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Old 12-11-2007, 07:29 PM   #1
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Global Warming Crisis Even Worse Than Experts Thought

Jesus...

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/sto...12-11-16-11-45
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Old 12-11-2007, 07:33 PM   #2
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Stop spreading socialist propaganda.
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:30 PM   #3
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I think this is what we need to focus on:

"We have not passed a point of no return. We can still roll things back in time - but it is going to require a quick turn in direction."
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:32 PM   #4
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^ agree 100%
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Old 12-12-2007, 04:07 AM   #5
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Ditto. Any steps we can take to try and deal with this now are worth doing.

Wow. That's kinda disturbing. Like there hasn't been enough screwy behavior with the earth's weather patterns as of late, I don't want to even begin to imagine how much worse it could get (that reference to the drought-stricken southeastern U.S.-I feel so bad for those people. I really hope they get the rain they so desperately need as soon as possible).

Now all we need to do is get people's butts in gear and make them actually get serious about tackling this.

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Old 12-12-2007, 05:09 AM   #6
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where are our "skeptics" who'll assure us that it really isn't anything to worry about? keep on driving.
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:06 AM   #7
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I'm personally skeptical of any solution that doesn't involve hydrogen fuel and the building of the nuclear plants necessary to generate it cleanly.

My main hopes are currently pinned on "global warming" being, at least in part, a hyperbole. Otherwise, I think we're screwed.
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
I think this is what we need to focus on:

"We have not passed a point of no return. We can still roll things back in time - but it is going to require a quick turn in direction."
Buena Suerte!

Our Paris Hilton society isn't much for self-sacrifice--the pursuit of excess, materialism, and convenience are too engrained into our culture. Sure we'll throw our pop can in the recycling, buy some energy saving light bulbs, maybe a Hybrid (which makes us look cool), and talk about being Green, but ultimately very few people are making the lifestyle changes required for a "quick turn in direction."

One of the Landmark movie theaters I go to quite a bit in the Uptown area of Minneapolis used to only have air hand dryers in all the bathrooms because they are more environmentally friendly and cut down on waste. (They even apologize for the hand dryers and explain why they have them on a little placard next to the dryer) Recently they've switched back to paper towels because too many people complained. If the general public (especially in a more liberal and supposedly eco-conscience part of town) won't devote an extra 10 seconds to drying their hands, how can they be expected to make more difficult lifestyle changes?

My guess is that most people either don't truly believe that global warming is threat or they don't really care as long as they don't suffer any immediate discomfort from it.
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:13 AM   #9
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Gosh. We need to make some changes fast. This is scary.
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
I'm personally skeptical of any solution that doesn't involve hydrogen fuel and the building of the nuclear plants necessary to generate it cleanly.

My main hopes are currently pinned on "global warming" being, at least in part, a hyperbole. Otherwise, I think we're screwed.
I heard Tim Flannery (Australian climate change expert) speak recently and he thinks the situation is so dire that nuclear power is the only way to address it--not as a long term solution but more as urgent intervention. I was very much opposed to this but I'm starting to change my mind.

My office is trying to go solar but there is great resistance from the city. There are city ordinances to preserve the historial appearance of the downtown area and solar panels cannot be seen.
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:20 AM   #11
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The frustrating thing about alternative energy is that many groups that are supposedly in favor of it, scream and moan when wind turbines are suggested in their neighborhood. Case in point, the current fight of the Cape Wind Project to put of a couple hundred turbines in Nantucket Sound. It would provide clean, cheap power to all of the Cape, but people are worried about how it's going to effect their view from their mutlimillion dollar beach front homes. The Kennedy's immediately come to mind as a vocal opponent of the project. The other excuses that they come up with are just as bad - it could harm the birds if they fly into the turbines. How about we give the birds a little bit more credit than that?

When the time comes for me to purchase or build a home, I want solar panels, geothermal heating and cooling, the whole deal. It's as much about protecting the environment as it is giving the middle finger to the utility companies.
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl

My office is trying to go solar but there is great resistance from the city. There are city ordinances to preserve the historial appearance of the downtown area and solar panels cannot be seen.
This is happening all over the country, it's quite disheartening. Some of it's ignorance and some of it's persuasion from current energy companies.

There was a story about a town in west TX that wanted to go wind power and the current energy company kept them from converting by maintaining some height ordiance that the city had. They had enough votes within the counsel to keep the ordinace alive, finally after years of struggling they are finally converting as we speak, but the whole town could have been powered much cheaper and efficient years ago if it wasn't for the monopoly that this company had on the town.
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:51 AM   #13
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A local dentist put up a wind turbine on her property and was sued by her neighbors who found it ugly and thought it would devalue their property. It leaves me speechless.

I'm renting a place that has solar panels for electricity. I guess I'm far enough away from the downtown area so that it's not an issue. My electricity bill all summer was around $4-5. This month it went up to $10 because rather than use my gas radiant heat I've been using an electric heater to save on gas. I converted to fluorescent light bulbs some time ago, and am saving up for my next car which will be some kind of hybrid. I'm doing all I can do personally but until we as a nation organize ourselves (much like they did during WWII, I was thinking recently) I can't imagine that my little contributions are making much of an impact.

