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Old 02-22-2008, 09:59 AM   #1
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Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

That means talking about the actual issues.

Rules of this thread: No talk of experience. No talk of Obama being all about change and hope. No talk of supporters being insane.

Give real arguments.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:22 AM   #2
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Well, since we can't talk about experience, I guess we will talk about economic plans. I personally believe that Obama is just promising waaaay to much. The only way his plans are going to work is by raising taxes. We have got a big ass debt to pay down due to this war. How are we going to do that, pay for these GIGANTIC social programs and keep our economy growing while raising taxes? It can't happen. The nations wealthiest will not be able to pay for these programs alone. If our unemployment rate was really high, I would say, ok, put more people to work and that will put more money in the coffers, but our unemployment rate in the US is not out of control. I'm really not sure what Mccain has promised yet. One thing is for sure. Never believe a politician.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby
I'm really not sure what Mccain has promised yet.
Kind of hard to promise something when you admit you don't really understand the economy:

Quote:
John McCain recently acknowledged, “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should.” He added, however, “I’ve got Greenspan’s book.”
What a dumb, DUMB thing to say. Watch for it in every Dem ad this fall.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby
Well, since we can't talk about experience, I guess we will talk about economic plans. I personally believe that Obama is just promising waaaay to much. The only way his plans are going to work is by raising taxes.
Can you point to anything specifically that causes you to believe his economic plans are impossible to carry out? I'm just curious as to what exactly you dislike about them.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


Kind of hard to promise something when you admit you don't really understand the economy:



What a dumb, DUMB thing to say. Watch for it in every Dem ad this fall.

I hadn't heard about that until it was mentioned during the debate last night. It reminded me of something Fred Thompson would've said.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:44 AM   #6
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While I don't agree with your argument, Abomb-baby, thank you for at least putting some substance into this forum.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:47 AM   #7
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Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
That means talking about the actual issues.
How many presidential elections have you voted in?
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:52 AM   #8
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Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

Quote:
Originally posted by deep


How many presidential elections have you voted in?
That's not even a fair question. It would be impossible for him to have voted in any elections or to vote in this one, and you know it. That doesn't mean he can't pay attention to the political process and the important issues facing our country. The general election will be my first time voting, but I paid attention to the process and issues during the 04 election when I was 16. A large number of people that do vote don't even have the slightest grasp of the issues or the candidates and where they stand. They vote like they're picking "Most Popular" for their senior yearbooks.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:58 AM   #9
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Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

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Originally posted by deep
How many presidential elections have you voted in?
0. Why do you ask?
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:00 PM   #10
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Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

Quote:
Originally posted by deep


How many presidential elections have you voted in?
Would it be fair if I asked you if senility were encroaching on you due to your age, and do you think said senility was impairing your ability to make sound judgements on who to vote for?

Come on Deep, you're better than that.
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:28 PM   #11
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Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

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Originally posted by U2isthebest
That's not even a fair question. It would be impossible for him to have voted in any elections or to vote in this one, and you know it.
I don't know it.

I am not sure of the ages of most of the posters in here. I do have some vague ideas.

A person can have wisdom at 15 and a person at 60 may not have much wisdom.

One advantage of living longer is that one can look back on decisions and evaluate what thinking lead to correct decisions and what thinking lead to incorrect decisions.

Hopefully I am not repeating my same mistakes over and over.

Each candidate is unique and presents certain advantages.

I only asked because I don't believe many people will go to the polls and not consider

experience. That will be one of the biggest factors people will consider.

To remove it from the discussion, makes the discussion not legitimate.

Experience does not always give one the advantage. If the election were between Obama and G W Bush. The Bush experience is a big disadvantage.
I would be campaigning for Obama.

And all the experience Bush Sr had did not prevent his lost to Clinton.

I certainly don't remember anyone saying you can't talk about experience in 1992 during the election between Bill Clinton and GHW Bush Sr.



Quote:
Originally posted by U2isthebest
They vote like they're picking "Most Popular" for their senior yearbooks.

