free to respond; in fact, I sure wish you would, because I would like you to respond to the following:

Your situation was totally different than mine, although I believe your situation might just be a miracle, also. Here's the difference...my situation doesn't involving actually having the accident and somehow surviving miraculously. I received DIRECT instruction to stop the car even though there was no one else in the car, and even though it appeared that everything was proceeding as usual. How do you not see a miracle in that?
 
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
I didn't "deserve" those miracles anymore than your sister. In fact, I have three times in my life where I would have asked for a miracle but didn't get them. Would you like to hear them?
My brother was also killed in a car wreck. At the age of 31. He had a wife and two young children. But I'm not angry at God for that. I know that God did not cause that accident.
Less than a year later, my son died, 8 hours after birth. But I'm not angry at god for that.
3 years later, my father died (4 years after the miracle). But I am not angry at God for that.
Why are you angry at God because he gives some people miracles? When I hear about other people who have been miraculously saved in a car accident, I don't curse God for saving them but not my brother. I rejoice, and praise God for saving someone's life.
Just as I rejoiced when God saved my dad and when he whispered in my ear to stop at the light.


So it's god's work when something god happens, but he's not involved when bad things happens? That's just silly. You're picking and choosing when he's involved and when he's not, to suit your beliefs.

Riddle me this, why did he save you and not your brother? No need to answer, it's a stupid question, without an answer. I just think the whole 'god saved' me stuff it complete nonsense.

I was driving home drunk one night, and someone ran a red light and missed me by a few feet. I'm still here, and my sister is not. If anyone deserved to buy it, it was me, not her. God? - I think not.

Make your argument that God is the creator and that man is the one fucking things up, but don't give me that 'God is watching' bullshit.
 
Well, 80s, I can give you the answer, but you will find a way to take offense to it, this much I do know about you already.

Another time I almost died was when a 78 Caprice Classic boat of a car broadsided me when I was 19, driving a pop can tin import. At the last second I saw headlights, and something inside me told me to jump over the gear shift (I wasnt wearing a seat belt, why I still cant explain) to the passengers side. The whole left side of the car was crushed into the gear box, and my legs were trapped on the driver's side but my body was safe on the other side. I pulled my legs free, kicked out the back window and dragged myself out of my burning car (which would later explode) onto the ground. When the police arrived they asked where the driver was, and I raised my hand. He didn't believe me until a witness said it was me, that's how mangled the car was. I had not a scratch except for where breaking the window had scraped my shins, and I walked away and went home. The next morning I tried to walk and fell and couldn't walk again for 2 months. Do I think God whispered in my ear, telling me to move across the car? I'd like to think it was a little bit of last second survival instinct. Did God strengthen my legs to get me home that night? Maybe, but there is a little thing called adrenaline that works wonders sometimes too.

You heard something tell you that you should stop your car. You heard something tell you that the right thing to do was pray to God, which by the way, is of course the right thing to do in a situation like that. Your opinion is that God spoke to you. My opinion is that God didn't speak to you. You may have heard a voice, but I doubt it was God. There are people that you can discuss voices in your head with though...JOKE!!! :p

I'm curious to know, however, does God also speak to you at times when you aren't facing a life or death crisis? Has he given you his thoughts on the whole Israeli/Palestinian thing? I mean, typically alot of the times we read in the bible where God actually spoke to a human being were usually in dreams, with alot of prophecy and commandments being the main topics..and that's the type of conversations with God that I believe in.

Gabriel


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"...well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"
BTBS, Rattle and Hum
 
Originally posted by RufusYoungblood:

(1)So it's god's work when something god happens, but he's not involved when bad things happens? That's just silly. You're picking and choosing when he's involved and when he's not, to suit your beliefs.
I was driving home drunk one night, and someone ran a red light and missed me by a few feet. I'm still here, and my sister is not. If anyone deserved to buy it, it was me, not her. God? - I think not.
(2)Make your argument that God is the creator and that man is the one fucking things up, but don't give me that 'God is watching' bullshit.
I'll answer by number:

(1)Yes, when something good happens, it is often God interceding. However, when something bad happens, it cannot be blamed on God. God does good. Devil does bad. And sometimes bad things happen to good people. Man has free will and often does bad, also. But God does never do bad. He often allows bad things to happen, but he doesn't cause them. As simple as that sounds, it's the truth. And it's not "picking and choosing" to suit my beliefs - it's in the Bible.