My office is an arts organization and we've decided we can be creative with the solar panels so that they look like an art installation.
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl

I'm renting a place that has solar panels for electricity. I guess I'm far enough away from the downtown area so that it's not an issue. My electricity bill all summer was around $4-5.
That's awesome.
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
I'm personally skeptical of any solution that doesn't involve hydrogen fuel and the building of the nuclear plants necessary to generate it cleanly.

My main hopes are currently pinned on "global warming" being, at least in part, a hyperbole. Otherwise, I think we're screwed.
Can you explain further why you think turning to nuclear energy is the best solution? I seriously dumped a guy this year because he believed the same thing (yes, I am that shallow.) I disagree wholeheartedly, but I admit that I am ignorant over the benefits. I only know of the risks...and that is a small amount of knowledge. It's okay though, he was a terrible kisser.

I have a lot of respect for you, and your posts here have really opened up my mind. So now I'm curious to know more about it.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by unico


Can you explain further why you think turning to nuclear energy is the best solution? I seriously dumped a guy this year because he believed the same thing (yes, I am that shallow.) I disagree wholeheartedly, but I admit that I am ignorant over the benefits. I only know of the risks...and that is a small amount of knowledge. It's okay though, he was a terrible kisser.

I have a lot of respect for you, and your posts here have really opened up my mind. So now I'm curious to know more about it.
In my environmental science class we learned about this new environmentalist movement toward nuclear power. I can't remember the details now but it made sense at the time, shockingly.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:05 AM   #17
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Well as I said, Tim Flannery believes the situation is so catastrophic that only nuclear power can save us. It's safer with less risk than coal-generated electricity. He sees nuclear as an immediate intervention while we continue to work on other forms of alternative energy which at the present are simply too slow to have a meaningful impact. Or something like that. I look forward to melon's insight as well.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:19 AM   #18
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http://www.kiplinger.com/printstory.php?pid=12422

Is Nuclear Power the Fix for Climate Change?

Once the bane of environmentalists, nuclear power is now seen by some of them as a key weapon in the fight against global warming.

September 2007

In a battle of lesser evils -- at least in the eyes of environmentalists -- nuclear power may be a surprise winner. Once regarded by many environmental activists as the energy source posing the greatest threat to the planet, nuclear energy is now seen by some as a way to slash emissions of gases that contribute to global warming. Whatever their other drawbacks, properly working nuclear power plants emit nothing more harmful than steam.

"Many people don't know that nuclear energy plays the single largest role in preventing greenhouse gases in the electricity sector…Also, nuclear energy has the smallest environmental impact of any clean-air electricity source," writes Patrick Moore, who helped found the environmental group Greenpeace and is now a cochair of the pro-nuke Clean and Safe Energy Coalition. Moore appears to still be in the minority in the movement when it comes to wholeheartedly embracing nuclear power, largely because no permanent solution has been found to the problem of storing deadly radioactive waste.

However, most environmentalists are concentrating on other perceived threats -- climate change chief among them -- rather than nuclear power. Wariness by the public and lawmakers is easing, as well, and the industry is beginning to expand aggressively for the first time since the early 1980s. Just this year, Tennessee Valley Authority, U.S.'s largest public power company, reactivated a plant that has been inactive since 1985. We anticipate that the first of two brand new plants will go online by 2012, and that the amount of electricity generated by nuclear power plants will grow by 20% by 2030. But, even with opposition slowing, nuclear power still faces tough obstacles besides the waste disposal issue: finding appropriate sites, hugely expensive start-up costs and worries about vulnerability to terrorist attacks.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:25 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher


My guess is that most people either don't truly believe that global warming is threat or they don't really care as long as they don't suffer any immediate discomfort from it.


while individuals acting in the best interest of the environment is a good thing and should be encouraged, we need to realize that only government has the ability to mobilize such change on such a massive level.

it's akin to WW2 in a sense. yes, lovely you've planted a Victory Garden. but what's really going to win the war are the tanks.

likewise, it's great when people wash their clothes in cold water and drive hybrids, but not much is really going to change until the government pursues alternative energy sources, implements a gas tax, adequately funds public transportation, and requires real fuel standards for all cars as well as stopping the bullshit classification of SUVs as light trucks.

personal stuff is all well and good, but the answer is going to be in Washington.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
A local dentist put up a wind turbine on her property and was sued by her neighbors who found it ugly and thought it would devalue their property. It leaves me speechless.

I'm renting a place that has solar panels for electricity. I guess I'm far enough away from the downtown area so that it's not an issue. My electricity bill all summer was around $4-5. This month it went up to $10 because rather than use my gas radiant heat I've been using an electric heater to save on gas. I converted to fluorescent light bulbs some time ago, and am saving up for my next car which will be some kind of hybrid. I'm doing all I can do personally but until we as a nation organize ourselves (much like they did during WWII, I was thinking recently) I can't imagine that my little contributions are making much of an impact.

My office is an arts organization and we've decided we can be creative with the solar panels so that they look like an art installation.
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