Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

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BonoVoxSupastar said:
I completely agree. But I used weak-willed for two reasons, one the original post of Snowlocks equating dabbling to weak-willed. And two many AA programs will teach that addiction is a disease, but giving into that addiction is a matter of weakness.

Gotcha - thanks for clarifying.
 
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phillyfan26 said:


That sentence up there cracked me up: "you're uninformed garbage." I like that.

But yeah, surely I'll bring up some threads of yours to illustrate my opinion of you. I don't really care if you've never said anything to me. You've been rude to plenty of people around here, and I remember.

I'm going to ask you the same thing: "Base that on something." Give me one indication why his race has anything to do with his motivation to run. Give me something that says he doesn't want to improve the country. Some quote, some action. Give it to me.

Why was he arrested for cocaine posession in the early '70s if he never smoked it?

Crack is different from cocaine just like cocaine is different from chocolate albiet to a much greater degree.

I already gave you the indications. I typed them right out for you.

And yes I've been rude, just as you have been in this very thread to a perfectly polite reponse to your request, and just like in my rude response to you, it's always a counter punch. Looking forward to those posts Philly. Keep them in context.
 
phillyfan26 said:
What indications? His momentum? How does that have to do with his race?

Everything. The day after he won his senate race, people were talking about him running for president in '08 and that was before we knew anything about him.
 
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Snowlock said:
Wow a whole ten page thread? can you get more specific? You could have just done this:

www.interference.com and saved yourself a little time.

http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4829554#post4829554
http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4829584#post4829584
http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4829802#post4829802
http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4829802#post4829802
http://forum.interference.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4829909#post4829909

Funnily enough, this was entirely your first punch, and not "counter-punching" as you've always preached.
 
Snowlock said:
Everything. The day after he won his senate race, people were talking about him running for president in '08 and that was before we knew anything about him.

How does that have to do with his race? :banghead:
 
Snowlock said:


Everything. The day after he won his senate race, people were talking about him running for president in '08 and that was before we knew anything about him.

So because "people" were saying this, that makes it for selfish reasons? :huh:

Come on, try, we need some stronger arguments than this...
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


So because "people" were saying this, that makes it for selfish reasons? :huh:

Come on, try, we need some stronger arguments than this...

Why? That's the extent of the argument. I'm giving my perceptions on a discussion board based on historical evidence. I'm not saying it's fact and even if I was, it'd still be my opinion that it's fact.

I specifically said that Obama shouldn't be precluded from running based on drug use, and I specifically said that him being elected wouldn't ruin the country. Nor did I say anyone else was any better. So why is this an issue?
 
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Snowlock said:

Running because of momentum

All I keep hearing in my head right now is my old Torts Prof's voice screaming "People, CAUSATION!!"
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

Originally posted by Snowlock
Can't trust Obama either. He was just elected to the Senate. His candidacy strikes me as just doing it to see if he can, to see how far he can ride the wave he's on and to see if a black man can be president. I don't have a problem with anyone being president if they are doing it to serve the best interests of their country. I'm just can't shake the feeling Obama is running to serve himself. It's a bit too oportunistic. I don't like the drug thing from his past either. It tells me he's not the strongest willed person.

Give me a reason. You haven't.
 
phillyfan26 said:


How does that have to do with his race? :banghead:

:mad: :evil: :madspit: :censored: :lol: :sexywink: :scream:

There I can do them too. What is that supposed to convey?

What is your goal here anyway? Your initial post seemed to be to ask about both candidates equally. You are only taking issue with the suppositions about Obama, and not Hillary or McCaine. Were you looking for opinions or justifications for your own opinions anyway?
 
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anitram said:


All I keep hearing in my head right now is my old Torts Prof's voice screaming "People, CAUSATION!!"

A discussion board is not a court of law. We're not writing history books, we're giving opinions.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

phillyfan26 said:


Give me a reason. You haven't.

I never said I could! You quoted me yourself and you missed it the second time through as well. I'm not going to teach you history or how to read but I'll give you a third shot:

His candidacy strikes me
 
Snowlock said:


Why? That's the extent of the argument. I'm giving my perceptions on a discussion board based on historical evidence. I'm not saying it's fact and even if I was, it'd still be my opinion that it's fact.

I specifically said that Obama shouldn't be precluded from running based on drug use, and I specifically said that him being elected wouldn't ruin the country. Nor did I say anyone else was any better. So why is this an issue?

Um. OK... :eyebrow:
 
Snowlock said:


A discussion board is not a court of law. We're not writing history books, we're giving opinions.