(2)God is not only watching, but he takes an active role in our lives, if you'll let him. He often does it whether we let him or not. Yes, man does screw things up, because we have free will. But God does often pull our fat out of the fryer, whether we deserve it or not.

Some things do happen by chance. But not all things. I don't know why your sister died in a car accident. I don't know why my brother did. Perhaps there was no reason for eaither of those deaths. Surely, if you felt as bad as I did (which I am sure you did), it devastated you. But I am as sure as a man can be (without actually getting a verbal answer from God) that God caused the accident of neither my brother nor your sister.
 
Originally posted by gabrielvox:
Well, 80s, I can give you the answer, but you will find a way to take offense to it, this much I do know about you already.

Another time I almost died was when a 78 Caprice Classic boat of a car broadsided me when I was 19, driving a pop can tin import. At the last second I saw headlights, and something inside me told me to jump over the gear shift (I wasnt wearing a seat belt, why I still cant explain) to the passengers side. The whole left side of the car was crushed into the gear box, and my legs were trapped on the driver's side but my body was safe on the other side. I pulled my legs free, kicked out the back window and dragged myself out of my burning car (which would later explode) onto the ground. When the police arrived they asked where the driver was, and I raised my hand. He didn't believe me until a witness said it was me, that's how mangled the car was. I had not a scratch except for where breaking the window had scraped my shins, and I walked away and went home. The next morning I tried to walk and fell and couldn't walk again for 2 months. Do I think God whispered in my ear, telling me to move across the car? I'd like to think it was a little bit of last second survival instinct. Did God strengthen my legs to get me home that night? Maybe, but there is a little thing called adrenaline that works wonders sometimes too.

You heard something tell you that you should stop your car. You heard something tell you that the right thing to do was pray to God, which by the way, is of course the right thing to do in a situation like that. Your opinion is that God spoke to you. My opinion is that God didn't speak to you. You may have heard a voice, but I doubt it was God. There are people that you can discuss voices in your head with though...JOKE!!! :p

I'm curious to know, however, does God also speak to you at times when you aren't facing a life or death crisis? Has he given you his thoughts on the whole Israeli/Palestinian thing? I mean, typically alot of the times we read in the bible where God actually spoke to a human being were usually in dreams, with alot of prophecy and commandments being the main topics..and that's the type of conversations with God that I believe in.
Gabriel
Gabriel, I don't take offense at what you wrote. But that accident you describe is STILL nothing like mine. You said you saw headlights and something told you to jump over the gear shift. That may have been a miracle, I don't know. But there is still a big difference in our situations. If you wanted to make the case that your situation was not a miracle, that would be more plausible, because you said something told you to jump over the gearshift AFTER you saw the headlights. The headlights told you "danger!", so the something that told you to jump may have well been a natural instinct to survive (or it may have well been God). But in my situation, there was no indicator that anything was wrong whatsoever, so that can not be boiled down to survival instinct. As I relayed in my "miracle" story, I didn't get this message just once. It argued with my mind, which based on what my eyes were seeing, was telling me everything was okay. This happened over the span of anywhere from 5 to 15 seconds. This was not a split second thing. One of the main points that makes it such an odd occurrence and miraculous is taht I was receiving strong instruction that was completely contrary with what I could see happening with mine own eyes, but after obeying the instruction, I saw that if I had not obeyed , I would be dead.
And yes, I believe God has given me dreams before. Not often, but yes he has spoken to me in thet way before.
Look, I'm not saying that God constantly interacts in my life in these ways all the time. All I'm telling you is that they did happen. You can not say they were not miracles because you were not there. Oh but I forgot, you know everything about me, based on the posts you read of mine for an hour straight.
 
Originally posted by gabrielvox:

Keep us posted on the next time God speaks to you, I'd love to hear whats on His mind recently. Are you some sort of prophet or something? What a rare privilege. If I were you, I wouldnt be wasting my time on an internet bulletin board, I'd be forming my own church, what with my direct line to God and all...


