Go Obama!

[bigjohn2441]

ACLU? Really? I guess you haven't heard they're on "your" side about the report fishy comments idea... So much for it being the Communist organization that conservatives often like to paint it as...

i must admit i too "hated" the evil ACLU, without even really knowing anything about it. this was before my "re-education", when i used to watch O'Reilly every night.

 

[Irvine511]

You know, all that Patriotic Act, Terrorist surveillance, FISA court stuff.

If the privacy of your phone calls is so important why not be at least somewhat concerned about your medical records?

Remember, someday a Republican may be back in the White House.

so now the shoe is on the other foot?

i can see the point, but the point equally applies to you from 2001-2009.

you lose concern for privacy so that we can kill terrorists.

we lose concern for privacy so that 40m people might have health insurance.

i suppose those are simply different priorities, but if you think you've caught (for lack of a better term) "The Left" in some act of hypocrisy, it applies equally to you.

 

[HyperU2]

I've yet to really notice that loss of Privacy. Anyone? Isn't the actual number of chronically uninsured around 8 million?

 

[Irvine511]

so now people's free speech needs to be reported to the white house? and what are they going to do with the information they get?

given the shocking ignorance out there about health care, the health care plan, and who pays for what, this seems rather responsible.

it's shocking that people don't know that Medicaid and Medicare are government-run programs, nor do they know that if they get health care from their employer, it's already coming out of their paycheck. it's precisely these people who would benefit most from single-payer health care, and just as Republicans do with, say, abortion, they exploit these folks with fears of "communism" or "socialism" or "black man in the white house asking for your money like those homeless black people do whenever you have to go into Detroit."

Tempers Flare at Romulus Health Forum



and we have this little gem from Madame Proudly Ignorant herself, Sarah Palin:

The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

it's beyond parody.

and, yes, there's a current of racism at the core of this.

 

[Irvine511]

Yes, but it seems an attack like this would be... I don't know... covered a little more in the media had the roles been reversed. Especially since the victim was black.

do you have anything to add other than how "unfair" the media is.

 

[Irvine511]

I've yet to really notice that loss of Privacy. Anyone?

but i'm sure it will be totally different with health care.

 

[Jeannieco]

If I may jump in here, I would like to share an article my brother wrote. He is an award winning investigative journalist and works locally for a non profit organization called the Center for Justice. He has a very impressive resume and I am so proud of him I could just boast all day long but I will stop.
Just sharing another opinion on the health care debate and why the mob anger is about something deeper than health care reform.

**********************************
Mobs in America
Published on August 7, 2009

If angry conservatives can shout down health reform, then America is in deeper trouble than we thought.
In case you missed it, Paul Krugman has an insightful and important opinion piece in yesterday’s New York Times entitled “The Town Hall Mob,” that gets at what is arguably the most disturbing trend in American political life.

Some would argue that the most disturbing trend in our political life is the continuing saturation of the electoral process with special interest money. But here, as Krugman points out, we actually have a marriage between vested industry groups with lots of money, and genuinely angry citizens who are now using the health care debate to vent spleen about all sorts of phantoms. Generally, the anger is expressed in charges about how Obama and the Democrats are seizing the country and leading us to fascism, or socialism, depending on the speaker, or the mute, crimson-faced, sign-waver.

Thus, from the wild scenes at district-level, public meetings this past week, what we seem to be witnessing is not just a well-organized assault on health care reform. It also appears to be a chilling escalation of hysterical, open therapy events for conservatives still fuming over the Republican Party’s reversal of fortunes and the ascension of a black family to the White House. Here the even nuttier “birther” conspiracies challenging Obama’s legitimacy to be President are conspicuous and perhaps not a coincidence.

I hope by my criticisms of Obama’s lame response to Wall Street’s devastating piracy and the President’s shameful reluctance to prosecute torturers, I’ve persuaded some of you that I’m not a knee-jerk partisan. But this attack on health care reform is not just loony, it’s dangerous moonshine.

Consider that one of the principal funders of this supposedly grassroots, anti-reform effort is Rick Scott, the disgraced former head of Columbia/HCA, a private hospital chain that pled guilty and paid $1.7 billion in fines for overcharging government health plans. (Scott drew an outraged reaction from CNN anchor Rick Sanchez yesterday when he lamely offered that the company paid the fine after he (Scott) was removed from his position.)

