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I think Italy's situation is due to several factors, such as those mentioned above. I also read yesterday that about a third of Italians defied the lockdown.

Howiever, I think it needs to be considered that they were the first European country to experience this kind of spread of the virus, even though it seems that it actually first came to Germany via the company Webasto. That company had an employee from Wuhan visiting, but also operates in Northern Italy. So it's likely that an Italian or Italian-based employee contracted the virus in Munich and then carried it to Italy.

The thing is, in my mind, without Italy other European countries would not have been able to push through measures like those we are seeing now. There simply wouldn't be acceptance for that. No one would take it seriously enough. It is because of the stories coming out of Italy that people in other countries accepted the reports about exponential growth and that drastic measures are the only way to slow the spread.

Speaking from a German perspective, there are two opposing forces at work here: On the one hand, Germans are known to follow the rules. And that's what a lot of people are doing. But they do so because they see what's happening in Italy, and therefore they are taking the warnings seriously. But then there's also the historic knowledge of the dictatorships, especially the Third Reich, which has people almost paranoid whenever any freedoms are being curbed. These people fear that everything is just the precedent for a new dictatorship coming and enforcing a new brutal regime. Some of them may still have realized the dangers of Covid-19 and self-isolate, but then there are those who think this is all more fearmongering than anything else, and they need to defend their freedoms.

And of course there is no small amount of people who just think they are stronger than the virus (which they likely are, but that's of course besides the point).

Very insightful, I think we are having the same internal debate in the states. I know a lot of people who think this is a false flag and this is an attempt for a authoritarian regime to take over and curb our rights. What's funny I am seeing that from both the far left and the far right as well as the libertarian bend. They just blame different entities. Honestly I am very torn on this. I worry about our freedoms being lost, and laws being passed that are great in the short term but have lasting effects and unintended consequences (like the patriot act). I am also pissed about my daughter losing her senior year and senior year of soccer (I know that's petty, but its been part of our life for 12 years) but I am also very worried about the disease, I worry about my parents (in their 70"s) but also my kids, I have a young son that has lung problems, so I will err on the side of caution.
 
My GP won't even see me in person right now. I'm guessing if they had to check my lungs or something I would be brought in, but all consultations are through Skype now.
 
My GP won't even see me in person right now. I'm guessing if they had to check my lungs or something I would be brought in, but all consultations are through Skype now.


My wife used a teledoc yesterday, they prescribed her meds and she went and picked them up today.
 
Two summers ago, I was completely flattened by the flu. In June. I was able to see an NP via video chat through the app my doctors office has, she was able to get me Tamiflu at a nearby drugstore.

It is the way to go for relatively simple things, especially if you are generally health conscious and aware of your body.
 
There are some changes we're adopted during the pandemic that may prove to have some permanence, medical examinations included.

If we could get college costs down by trimming into overhead with more online courses, I think most would accept that compromise gladly.
 
https://twitter.com/shimonpro/status/1241379940915970051?s=21

I hope whoever made this decision had a really good reason.

You have to prioritize who you can test, since there aren't enough tests to just test everyone. And even if there were, there is limited capacity at the labs.

It's the same here, though the bottleneck are the lab capacity more than the test kits. Berlin can currently process 2000 tests a day, and they are working to increase that to 6000. But even then they will select who will get tested.

An interesting thread with observations from the lockdown in Italy: https://twitter.com/andreabagnato/status/1240692360532471812

Workplaces and businesses don't have to close down – it’s up to individual employers. Many people, from bank clerks to factory workers to delivery people, still have to go to work every day. There is more and more evidence that most contagion is happening on workplaces. 4/10
Yet, the dominant narrative is that the virus spreads because people go outside for a run or a bike ride. Walking and exercising has zero epidemiological risk, and is permitted under emergency laws, but has been immediately criminalised by news and social media. 5/10
The media amplify the (mostly fake) reports of “excessive crowding”. As a result, most public parks have been shut, meaning there's even less public space to go to. Many people are proactively reporting joggers to the police. 6/10
The vagueness of emergency laws has left it up to administrators and police depts to decide what is permitted. In Bologna, cycling has now been forbidden; in Naples, you can no longer go for a stroll, not even alone. 7/10