Gabriel, 80sU2 kind of has a point about being tolerant about what others believe. Your sarcastic comment above comes across as mainly just being mean. I'd recommend you listen to some of your own advice, and not get too worked up about this. Clearly you believe in God. It may be your opinion that in this instance he didn't involve himself in any way with 80sU2. Ok. That's fair. 80sU2 believes otherwise. If you really felt a need to disagree with him about this, I think you could have expressed your opinion in a much less abrasive way.
 
On the issue of God with "good" and "bad" circumstances:

I think we often believe that God simply is here to please us, and, honestly, I wish it were true as well. However, "bad" is just as much a part of the growth of human experience as "goodness."

For instance, I was depressed for well over 10 years of my life (and still dealing somewhat with it). Seeing that I'm only 21, I do feel somewhat that my youth was totally robbed from me. However, what I learned during those 10 years I have found invaluable; things I can guarantee I'd never have learned unless I had been depressed.

Certainly, I often wish my life had been "perfect," but when faced with hard situations, you often learn something that you would never have learned otherwise. Unfortunately, we've learned some especially harsh lessons in the last century.

Melon

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"Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy
 
Originally posted by CannibalisticArtist:
you have to realise that if God did exist then God would be in control of everything, good and evil. after all, God made the devil, the epitome of all evil.
even if you believe in God, you don't have to love God, just like you don't have to follow your leader. God would be just another entity, that you could choose to love/hate depending on your feelings towards God.
can i quote myself again?
 
Originally posted by gabrielvox:

Just for the interest of other more reasonable people, there have been numerous studies that have shown that most "encounters" with God are completely explainable psychological phenomena.

Gabriel

References? Consider your bluff called.
 
Whatever, look, its all good to take me to task for being intolerant, but its one of THE ULTIMATE FORMS OF RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE as far as Im concerned to denounce someone and call them a false Christian or not up to par, just because they don't see God the same way you do.

That is what 80s has been doing since I opened my mouth and if your little circle doenst see it (dont worry, Ive read how a few of you immaturely and self-servingly thank each other for 'getting my back') I really could care less.

The difference between the way I believe and the way he believes is that I believe that he can believe whatever he wants, and as long as he keeps the two greatest commands that Jesus gave us, he'll be OK in God's eyes, even if he is wrong about the doctrines he so strictly followed. He, on the other hand, believes that unless I believe as he does, I am a false Christian who will not be saved.

Now THAT is intolerance!

Gabriel


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"...well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"
BTBS, Rattle and Hum
 
Originally posted by gabrielvox:
and if your little circle doenst see it (dont worry, Ive read how a few of you immaturely and self-servingly thank each other for 'getting my back') I really could care less.

Look! Gabriel has figured us out! Yes, we have a "little circle," The Cult of 80sU2IsBest, or, as some call us, "Nine Bastards Dressed In Black." We basically go around spreading The Gospel According to 80sU2IsBest and then "get each others' backs" for it and return thanks. Wanna join?

~U2Alabama
 
Keep us posted on the next time God speaks to you, I'd love to hear whats on His mind recently. Are you some sort of prophet or something? What a rare privilege. If I were you, I wouldnt be wasting my time on an internet bulletin board, I'd be forming my own church, what with my direct line to God and all...

Just for the interest of other more reasonable people, there have been numerous studies that have shown that most "encounters" with God are completely explainable psychological phenomena.

Gabriel
 
Originally posted by gabrielvox:

Keep us posted on the next time God speaks to you, I'd love to hear whats on His mind recently. Are you some sort of prophet or something? What a rare privilege. If I were you, I wouldnt be wasting my time on an internet bulletin board, I'd be forming my own church, what with my direct line to God and all...
Just for the interest of other more reasonable people, there have been numerous studies that have shown that most "encounters" with God are completely explainable psychological phenomena.
Gabriel
If you truly believe in God, why do you limit his powers, by saying he doesn't perform this miracle or he doesn't perform that miracle?
That is so funny that you accuse me of being intolerant of others' beliefs, but you say things like this, that obviously show that you have no tolerance for my belief in miracles.

[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 04-16-2002).]
 