But the real reason these events should frighten you is contained in this scene from a Texas town hall meeting hosted by Rep. Gene Green (D) that Krugman relates in his column: “An activist turned to his fellow attendees and asked if they ‘oppose any form os socialized or government-run health care.’ Nearly all did. Then Representative Green asked how many of those present were on Medicare. Almost half raised their hands.”

It reminded me of a cartoon I saw a couple days ago where a couple on their way to demonstrate against government involvement in health care are asking a pharmacist to hurry up and give them their government subsidized prescriptions because they’re late for the rally.

I think this is a vivid extension of the utter craziness in American political culture that Thomas Frank brilliantly portrayed in his 2005 book, “What’s the Matter with Kansas?” Frank’s organizing question is how lower and middle income conservatives have been enlisted as political foot soldiers and cannon fodder to promote laissez faire policies that generally undermine their own economic interests. Frank’s answer is that there is a weird alchemy in the culture wars where, in exchange for religious totems (Republican opposition to abortion, gay rights, etc.), the good folks of Kansas are willing to accept the agenda of corporate greed heads, even when it conflicts with their own economic self-interests. Again, I think it goes back to this nutty notion Americans have that–despite the immense taxpayer subsidies and perks to banks, agribusiness, and other private groups–we’re all still yodeling cowboys at heart who just want big gov’ment to get out of our ways so we can fend for ourselves with the money we’ll make in Dodge City. Dream on.

What the shouting accomplishes, of course, is that it makes the facts irrelevant. Facts can’t get a hearing when a group of people decide that an orderly public meeting is not going to occur on their watch. Want to read something chilling? Go to Talking Points Memo and read this “Rocking the Town Halls–Best Practices” memo distributed by one of the conservative/populist groups behind this shout-them-out movement.

Part of the absurdity, here, is that there’s nothing in Obama’s political makeup that marks him as a proponent of big-government. If we had a health care system where a basic right to health care was even close to being delivered by private insurers, no one would be happier about it than Obama who, lord knows, faces daunting challenges from so many other directions. But now we have a collection of angry mobs, blocking even the discussion of reforms, with the blood-curdling scream that Obama is taking us down the road to socialism, or worse. This, even when it is Obama’s team that, as much as the Republicans, has thwarted any meaningful consideration of a single-payer system, variations of which work in most other industrialized nations.

Indeed, as Krugman hints at in his column, the energy behind Obama’s reforms may have already been drained by his readiness to compromise with opponents who are heavily backed by private insurers and willing not just to distort facts, but use ideologically charged and even race-coded language to whip up opposition to reforms.

Ultimately, though, it comes back to the rest of us, and what we’re willing to do to protect what’s left of our democracy from people who are demonstrating that, in their misplaced rage, they are proudly unwilling to have a reasoned discussion. If that’s America to them, it can’t be America to the rest of us.

 

[VintagePunk]

My daughter and I were discussing the US health care issue last night, along with this thread specifically, and noted that (just an observation, no judgment) in general, many US citizens seem much more paranoid about steps their government take than do citizens of any other democracy we could think of. In Canada, even when citizens are ideologically opposed to the party in power, although we might not agree with their policies or like every decision they come to, there's not this pervasive feeling that the government is out to get us/do us harm/invade our privacy. We talked about how the US was pretty much founded on anti-government sentiment, and how it's carried over to present day.

I just find it amazing that people would be willing to put their trust in a private, for profit company to have their best interests in mind, before the government. Besides that, I guess I really don't have a point, but I'd be interested in reading any comments that this might generate.

 

[bigjohn2441]

^ i dont trust private for profit companies OR the government i dont like the current system or Obama's plan.

 

[BVS]

Isn't the actual number of chronically uninsured around 8 million?

If you listen to Glenn Beck's twisting of the the truth, then yes it's closer to like 5 people who are uninsured.

 

[Jeannieco]

I just find it amazing that people would be willing to put their trust in a private, for profit company to have their best interests in mind, before the government. Besides that, I guess I really don't have a point, but I'd be interested in reading any comments that this might generate.

