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Old 04-21-2020, 10:09 PM   #561
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Global Pandemic Part II: Sequel Escalation

Their support is less than 20%. Fox wants the drama and a new Tea Party movement to breathlessly report on.


https://www.vox.com/2020/4/20/212250...group-michigan
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Old 04-21-2020, 10:37 PM   #562
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Old 04-22-2020, 12:15 AM   #563
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Global Pandemic Part II: Sequel Escalation

https://twitter.com/aishacs/status/1...559332359?s=21

Tweet has two pics to read thru.

Basically GA is opening up those specific businesses to skirt paying unemployment, and secondly those types of business are run by minorities. So who cares if they can’t work, or try to work and die off
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Old 04-22-2020, 01:32 AM   #564
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Singapore was ready to come out of the lockdown and has now extended it by another month with massive outbreaks in their worker camps. They are now posting higher daily infection numbers than in their first wave - a great example of what happens when you are readying to reopen and get large crowds together again.

A lesson many US states are about to learn.
Hopefully it will also be a wake up call to economies that are building their metropolises on cheap imported labour: You can't just ignore their presence.
It seems Singapore did everything to contain the virus within their population, while these workers were commuting from their crowded places of shelter to construction sites etc. and back, without anyone taking into consideration what might happen if one person were to carry the virus into these communities.

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If there's no scientific modeling behind it then it's just speculation. I'm all for facing the reality of the current situation, I just don't see how statements like his are helpful. Unless like you say it can get some people to take things seriously.

I've heard the term "panic porn" used and it does apply in some instances. Of course CNN reported his comments as breaking news. CNN is panic porn these days.
Since this is new, there's naturally a lot of uncertainty behind any prognosis about future implications of the disease. Of course this involves assumptions to be made, based upon what's known so far about the actual disease, and supported by what's known by other similar diseases. While it bears the possibility of being completely wrong, I'd think there's a greater probability of it not being entirely off the mark.

Not only in the US, but also e.g. here in Germany we seem to have entered the stage where there's a great yearning for a loosening of restrictions. In this phase I think it is responsible to remark that we are not off the hook, and with all that's known e.g. from the Spanish flu, where the virus got more evenly distributed during the summer months and then came back with deadly force in the fall, there's reason for caution.

So I'd rather call it an educated guess than speculation. And after all, scientific modelling is just that. You take what you know, add in assumptions you can make, and plot all these variables in a multitude of constellations to create different scenarios for the next few months.
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:42 AM   #565
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I'm going to laugh at any governors who loosen the restrictions only for nobody to show up to work or patronize these places because they're still wary. I mean, what are they going to do if most of the citizens still refuse to leave their homes?
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Old 04-22-2020, 03:51 AM   #566
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Just want to tell you that I've called it many times. Please try not to think of it as resorting, you're doing a very good thing by knowing when you need some help and seeking it out. And I don't understand your specific troubles because they are yours, but believe me I do understand what it's like in general . Please reach out here if you feel comfortable doing that. I know you said you live with anxiety, I do too and I have for a long time now.
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Agreed, and many of us here are happy to lend an ear if ever needed.
From the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you all for your kind words and support. As bleak as things seemed last month, it's the knowledge that there were people out there who really cared that allowed me to hang in there. Family, friends here in California, this site and others; they all kept me from feeling alone. Loneliness and depression are a powerful team and thankfully I only have to deal with one of them.
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Old 04-22-2020, 03:52 AM   #567
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Have you guys seen this story about the oral polio vaccine being used to offer 2-3 month boosts to innate immunity?



It's very interesting and I'm looking forward to seeing what they find out in their double blind Baltimore/Mount Sinai study, but watch people run to their GPs begging for polio on a sugar cube once Trump sees this.

It works very, very similarly to that TB shot they were talking about using a few weeks ago as a booster. It's not permanent by any means, but even a couple months could be life saving if a treatment like remdesivir is passing through the FDA.

Most likely, we won't be able to use this tactic until next flu season, but it could be helpful for a lot people because these vaccines are cheap and there's a lot of them already manufactured.

Like I always say with proposals like this, don't expect anything, but hope for the best. I think it's really cool.