Originally posted by U2Bama:
Look! Gabriel has figured us out! Yes, we have a "little circle," The Cult of 80sU2IsBest, or, as some call us, "Nine Bastards Dressed In Black." We basically go around spreading The Gospel According to 80sU2IsBest and then "get each others' backs" for it and return thanks. Wanna join?
~U2Alabama
Spiral, Thanks for getting my back! Bama, thanks to you for getting my back, also!
I'm writing it down in my ledger as we speak. I owe you both a back-getting.
As far as our practice of wearing black is concerned, you gotta love the fashion-It's so Johnny Cash-ish.
 
Well at least you actually read my post this time Bama, good for you.

Too bad you missed the intolerance part. One day you should ask that individual what God has told him will happen to those who don't believe as he does. Then you'll find out just how tolerant most 'christian' religions are.

Gabriel




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"...well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"
BTBS, Rattle and Hum
 
Originally posted by gabrielvox:
Whatever, look, its all good to take me to task for being intolerant, but its one of THE ULTIMATE FORMS OF RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE as far as Im concerned to denounce someone and call them a false Christian or not up to par, just because they don't see God the same way you do.
That is what 80s has been doing since I opened my mouth and if your little circle doenst see it (dont worry, Ive read how a few of you immaturely and self-servingly thank each other for 'getting my back') I really could care less.
The difference between the way I believe and the way he believes is that I believe that he can believe whatever he wants, and as long as he keeps the two greatest commands that Jesus gave us, he'll be OK in God's eyes, even if he is wrong about the doctrines he so strictly followed. He, on the other hand, believes that unless I believe as he does, I am a false Christian who will not be saved.
Now THAT is intolerance!
Gabriel
You have a FUNNY way of remembering things...you remember them in a way that didn't happen at all. Looks like I will have to remind you who was targeting who. I woke up yesterday morning and found the following two posts aimed at me. I hadn't written to you at all before this, and you admitted you had gleaned sufficient information about me from reading my posts for an hour straight. Here are the two post which you used to so politely introduce yourself to me:

(1)-from this thread: That's what makes a belief in God such a hard sell...people who attribute things to God. God didn't save 80s ass anymore than he saved that WTC survivor that walked out of a building that 2000+ people perished in...or were those people hopeless cases in His eyes? Cmon!

(2)-from another thread - OK, 80s, Ive been graced with reading alot of your posts over the last hour and I have to say that really, its not worth it. You seem to get quite worked up when you cant convert others to your way of thinking. Ive been down that path and its just a waste of time, and not worth it. There are MILLIONS of people out there that think that the whole story is a crock of shit (IM NOT ONE OF THEM) and you will never convince them by beating them into submission with your Bible. As Bono sings 'let it go!'!

You see, you have been targeting me from the beginning! When I said that a religion that denies the deity of Christ is not a Christian denomination, I was saying what I believe. I would have said it to anyone. It was nothing personal. Did I say, "gabrielvox, you don't measure up?", or "gabrielvox, you are going to hell?" NO, I didn't, but that's what you are telling everyone I said. You need to start relating things the way they really happened. My disagreements with you have been on purely religious issues, but for you it has been personal - you sought me out from the beginning; you were gonna come onto this forum and "bust my chops", weren't you?


[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 04-17-2002).]
 
BLAH BLAH BLAH...hey 80s, why do you so conveniently ignore when someone apologizes to you, but keep account of the injury with pithy quotes? I'll say it again, I was encouraging you not to get so worked up, and you do, and you still are. YOU responded to that with 'oohh you are such a mystery, how can you claim to be Christian' etc etc blah blah (man your existence is pathetic if you have time to go searching for quotes). Now you call me a hypocrite!! I love it, any other names you'd like to call me? Here's one that more aptly fits you: SELF-RIGHTEOUS JERK.

I didn't have to wait for you to say those things specifically, I saw you coming a mile away. I didn't target you, you repeatedly told the group that anybody who denied the deity of Christ is a false Christian. As if you are some authority on what a true Christian is. It doesnt take a genius to see that you were aiming that comment squarely at me. I grew up with 'christians' of your ilk for the first 20 years of my life and I know more about your beliefs than you think.

Anyways, see if you can resist quoting my entire post again without addressing any of it specifically (damn that is SO annoying) and answer the questions I posed earlier. What of YOUR intolerance? What will happen to me on judgement day if I dont believe as you? Or maybe you don't want the group to see just how intolerant your religion is?