Yes, the mis-information about the "evil" government and it's programs was reinforced for my generation with Ronald Reagan and his mantra of deregulation.
Look what we have now, GREED and more greed with NO oversight. Especially in the health care industry. Why can't people see this? The stock market crashing was not enough? The refusal of health care is not enough?
The health care industry is an industry for the most part that is working and rewarding itself for keeping Americans sick so they can continue to produce large profits to pay for their multitude of vacation homes and luxury items.
They don't want you to be healthy, otherwise where is the profit in NOT prescribing drugs? Where is the profit in
naturual alternative medicine that doesn't involve the pharmacuedical companies?
There has got to be a happy medium. Whenever things become lopsided that's when things fall apart.
There is more going on here with these angry "mobs" and the battle cry for NON reform. They are angry about the election. Pure and simple and are misguided by FEAR perpetuated by fear mongers like rush and Bill O.

Fear is not of God, fear destroys hope.

You guys gotta read this article, it's as funny as it is insightful by the always amusing Bill Maher. I know he is very alienating, but this is so funny.
********
From the Huffington Post:



Just because a country elects a smart president doesn't make it a smart country. A few weeks ago I was asked by Wolf Blitzer if I thought Sarah Palin could get elected president, and I said I hope not, but I wouldn't put anything past this stupid country. It was amazing - in the minute or so between my calling America stupid and the end of the Cialis commercial, CNN was flooded with furious emails and the twits hit the fan. And you could tell that these people were really mad because they wrote entirely in CAPITAL LETTERS!!! It's how they get the blood circulating when the Cialis wears off. Worst of all, Bill O'Reilly refuted my contention that this is a stupid country by calling me a pinhead, which A) proves my point, and B) is really funny coming from a doody-face like him.

Now, the hate mail all seemed to have a running theme: that I may live in a stupid country, but they lived in the greatest country on earth, and that perhaps I should move to another country, like Somalia. Well, the joke's on them because I happen to have a summer home in Somalia... and no I can't show you an original copy of my birth certificate because Woody Harrelson spilled bong water on it.

And before I go about demonstrating how, sadly, easy it is to prove the dumbness dragging down our country, let me just say that ignorance has life and death consequences. On the eve of the Iraq War, 69% of Americans thought Saddam Hussein was personally involved in 9/11. Four years later, 34% still did. Or take the health care debate we're presently having: members of Congress have recessed now so they can go home and "listen to their constituents." An urge they should resist because their constituents don't know anything. At a recent town-hall meeting in South Carolina, a man stood up and told his Congressman to "keep your government hands off my Medicare," which is kind of like driving cross country to protest highways.

I'm the bad guy for saying it's a stupid country, yet polls show that a majority of Americans cannot name a single branch of government, or explain what the Bill of Rights is. 24% could not name the country America fought in the Revolutionary War. More than two-thirds of Americans don't know what's in Roe v. Wade. Two-thirds don't know what the Food and Drug Administration does. Some of this stuff you should be able to pick up simply by being alive. You know, like the way the Slumdog kid knew about cricket.

Not here. Nearly half of Americans don't know that states have two senators and more than half can't name their congressman. And among Republican governors, only 30% got their wife's name right on the first try.

Sarah Palin says she would never apologize for America. Even though a Gallup poll says 18% of Americans think the sun revolves around the earth. No, they're not stupid. They're interplanetary mavericks. A third of Republicans believe Obama is not a citizen, and a third of Democrats believe that George Bush had prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks, which is an absurd sentence because it contains the words "Bush" and "knowledge."

People bitch and moan about taxes and spending, but they have no idea what their government spends money on. The average voter thinks foreign aid consumes 24% of our federal budget. It's actually less than 1%. And don't even ask about cabinet members: seven in ten think Napolitano is a kind of three-flavored ice cream. And last election, a full one-third of voters forgot why they were in the booth, handed out their pants, and asked, "Do you have these in a relaxed-fit?"

And I haven't even brought up America's religious beliefs. But here's one fun fact you can take away: did you know only about half of Americans are aware that Judaism is an older religion than Christianity? That's right, half of America looks at books called the Old Testament and the New Testament and cannot figure out which one came first.

And these are the idiots we want to weigh in on the minutia of health care policy? Please, this country is like a college chick after two Long Island Iced Teas: we can be talked into anything, like wars, and we can be talked out of anything, like health care. We should forget town halls, and replace them with study halls. There's a lot of populist anger directed towards Washington, but you know who concerned citizens should be most angry at? Their fellow citizens. "Inside the beltway" thinking may be wrong, but at least it's thinking, which is more than you can say for what's going on outside the beltway.