We do seem to be having a kind of "American Idol" like phenomenon going on.

and that is working towards one candidate's advantage much more than the others.
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:35 PM   #12
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I suppose you don't have to worry about me, since I won't be old enough to go vote this November.
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:36 PM   #13
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

Quote:
Originally posted by deep


I don't know it.

I am not sure of the ages of most of the posters in here. I do have some vague ideas.

A person can have wisdom at 15 and a person at 60 may not have much wisdom.

One advantage of living longer is that one can look back on decisions and evaluate what thinking lead to correct decisions and what thinking lead to incorrect decisions.

Hopefully I am not repeating my same mistakes over and over.

Each candidate is unique and presents certain advantages.

I only asked because I don't believe many people will go to the polls and not consider

experience. That will be one of the biggest factors people will consider.

To remove it from the discussion, makes the discussion not legitimate.

Experience does always give one the advantage. If the election were between Obama and G W Bush. The Bush experience is a big disadvantage.
I would be campaigning for Obama.

And all the experience Bush Sr had did not prevent his lost to Clinton.

I certainly don't remember anyone saying you can't talk about experience in 1992 during the election between Bill Clinton and GHW Bush Sr.






We do seem to be having a kind of "American Idol" like phenomenon going on.

and that is working towards one candidates advantage much more than the others.
Philly has stated his age in here before, so while he or any of us could be lying, which you're absolutely right about, as far as we know he's 16. I was just saying that asking him how many elections he'd voted in without any further explanation to the question makes it seem as though you're saying a younger person couldn't truly understand the political process. I know that's not what you were trying to do, but it did come off that way. As for the "American Idol" comment, I agree. I'm going to paraphrase something Irvine said in another thread which is that voting based on who a voter likes better is nothing new. Every election that I can remember which dates back to fuzzy memories of 92, I'd hear adults around me say they "liked" this candidate more, so they were voting for him. It's not unique to Obama. There's always a smaller number of people who truly study a candiate's positions on issues and policy plans and then vote based on what would be best for the common good and values which is what all voters should do. The larger majority of voters has always turned the presidential election into the political equivalent of a middle school student council election.
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:39 PM   #14
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
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Sorry. When did I miss your birthday thread?
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:41 PM   #16
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Early January. Don't worry about it, though. I've trouble remembering my own friend's birthdays, how can I expect it of FYMers?
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
I suppose you don't have to worry about me, since I won't be old enough to go vote this November.

I'm not worried about you at all

Quote:
A person can have wisdom at 15
or 17
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:43 PM   #18
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Early January. Don't worry about it, though. I've trouble remembering my own friend's birthdays, how can I expect it of FYMers?

Damn. Oh well, I'll catch you next year.
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:44 PM   #19
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First of all, what's so bad about Obama's experience? He's been in politics for over ten years. What can he not do that McCain can?
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Old 02-22-2008, 12:44 PM   #20
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To get back on-thread, there is not a single policy reason that I would vote for McCain.

His health care plan is just idiotic. He's embraced this free-market ideology and thinks that it can correct for all the shortcomings of health care. That is clearly wrong, and worse than that, it's lazy.

I am not aware of any kind of economic policy and he's already said he doesn't know much about economics so that's that. As an aside, I don't think he's going to want to talk about this in the general anyway, since it's not the crux of his platform. He already showed poor judgment here by telling the people of Michigan that their jobs are not coming back. That much is true, but it goes to show you that he is completely tone deaf on the economy.

His 100 more years in Iraq is not just wrong, but it's not financially sustainable. The US cannot afford to stay there, plain and simple. His saber-rattling regarding Iran is just sabre-rattling in my mind, but it's nonetheless dangerous and it's precisely the sort of issue that will keep American allies from reconciling with the new administration.

I do believe he had a reasonable immigration policy, but I think he's started flip flopping and I have no faith at all that he has enough principles left to fight the party on it. Practically speaking, he can't anyway.

I haven't heard anything else come out of his mouth that is in some way progressive or will get something done. All he talks about is the war on terror, and treats all the other issues as a "by the way" sort of thing.

Aside from that, I have no respect left for him as a person, for a variety of reasons.
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