Im done with you, and you should be with me. Youre preaching to the converted. Train your sites on the atheists and the 'pagans', OK? I AM saved, regardless of your opinion. Honestly, I do believe that you could have recieved direction from God. I just refused to acknowledge it because you refused to acknowledge that I could be saved. Tell you what: you admit the possibility that I am saved and I'll admit the possibility that God could have spoken to you.

As I mentioned to you in another post that you ignored, I'm glad that your faith is so strong and rooted. May it bode you well in the final analysis when and if Jesus' evaluation of us is done based on exactly how we believed.

Gabriel

'religion is what's left when God leaves the room' - Bono
 
I was wondering 80s, are you just as fanatic in defending your faith in real life as you are here?
 
Originally posted by DrTeeth:
I was wondering 80s, are you just as fanatic in defending your faith in real life as you are here?

Yes, I am. It's the most important thing in my life. Therefore, when someone says that "This or that miracles didn't happen to me", even though they don't know me, it chaps my hide. Or, when they say that Jesus didn't claim to be God, when he most certainly did, I feel like I have a duty to correct them. But you know, Dr Teeth, your question to me has made me think of something I never thought of before. There are a hodge podge of different ideas in this forum. You and I have had our disagreements for sure. In real life, the people I have these discussions know me, and we're not as apt to get in heated discussions. However, in this forum no one knows me personally, so why do i feel it is my duty to make them see things the way I do? I believe 100% that Christ is God, but really, what should be my approach - should I argue them to death, or pray that they will see the truth? I think I should have been doing the latter. Jesus himself didn't engage in the back and forth heated arguments that I have been participating in. I should not have been engaging in this tit for tat discussion. And I apologize.
Thanks, Dr. Teeth. I bet you didn't know that by writing your question, you would convict me of my wrongdoing. But you did, and I thank you for that.
 
gabrielvox, you misquoted me. I didn't say "how can you claim to be a Christian". I said the following two things, which (whether you believe it or not) were not assuming anything...they were honest questions:

1)"you claim to be a Christian, and yet in that same thread, you raked me over the coals for being offended by an article insulting Christianity."

2)"How can you be a Christian and not believe in miracles?"

But, you're right that you apologized, and you're right that I ignored. I hate it when I apologize to people and they keep bringing the wrong back up. I certainly don't want to do that, and I apologize. I'm glad Christ doesn't keep bringing up things I have done that have wronged him.

I realized something when I was writing my response to Dr Teeth, so please read that as well as what I am about to say here. I wholeheartedly believe that a belief in the deity of Christ is absolutely necessary to be saved, and I also believe that you made many wrong assumptions about me and accusations toward me, but I should not have continued on in this debate. It just gets ugly, and defeats what should be my purpose of spreading the Gospel. I believe I have sinned in much of my attitude toward you. I ask God and you to forgive me.
 
I have a scripture for you to read 80s, but out of a wish not to embarrass you any further I will simply name it and you can read it in private: Matthew 6, vs 1 thru 7.

On that basis, because you once more used your apology as a chance to restate your belief that I am not saved, and because you have obstinately refused to acknowledge the 'bigger' point of everything that I have said to you, your apology is not accepted.


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"...well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"
BTBS, Rattle and Hum

[This message has been edited by gabrielvox (edited 04-17-2002).]
 
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
I say:
I believe in Dinosaurs. Many scientists believe that dinosaurs existed at the same time as man. The Bible even speaks about a "leviathan", which many Biblical scholars believe was a ginat sea-creature (a dinosaur). Even if Dinosaurs existed before man, that would not prove the Bible wrong. the Bible itself says that animal was created before man. There are a lot of Biblical scholars who believe that God may have created life on this plnet in stages, which is not really contradictory to the Bible's account of 7 days, as the Bible does say that a day to the Lord "is as 1000 years".


80's. I realize I'm a little late with this. I found your 'evidence' interesting even though I don't think it has much weight behind it, but, to each their own. One more little question, in the above quote you mention Gods "timetable" so to speak. Does this mean that the Earth is only 7000 years old? Science has surely disproven that. Please clarify.

P.S. This thread kinda went nuts after I left! Jeez!!!
smile.gif


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Don't let the bastards grind you down.