And if you want to call me an elitist for this, I say thank you. Yes, I want decisions made by an elite group of people who know what they're talking about. That means Obama budget director Peter Orszag, not Sarah Palin.

Which is the way our founding fathers wanted it. James Madison wrote that "pure democracy" doesn't work because "there is nothing to check... an obnoxious individual." Then, in the margins, he doodled a picture of Joe the Plumber.

Until we admit there are things we don't know, we can't even start asking the questions to find out. Until we admit that America can make a mistake, we can't stop the next one. A smart guy named Chesterton once said: "My country, right or wrong is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying... It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.'" To which most Americans would respond: "Are you calling my mother a drunk?"

 

[bigjohn2441]

 

[VintagePunk]

If you listen to Glenn Beck's twisting of the the truth, then yes it's closer to like 5 people who are uninsured.

What are the real numbers?

From my understanding, the uninsured isn't even the full problem, it's also the under-insured, the people who are paying exorbitant rates for their insurance or procedures/treatments that aren't covered, and those who have to jump through hoops (not always successfully) to get their insurance companies to cover legitimate health care needs.

Please, this country is like a college chick after two Long Island Iced Teas: we can be talked into anything, like wars, and we can be talked out of anything, like health care.

 

[No spoken words]

I read stuff like that and I laugh....but then I re-read the specifics, from the polls, and I get sad. Such a sense of entitlement in this country, and everyone wants their fucking rights but nobody wants the responsibilities that come with those rights....and educating yourself, or at least paying attention in class seems like a basic responsibility.

 

[bigjohn2441]

we have LOTS of dipshits in this country. i see them everyday at my job. i wonder how some of these people survive day to day being so dumb. the worst are the people around 20 y/o and below.

 

[No spoken words]

You know, I used to hate "stupid" people, but now, it's ignorance that boils my blood. Some people are just dealt a losing hand in the intelligence department, but maybe they work their ass off, maybe they stay current etc....but people that willfully ignore the issues, vote without educating themselves, argue with people when they are devoid of the correct information and yell from the rooftops about pure nonsense, well, that's just maddening to me.

And, I'm not overly bright myself so if I sound a tad high and mighty, I apologize....I just struggle with people that more or less flaunt their ignorance.

 

[bigjohn2441]

I just struggle with people that more or less flaunt their ignorance.

yes!

"look at me, im a fucking idiot! hehehehe"

people laugh about their igorance, like it's cute that they cant correctly fill out a basic form with a couple of questions.....

 

[HyperU2]

If you listen to Glenn Beck's twisting of the the truth, then yes it's closer to like 5 people who are uninsured.

CNN said it was actually close to 8 million but I was in the pub at the time, didn't catch all of it. The 45 million includes anyone during the year who had a temporary lapse in coverage, illegal immigrants, and those that could afford insurance but chose not to buy into it. (the latter included me)

 

[BVS]

What are the real numbers?

From my understanding, the uninsured isn't even the full problem, it's also the under-insured, the people who are paying exorbitant rates for their insurance or procedures/treatments that aren't covered, and those who have to jump through hoops (not always successfully) to get their insurance companies to cover legitimate health care needs.

This is true, the under-insured are a big portion of our health care problems.

CNN said it was actually close to 8 million but I was in the pub at the time, didn't catch all of it. The 45 million includes anyone during the year who had a temporary lapse in coverage, illegal immigrants, and those that could afford insurance but chose not to buy into it. (the latter included me)

I would say when all is said and done it's probably closer to 25-30 million, that's not including illegal immigrants. But all those undocumented workers who are working the jobs that not even the unemployed want to work need care every once in awhile so they are part of this issue. "Temporary" lapse is only counted if it's at least a year(from my understanding) and a lot can happen in a year. And the whole "could afford but chose not to buy" is bullshit, how do you judge that number? A 55 year old might be able to technically "afford" some coverage but not for the issues he/she may have to really deal with...

There are far too many factors to just look at a number, and both sides are padding, but the right is definately "padding" their's a lot worse...