Seeing as SARS and H1N1 could easily be considered near misses, and that for a long time scientists have warned that more than an asteroid or massive volcano eruption, we should consider a pandemic as a realistic near-term threat, it has been such a colossal failure of the EU and also the individual European countries to not have put more resources into developing strategies should a pandemic break out. The EU even has something of a CDC equivalent, but you wouldn't know it existed. Each nation is utterly unprepared and now scrambling to come up with a response, and once we have dealt with the health crisis, we will have a massive economic crisis that I'm not sure how the EU will handle.

Also for who's interested, a really good interview with Christian Drosten, virologist at Charitè Berlin who developed the initial Corona test: https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundhe...ronavirus-pandemic-germany-virologist-charite
 
Very insightful, I think we are having the same internal debate in the states. I know a lot of people who think this is a false flag and this is an attempt for a authoritarian regime to take over and curb our rights. What's funny I am seeing that from both the far left and the far right as well as the libertarian bend. They just blame different entities. Honestly I am very torn on this. I worry about our freedoms being lost, and laws being passed that are great in the short term but have lasting effects and unintended consequences (like the patriot act). I am also pissed about my daughter losing her senior year and senior year of soccer (I know that's petty, but its been part of our life for 12 years) but I am also very worried about the disease, I worry about my parents (in their 70"s) but also my kids, I have a young son that has lung problems, so I will err on the side of caution.

Certainly the case here, too. You have people from the far left to the far right who are taking the illness very seriously. At the same time, you have people from the far left to the far right who believe in any form of conspiracy about it.

I also fully agree that especially in times of crisis laws do get passed that have serious long-term effects. For that reason, vigilance is necessary. We must make sure that measures taken are justified as much as possible, and any laws need to be temporary, so that after we are through this, we can reevaluate and then formulate long-term policies for the future.
 
There are some changes we're adopted during the pandemic that may prove to have some permanence, medical examinations included.

If we could get college costs down by trimming into overhead with more online courses, I think most would accept that compromise gladly.

Two summers ago, I was completely flattened by the flu. In June. I was able to see an NP via video chat through the app my doctors office has, she was able to get me Tamiflu at a nearby drugstore.

It is the way to go for relatively simple things, especially if you are generally health conscious and aware of your body.


Two good things they may come from this, I love the doc by video
 
More and more cities are passing shelter at home orders. Meanwhile DC residents are on the Mall and walking along tidal basin by the thousands.

I'll give you one guess about the age range of the overwhelming majority...





Like 90% of people on my social media have been screaming about staying the fuck home for like two weeks now and relentlessly posting articles about flattening the curve.

But if anyone listened to those people, Elizabeth Warren would be the nominee.
 
It’s beyond comprehension.

The morons lining up in Toronto for video games...words fail.

I am finding there is a bit of an authoritarian streak in me these days.
 
just found out my aunt in Argentina is in critical condition and in intensive care in Argentina from a sudden pneumonia. They are testing her for COVID19 but only one hospital in all of Argentina is testing for COVID19 so they may not find out for many days. She was otherwise healthy except for fighting some depression because her sister passed away of lung cancer a month ago. I’m praying she pulls through this but it was so sudden! Yesterday although she was sick, she was still doing well.
 
Listening to Cuomo right now.

He really is the kind of asshole you want to lead in a crisis.

Cuomo is a leader- I have really gained a lot of respect for him during this crisis-

If the dems were smart they would nominate him by acclimation at the convention. I'm a republican, but Cuomo would destroy Trump by like 40 states.
 
I fear that this will sink Trump for being an incompetent boob but ultimately make right wing nationalism more popular.

Or we all get lucky and the changing of seasons actually does eliminate this thing (likely temporarily), and folks believe it was cause Trump closed borders (too late) and he gets re-elected just in time for this thing to flare up again in November.
 
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