Zooropa FTP
 
Originally posted by gabrielvox:
I have a scripture for you to read 80s, but out of a wish not to embarrass you any further I will simply name it and you can read it in private: Matthew 6, vs 1 thru 7.
On that basis, because you once more used your apology as a chance to restate your belief that I am not saved, and because you have obstinately refused to acknowledge the 'bigger' point of everything that I have said to you, your apology is not accepted.
I have no idea why you posted Matthew 6:1-7 to me. That pasage is about not doing your good deeds publicly, for a show, or praying publicly, for a show. If I could have apologized to you privately, I would have. I can't, so I apologized publicly.
My apology was sincere. Weren't you upset at my wrong behavior? I realized I was behaving badly, so I apologized. The only reason I restated what I believed is because I wanted to make it clear that my apology did not entail me changing my mind on that belief. I will never believe differently than that.

I have 2 questions that I would honestly like you to think about now;
1)could it be that what you're bothered by is not really the way I stated what I believe, but what I believe itself? By your denial of my apology, that's how it seems. Well, I won't apologize for what I believe.
2)I offered my apology honestly and sincerely. Certainly it was an honest apology - if I wasn't being sincere, why would I apologize at all? I don't know you personally; I had nothing to gain. At this point, it's up to you. It's not going to hurt me if you do not forgive me. Please remember, however, that Christ said to forgive as his Father forgives us.
 
Originally posted by zooropa16:
80's. I realize I'm a little late with this. I found your 'evidence' interesting even though I don't think it has much weight behind it, but, to each their own. One more little question, in the above quote you mention Gods "timetable" so to speak. Does this mean that the Earth is only 7000 years old? Science has surely disproven that. Please clarify.
Hi, when I speak of God's timetable, I guess I'm saying that since God stands outside of time, that he has put time in motion, and his timing is not as ours. Do I hold firmly to the believe that the world is only 6000 or 7000 years? No, that is not one of th important beliefs. If I found out today that it was 150% positive that the world was billions of years old, it wouldn't bother me. However, I do think it's possible that the world is only 7000 years old, as I believe in catastrophism rather than uniformitarianism.
 
All I ever wanted was to ask a question - I grew up in a very strict Catholic community, but take science and was confused by conflicting beliefs.

Thank you Melon. Your words were wonderful and helpful. May I use one of your quotes as my signiture?

80sU2 - I ahve one question only: You sadi that God does good and the devil equal. Is God less powerful then the devil? WHy do such bad things happen?
 
Originally posted by The_Sweetest_Thing:

80sU2 - I ahve one question only: You sadi that God does good and the devil equal. Is God less powerful then the devil? WHy do such bad things happen?
Nope, I never said the Devil is equal to God. I said that God does good, and that the Devil does bad, but I never said tehy are equal. God is the all-powerful Lord. Satan is a created being, full of evil and his power is nothing compared to God.
Bad things happen because:
1)Because of sin. Man has free will to make whatever choices he pleases.
2)we live in a fallen world, full of disease and sickness - it is a result of teh first sin. "Bad luck" (ie: hard times) falls on both the wicked and the good. It's just the nature of life on this planet.
 
I'm joining this conversation late, but hopefully, you all can accept one more opinion.

I'm a scientist. I have studied science in some form for most of my life and have been involved in professional scientific research and development for the past 16 years.

And in all of this time, I can say one thing without doubt: the more I learn about this world the more convinced I am that God exists.

This may contradict the stereotype of scientists. That is, most people feel that scientists are atheists or agnostic. This stereotype is not without its truths (as all stereotypes are). In some cases, the more a scientist learns, the less he/she believes in the concept of an "all-powerful God" who created the world.

However, in my personal world, just the reverse is true. Furthermore, I know of several very prestigious scientists who also strongly believe in God. And I believe they share my thinking - that the more they learn, the more convinced they are there is a God.

For me, the "proof" that God exists came as a result of my studies. I was utterly fascinated at the level of intracacy and design required for life. It is mind-boggling when one realized that all of these laws of physics and elements of chemistry came together to form the biology we know today. In other words, I just cannot accept that the life we know on this world all just happened by chance.

Some argue that perhaps aliens seeded this planet. I can accept this argument. Again, when I look at the level of detail involved in DNA and proteins and how this translates to functioning organs and ultimately life, I can very easily accept that our world was designed or engineered by another.