 

[HyperU2]

And the whole "could afford but chose not to buy" is bullshit, how do you judge that number? .

I dunno, a number of younger employees surveyed said they choose that option. When I was among them there were at least 5 other people doing the same thing at my company alone.

 

[BVS]

I dunno, a number of younger employees surveyed said they choose that option. When I was among them there were at least 5 other people doing the same thing at my company alone.

Oh, I understand the "logic", if you're young you don't think you need it, it's a waste of money... until something happens.

When I was 22 and a college student my parents switched me from their insurance to a student insurance between the switch there were three days that I wouldn't be covered, that three days coincided with a ski trip where I fractured two vertebrae... never been injured before in my life.

 

[zooropop40]

Republicans dont believe in "small government" - they just say they do. Their actions show something quite different. I also do not think that democrats believe in "Big Government"

My view, and I am a liberal, is that government should only be involved in areas that cannot be left to the private sector- to me those areas are:

Education, Environmental protections, and Health Care. Almost everything else should be left to the free market. And there should be NO government involved in people's personal choices (i.e. gay marriage, abortion, etc...)

If you ask me conservative's believe in bigger government and LESS freedom- for instance look at it this way:

Conservative's believe in Gov interference (hehe i said "interference" ) in people's personal lives and choices to uphold this so-called leave it to beaver type "family values." Yet they believe in minimal regulation in the Free market while they funnel money into big business and corporations leaving the middle class out to dry and justifying it by saying that "the freer the market- the freer the people"

The truth is that yes, a free market is important to freedom... but at the same time, when has being a health care slave to insurance companies been considered freedom? When has not being able to start a small business because of large tax cuts and unfair advantages going to corporations been considered "freedom?" When has an education system that is crumbling with less government funding or involvement been considered freedom? When has not being able to marry the person you love been considered freedom?

Government and freedom can coincide. Freedom is not the opposite of Government. And smart, effective, and efficient government based around the people to SERVE the people can mean more progress. Conservatives just try to hold all this back to serve the few rich corporations who they defend instead of the majority of americans, and then justify it by calling it "less government"

just my $0.02

 

[Jeannieco]

yes!

"look at me, im a fucking idiot! hehehehe"

people laugh about their igorance, like it's cute that they cant correctly fill out a basic form with a couple of questions.....

Ya, they are proud of it. It's the Sarah Palin crowd. Sorry but it's true. Come on, the woman thought Africa was a country for crying out loud, and she has followers that want her elected because she is "relatable".

Most of the right has learned, with the exception of maybe Megan McCain, from Fox and Rush and Bill O, and Hannity,
that being smart is "elitist" and somehow unamerican. That we from the blue states don't believe in God and if we do we are not the right kind of Christian or whatever, and that we can't be trusted becasue we are educated yankees. What a steaming pile of crap. It's the same pile of poop that was waiting for Obama when he moved to the WH. and now he is getting blamed for the stench that is still lingering in the air. It's incredibly frustrating.

 

[Jeannieco]

Republicans dont believe in "small government" - they just say they do. Their actions show something quite different. I also do not think that democrats believe in "Big Government"

My view, and I am a liberal, is that government should only be involved in areas that cannot be left to the private sector- to me those areas are:

Education, Environmental protections, and Health Care. Almost everything else should be left to the free market. And there should be NO government involved in people's personal choices (i.e. gay marriage, abortion, etc...)

If you ask me conservative's believe in bigger government and LESS freedom- for instance look at it this way:

Conservative's believe in Gov interference (hehe i said "interference" ) in people's personal lives and choices to uphold this so-called leave it to beaver type "family values." Yet they believe in minimal regulation in the Free market while they funnel money into big business and corporations leaving the middle class out to dry and justifying it by saying that "the freer the market- the freer the people"

The truth is that yes, a free market is important to freedom... but at the same time, when has being a health care slave to insurance companies been considered freedom? When has not being able to start a small business because of large tax cuts and unfair advantages going to corporations been considered "freedom?" When has an education system that is crumbling with less government funding or involvement been considered freedom? When has not being able to marry the person you love been considered freedom?