Here is a separate article in USA Today regarding innate immunity that Dr. Gallo, one of the researchers who discovered HIV as the infectious agent behind AIDS, collaborated on:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mn/5162859002/

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Ultimate control over COVID-19 will be possible only after a large part of the world population becomes immune. This can happen either after a large fraction of the world population gets infected or by prophylactic vaccination. Efforts are underway to accelerate the development of safe and effective vaccines. However, vaccines can be used for mass immunization only if they prove to be safe and effective by thorough clinical evaluation. Given the time this requires, vaccines specific to COVID-19 are likely to remain unavailable for mass immunization during the current pandemic.

In the meantime, we propose an approach to mitigate the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic through the use of existing attenuated live viral vaccines. In particular, oral polio vaccine has been documented to induce protection against a number of viral and bacterial infections. OPV, developed by Albert Sabin, consists of attenuated (weakened) poliovirus and has been used with great success in worldwide efforts to eradicate poliomyelitis.

The importance of innate immunity

In addition to protecting against polio by inducing antibodies that kill the virus, OPV activates other protective mechanisms, including an innate immune system, thus making people resistant to infections caused by other viruses and bacteria. For example, in large scale multicenter clinical trials conducted in the 1970s during outbreaks of seasonal influenza, OPV protected more people from influenza than most flu vaccines do. Furthermore, observational studies in many countries suggested that the hospitalization rate and the overall mortality among children immunized with OPV were consistently lower compared with unimmunized children, even in the absence of poliovirus in communities.

Related studies revealed that similar nonspecific protection can be induced by immunizing people with measles vaccine, tuberculosis vaccine (BCG) and some other live attenuated vaccines. These observations suggest that the nonspecific protective effects are a result of boosting innate immunity that is our body’s front-line defense against infectious agents. This protection would last for a period of several weeks or months preventing or reducing the severity of disease in immunized individuals and slowing down the spread of COVID-19.

Lower incidence of COVID-19 in countries using BCG could suggest that the nonspecific protective effects could last much longer. Involvement of innate immunity could be particularly important because there is an indication that it is suppressed by SARS-CoV-2, while immunization with live vaccines is expected to stimulate it.

OPV is a proven safe and inexpensive vaccine routinely used orally in young infants and even newborn babies around the world. Focused analysis and experimentation will be required to ascertain how best to deploy a vaccine conferring high immunity but for a limited duration.

In summary, we propose here that trials to test the potential of vaccination with OPV should be quickly explored as a tool to mitigate the pandemic until vaccines specific to SARS-CoV-2 become available. If the outcome of trials proves positive, this approach could be used to control this pandemic as well as subsequent waves of COVID-19, if they occur.

The demonstrated ability of OPV to activate nonspecific immune responses provides a unique opportunity to reset the course of the pandemic. Researchers are testing multiple drugs licensed for other indications to ascertain whether they are effective against SARS-CoV-2. Since strong science already points to the broad nonspecific protective effects of live attenuated vaccines, trials of OPV should now join the drug trails in the quest for effective tools against COVID-19.
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Old 04-22-2020, 04:32 AM   #568
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One last thing: keep a close eye on Ivermectin. Early results on it are incredible, and it's already widely available, but as with any number of candidate treatments it's a long way from being approved for COVID-19, if it even works in the human body as proposed.

https://www.thepharmaletter.com/arti...ty-study-finds

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...-within-2-days

Early trials are being funded by Bill and Melinda Gates:

https://www.thailandmedical.news/new...id-19-underway
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Old 04-22-2020, 06:11 AM   #569
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I know the articles mention they have yet to be tested on humans as you yourself have also pointed out...but it is really important to remember you see lots of drugs that are amazing in vitro but you get to humans many are not as successful.

I know people are really keen to hear about possibilities that offer hope, but I would remain sceptical until we have good human trial evidence.
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Old 04-22-2020, 11:16 AM   #570
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Just wanted to share what I found for anyone having issues with masks. The masks I bought from Etsy don't fit me perfectly. And with my overgrown hair and wearing while out walking...they weren't staying on properly.

And as health care people know they hurt your ears. So people are also selling ear savers, s hooks (those are the search terms) for masks. I'm hoping I can get some delivered quickly and it will solve my problem.

If you use a scarf or bandana it should be 100 % cotton, and as thick as you can make it.

They don't all look like this, you can get some that are more subtle. If anyone here knows the best kind to get please let me know.

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Old 04-22-2020, 11:25 AM   #571
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I know the articles mention they have yet to be tested on humans as you yourself have also pointed out...but it is really important to remember you see lots of drugs that are amazing in vitro but you get to humans many are not as successful.