And there are so many possibilities. Perhaps an alien race planted the initial seeds that took a lifeless rock and ultimately brought about bacteria, plants, insects, dinosaurs, and finally mammals. Alternatively, perhaps our world was designed for dinosaurs, but an alien race, wanting to seed another world in their image, eliminated the dinosaurs so that mammals could dominate the planet. After all, dinosaurs rulled this earth for several hundred million years - mankind has only existed for several hundred thousand years.

Of course, then there's the big question. Even if an alien race was responsible for life on this planet, what and who created that alien race?

But let's get even simpler than this. Let's break everything down to the simplest smallest particle there is - perhaps all God did was create this particle and then set everything in motion. That was God's only role - to create that little particle and then set the laws for the universe to form. But what laws those were! And that particle clearly was a mighty powerful one!

All of this said, all of these theories stated, one question constantly remains: what created God? If God created this world, what created God? If aliens created this world, that's great, but what created the aliens? And if God created the aliens, then that goes back to the original question - what created God?

But alas, that is the mystery of faith. All religions have this "rule." Man may be able to explain how he was created, how the earth was created, how the heavens were created - but man cannot explain how it all began, and perhaps more importantly, why it began. Why were certain laws of physics put into place? What if different laws existed? Why have any laws at all? What's the purpose in creating all of this? And this is where faith must play a role. Either you accept this element of faith and that there is a greater purpose, or you believe that all of this just happened by chance and that when you die, life ceases to exist.

Most people believe in the notion of God. Some do just to be on the "safe side." That is, if God does exist, far better to have faith in Him now on earth than risk an eternity in some sort of "hell" because one chose not to believe in God. However, I feel that most people believe in a higher power because of all the questions I raised above - what or who really created this vast universe, and why?

But then there's even a bigger question. Assuming there is a God (and I do believe there is), does God interact with humans daily? Does He save some while letting others die?

My answer to these questions is "yes."

The tragedy of Sep. 11th will never be forgotten. But let's step back a moment. How many plants die each day due to natural causes or fire or being eaten or destroyed? How many animals die each day from natural causes or fire or being eaten or destroyed? How many people die each day from natural causes or fire or being destroyed? Death is a constant.

I don't believe in destiny, per se. I do believe we have a series of choices presented to us every day. The choices we make, though, do determine our destiny. For example, there is a young lady who was on her way to her art studio in the Twin Towers on Sep. 11th. She forgot a book at home and returned to retrieve it, risking being late. This decision saved her life. Had she chosen to disregard the book, she might not have been alive today.

The people that died on Sep. 11th made a decision to be in a certain place at a certain time, as sad and unfortunate as it was for them. In other words, based on the decisions they made, it was their time to leave this world and enter God's.

However, God did see fit not to have everyone die that day. Some were allowed to survive. Some had things they had yet to accomplish on this earth. And I feel this is statement is the true reason for our existence.

Do any of you feel you have a greater purpose on this planet? I have felt this way - I have felt this way for a while. And I know now that I am now accomplishing that purpose. It was a calling - just as a priest might feel a calling to serve God. My calling wasn't for the ministry, though, rather for science. I am not the brightest scientist, but one does not need to be the best or the brightest to still have a powerful impact.

Just as I know that I am doing God's will (or so I hope and pray that I am), I also know that my work here is not yet complete. When it is, I may be called away. I may be one of those people that might make a decision that ends my life. Again, it is the mystery of faith.

Every one of us probably has a story to tell of how God or at least one of His angels interacted with us. I'm sure God has sent His angels to me many times - but the one time I that I feel was the most obvious occurred when I was a young man of 18/19. I won't go into the story here, other than to say that a person appeared suddenly when I needed someone the most (to help pull my car out of a ditch). Then, when I went to thank the person, he was "gone." The fact that someone helped me the very second I needed it and was then just "gone" strongly suggests God was watching me that day - in some capacity.

Perhaps God, Himself, doesn't interact with us on a day to day basis - perhaps this is why there are such things as angels. Again, this is an element of faith. But all I can say is, I do believe in God, I do not think that science and religion have to clash, and I do believe God can and does interact with us in some capacity on a daily basis.
 
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