Government and freedom can coincide. Freedom is not the opposite of Government. And smart, effective, and efficient government based around the people to SERVE the people can mean more progress. Conservatives just try to hold all this back to serve the few rich corporations who they defend instead of the majority of americans, and then justify it by calling it "less government"

just my $0.02

 

[coolian2]

My daughter and I were discussing the US health care issue last night, along with this thread specifically, and noted that (just an observation, no judgment) in general, many US citizens seem much more paranoid about steps their government take than do citizens of any other democracy we could think of. In Canada, even when citizens are ideologically opposed to the party in power, although we might not agree with their policies or like every decision they come to, there's not this pervasive feeling that the government is out to get us/do us harm/invade our privacy. We talked about how the US was pretty much founded on anti-government sentiment, and how it's carried over to present day.

I just find it amazing that people would be willing to put their trust in a private, for profit company to have their best interests in mind, before the government. Besides that, I guess I really don't have a point, but I'd be interested in reading any comments that this might generate.

i'm trying to come up with a paragraph or even just a sentence that adds my thoughts to this, but i'd simply be echoing your post entirely.

 

[maycocksean]

What is the saddest thing is that the Right (and that includes INDY and 2861 right here) seem to have no intention of even providing a reasonable alternative to Obama's plan. That's sad, because I have a lot of reservatons about the current plan, but the Right has simply dropped the ball on providing any alternative beyond "everything's fine the way it is."

You guys have completely abdicated your responsiblity as citizens of this country to get involved in this process in a reasonable and informed way.

Will these scare tactics and hyperbolic nonsense actually be successful in blocking meaningful reform. I hope not--not because the Democrat's plan is a good one--but simply because the reasons being presented--the partisan crap that has been perpetuated right in this thread--for opposing it are ridiculous!

 

[VintagePunk]

i'm trying to come up with a paragraph or even just a sentence that adds my thoughts to this, but i'd simply be echoing your post entirely.

It was actually your posts a page or two back that got me thinking about this, because you sounded as incredulous about all this as I feel. I'm not sure that many US citizens realize that a great deal of the democratic world does seem to have a somewhat tempered at times, but ultimately innate trust in their governments that, worst case scenario, they won't completely fuck things up, and best case, that their government really does want to do what's best for its citizens, and make the nation as good and effective as it can be for most people. It's just such a different mindset than many of us are accustomed to.

 

[No spoken words]

But how many politicians with the means and desire to rise to the top of the political heap here in the States demonstrate a desire to truly do what's best for the citizens of the US as opposed to what's best for them or more importantly their party? I mean, did you trust the government of this country prior to 1/20/09? I sure as fuck didn't.

I don't trust/have faith in the people doing the voting, let alone those they vote for.

I wish I did.

 

[BVS]

What is the saddest thing is that the Right (and that includes INDY and 2861 right here) seem to have no intention of even providing a reasonable alternative to Obama's plan. That's sad, because I have a lot of reservatons about the current plan, but the Right has simply dropped the ball on providing any alternative beyond "everything's fine the way it is."

You guys have completely abdicated your responsiblity as citizens of this country to get involved in this process in a reasonable and informed way.

Will these scare tactics and hyperbolic nonsense actually be successful in blocking meaningful reform. I hope not--not because the Democrat's plan is a good one--but simply because the reasons being presented--the partisan crap that has been perpetuated right in this thread--for opposing it are ridiculous!

Well this is exactly what I was saying during the whole tea party debacle. They're protesting, shouting, etc but 3/4 of them have no clue why they are there and 100% of them never offered an alternative.

You notice no one actually argue's that our current system is great, because they would be laughed at... It's nothing but partisan bullshit, is what it comes down to.

 

[financeguy]

Violence At Townhall - Against A Conservative; Six Arrested, Including a Reporter | NewsBusters.org

We have some video of the attack. It appears that it is members of the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) doing at least some of the dirty work.

But it's conservatives who engage in violence and hate speech, right?

The Saint Louis Post-Dispatch is reporting that one of their own, reporter Jake Wagman, was one of six people arrested in connection with the beating of a conservative activist outside of a town hall forum held by Democrat Congressman Russ Carnahan.

According to Dawn Majors, a Post-Dispatch photojournalist who witnessed everything unfold, an officer said that Wagman had been "interfering."