I know people are really keen to hear about possibilities that offer hope, but I would remain sceptical until we have good human trial evidence.
They can even work well in animal studies but not in human trials.

For three years before I switched my path and went to law school, I worked in biomedical research. Our lab had 3 main streams but one of them was to come up with drugs that could treat lymphoma - and for every 50-60 compounds that looked promising in the lab, maybe 1 or 2 would be taken over by a pharmaceutical company for further testing.

The good news here is that there is a lot of collaboration around the world to come up with effective treatments, and later a vaccine. Not to say that there isn't usually, but these are extraordinary times and researchers are united in their work for the greater good as opposed to more direct funding for their lab or institution.

MrsS - did you see the trick with a paper clip to hold behind your ears?
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Old 04-22-2020, 12:07 PM   #572
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@anitram Yes I assume a paper clip could work like an s hook. I'll try it out, thanks
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Old 04-22-2020, 12:22 PM   #573
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Mike Bloomberg is coordinating and helping to finance a massive contract tracing project
for NY, NJ, CT.

Gov Cuomo said we can't be stupid by reopening too early. Where I live the reality is probably mid or late June. That is really tough to deal with. Schools already called off for the rest of the year.
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Old 04-22-2020, 12:39 PM   #574
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Schools already called off for the rest of the year.
This yesterday, while anticipated, was a crushing blow. My son just "celebrated" his birthday 2 weeks ago without seeing any friends. Hasn't been to school in over a month and now its the final 2 months without. Coupled with of course no extracurricular activities, he had a decent role in the spring high school musical as a sophomore which was a pretty big deal, usually just end up in the ensemble. Now that's gone too.

Just glad this isn't his senior year, those poor kids missing out on so much. Proms, final season of spring sports/drama/chorus etc., and worst of all no graduation ceremony. They are still hoping to do some kind of graduation ceremony here over the summer, but that of course still remains to be seen, and it certainly won't be quite the same if it does happen.

FU Covid-19 and the horse you rode in on.
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Old 04-22-2020, 01:45 PM   #575
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This yesterday, while anticipated, was a crushing blow. My son just "celebrated" his birthday 2 weeks ago without seeing any friends. Hasn't been to school in over a month and now its the final 2 months without. Coupled with of course no extracurricular activities, he had a decent role in the spring high school musical as a sophomore which was a pretty big deal, usually just end up in the ensemble. Now that's gone too.

Just glad this isn't his senior year, those poor kids missing out on so much. Proms, final season of spring sports/drama/chorus etc., and worst of all no graduation ceremony. They are still hoping to do some kind of graduation ceremony here over the summer, but that of course still remains to be seen, and it certainly won't be quite the same if it does happen.

FU Covid-19 and the horse you rode in on.
Yes I know that's all so tough on kids. And parents. Lots of talk that it was due to pressure from teacher unions. I worked in a school for part of last year. It was an eye opener, unfortunately not a good experience for me. It's definitely true that the teacher unions wield lots of power and influence.

Walsh says probably two months for Boston. And given the way Baker has been I think he'll go the same way. So maybe they called school based on that as well.

I do hope it will be sooner than that if that is possible. I get that we have to be extremely cautious, but people are also suffering. Financially, mentally, health wise because they're not seeking care for other medical issues. And in many other ways.

Based on a graphic I saw on CNN the earliest MA could start opening things would be first week of June.
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:44 PM   #576
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I don't expect that our kids will be back until September either. And then can absolutely see another shutdown in November or so.

This is a problem with a lot of downwind impacts. I have a 2- and 4-year old. So long as the daycare and the school remain closed, I am unable to return to the office. Our executives are talking about reopening the office in 3-4 weeks but what do they expect employees to do with their children? Leave them home alone?
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:58 PM   #577
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. Our executives are talking about reopening the office in 3-4 weeks but what do they expect employees to do with their children? Leave them home alone?
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Old 04-22-2020, 03:03 PM   #578
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And just had a $400K contract for this summer at MIT canceled due to budget cuts related to Covid-19. It was 12 weeks work for almost my entire crew.
Went from looking like probably our busiest year ever to certainly the worst and maybe the last in the blink of an eye.
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Old 04-22-2020, 03:58 PM   #579
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This is great because my cat literally just gave me and the kids a look like "Seriously, WTF are you guys still doing here?"
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Old 04-22-2020, 04:04 PM   #580
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