From the article:

Kenneth Gladney, a 38-year-old conservative activist from St. Louis, said he was attacked by some of those arrested as he handed out yellow flags with “Don't tread on me” printed on them. He spoke to the Post-Dispatch from the emergency room of the St. John's Mercy Medical Center, where he said he was waiting to be treated for injuries to his knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face that he suffered in the attack. Gladney, who is black, said one of his attackers, also a black man, used a racial slur against him before the attack started.

"It just seems there's no freedom of speech without being attacked," he said.

That is some list of injuries, which means it must have been some beating. And Gladney says he was attacked by "some of those arrested," which means there were probably more in the mob than just that.

And let us not overlook nor forget the racial slur Gladney additionally endured.

Two of those were arrested on suspicion of assault, one of resisting arrest and three on suspicion of committing peace disturbances.

To be very fair, Wagman of the Post-Dispatch could have simply been in the way while trying to shoot video of the assault; the article does not say.

We'll see how widely this is reported by the Lamestream Media, as it certainly fails to fit into their Conservative Haters template.

------------

I can't wait to hear what Olbermann and the Daily Kos say about this!

So comparing these protesters to Nazis, Brownshirts, political terrorists and Timothy McVeigh wasn't enough? They have to start physically attacking them now? Is it November 2010 yet?

Glenn Beck jokes about putting poison in Nancy Pelosi's wine
Saturday, August 08, 2009





-- by Dave

Glenn Beck had a glass of wine with Nancy Pelosi on Thursday night.

Of course, it wasn't actually Pelosi. It was some poor Fox employee made to sit across the desk from Beck with a cardboard Pelosi mask, holding a glass of juice of some kind that was serving as a stand-in for wine.

It was all meant to spoof Pelosi for supposedly listening only to "millionaire contributors" instead of her constituents.

But then he tossed in a little "joke":


Beck: I just want you to drink it. Drink it. [Laughs] Drink it! I really just wanted to thank you for having us over here to wine country. You know, to be invited, I thought you had to be a major Democratic donor or longtime friend of yours, which I'm not. Oh, ah, by the way, I put poison in your -- no I --


Funny, it seems like only a couple of days ago Beck was imploring his viewers not to resort to acts of violence. (It was.) And now he's encouraging violence by joking about poisoning the Speaker of the House.

Cross-posted at Crooks and Liars.

6:33 PM Spotlight



Unrated

Comment (0)


Are Republicans and their thugs killing off the Town Hall as a democratic forum?






-- by Dave

Does anyone remember when Town Hall forums were civil affairs that gave citizens a chance to speak freely to their elected representatives in a civil conversation?

Yeah, that would have been last week. In the days since, Republicans and their astroturf gangs of protesters have transformed town halls into outlets for their prearranged shoutfests ginned up by Fox talkers.

The old town-hall forum may never be the same. And the country is the worse for it.

Check out the ugliness yesterday in Tampa Bay. It certainly fits the blueprint for action laid out early on in this effort: Disrupt, distract, and destroy any chance for an actual civil and informed conversation. In other words, demolish the entire purpose of a town-hall forum.

As Paul Krugman puts it:


Some commentators have tried to play down the mob aspect of these scenes, likening the campaign against health reform to the campaign against Social Security privatization back in 2005. But there’s no comparison. I’ve gone through many news reports from 2005, and while anti-privatization activists were sometimes raucous and rude, I can’t find any examples of congressmen shouted down, congressmen hanged in effigy, congressmen surrounded and followed by taunting crowds.

And I can’t find any counterpart to the death threats at least one congressman has received.

... [T]he driving force behind the town hall mobs is probably the same cultural and racial anxiety that’s behind the “birther” movement, which denies Mr. Obama’s citizenship. Senator Dick Durbin has suggested that the birthers and the health care protesters are one and the same; we don’t know how many of the protesters are birthers, but it wouldn’t be surprising if it’s a substantial fraction.

And cynical political operators are exploiting that anxiety to further the economic interests of their backers.


No one has a problem with right-wingers marching in protest of the health-care plans. That's certainly their right. And no one minds that they choose to participate in these forums. But town halls were never designed to be vehicles for protest. They have always been about enabling real democratic discourse in a civil setting.

When someone's entire purpose in coming out to a town-hall forum is to chant and shout and protest and disrupt, they aren't just expressing their opinions -- they are actively shutting down democracy.

And that, folks, is a classically fascist thing to do.

Orcinus