Fair enough.

In that case your opinion that the momentum is the reason Obama is running is specious.
 
anitram said:


Fair enough.

In that case your opinion that the momentum is the reason Obama is running is specious.

It'd be specious if it wasn't for the fact I knew he'd be running in 2008 the minute I saw him on TV in 2004.
 
Snowlock said:
:mad: :evil: :madspit: :censored: :lol: :sexywink: :scream:

There I can do them too. What is that supposed to convey?

What is your goal here anyway? Your initial post seemed to be to ask about both candidates equally. You are only taking issue with the suppositions about Obama, and not Hillary or McCaine. Were you looking for opinions or justifications for your own opinions anyway?

It's supposed to convey my increasing frustration with your utter refusal to give a legitimate reason for thinking Obama was running just to become a black president or to see if he could do it.

My goal here was to hear and debate arguments that weren't about Obama's lack of experience and lack of "substance besides 'Change! Hope!'" I even thanked abomb-baby for contributing on page one.
 
Snowlock said:


It'd be specious if it wasn't for the fact I knew he'd be running in 2008 the minute I saw him on TV in 2004.

And all of last year, where he trailed Hillary by double digits nationally and essentially in every state, he was running on this powerful momentum that was going to propel him to what? An obvious defeat?
 
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Snowlock said:
I never said I could! You quoted me yourself and you missed it the second time through as well. I'm not going to teach you history or how to read but I'll give you a third shot.

I quoted you again and bolded the part where you made the radical accusation that Obama's only running to see if he can become a black president and "ride the wave."

Why do you think this? What reasoning did you use to come to this conclusion? What has Obama done to indicate this is his motivation?
 
anitram said:


And all of last year, where he trailed Hillary by double digits nationally and essentially in every state, he was running on this powerful momentum that was going to propel him to what? An obvious defeat?

When he was trailing in the electicion campaign I new he'd be kicking off back in 2004 through my specious reasoning you mean?

I never said he'd win or even intimated on how well he'd do. Objection, your honor, counsel is drawing conclusions.
 
I honestly don't understand half of what you're saying.

You claim he is running because of momentum. I don't think there was anything like momentum until Iowa. What happened in 2004-2007 was a media fascination with the guy, but it was certainly nothing as large scale as to call momentum. Perhaps you decided back then that he'd run - how that shows that he is running BECAUSE of momentum, I'm not sure. Unless you want to impute intention on him.

And FYI, "counsel" is an American invention.
 
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phillyfan26 said:


I quoted you again and bolded the part where you made the radical accusation that Obama's only running to see if he can become a black president and "ride the wave."

Why do you think this? What reasoning did you use to come to this conclusion? What has Obama done to indicate this is his motivation?

Dude seriously. Fourth time. The wave is the reasoning. The mere fact that he's running indicates the motivation. If I don't look at it from that perspective, the only other is this "hope" business, even though we don't know what he is hopeful for.

And no, you've got it backwards, I think he's running to become president to ride the wave first and foremost, not because he's black. Many politicians would go the same route he did if they had such a splashy win in '04. Has nothing to do with the color of his skin. The color of his skin only gives it historical significance.
 
anitram said:
I honestly don't understand half of what you're saying.

You claim he is running because of momentum. I don't think there was anything like momentum until Iowa. What happened in 2004-2007 was a media fascination with the guy, but it was certainly nothing as large scale as to call momentum. Perhaps you decided back then that he'd run - how that shows that he is running BECAUSE of momentum, I'm not sure. Unless you want to impute intention on him.

And FYI, "counsel" is an American invention.


The mere fact that there was media fascination with the guy between 2004-2007 lead to his candidacy. He would not be here today were it not for media attention following his senate victory. And yes, it was as large of scale to call it momentum. The guy went from absolutely unknown to among the top of American consciousness overnight and somehow in the intervening years managed to stay there.

As to counsel as an American invention, okay but what does that have to do with anything? You were bringing legal propriety into the discussion yet started to draw your own conclusions which anyone in the legal realm knows is a cardinal sin.
 
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phillyfan26 said:

That was a punch? I guess I could see how when I was speaking in general terms, a person took it specifically, and I'll own that one. Yet it's interesting that you quote BVS yet I hadn't spoken to him previously.
 
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Snowlock said:
Dude seriously. Fourth time. The wave is the reasoning. The mere fact that he's running indicates the motivation. If I don't look at it from that perspective, the only other is this "hope" business, even though we don't know what he is hopeful for.

And no, you've got it backwards, I think he's running to become president to ride the wave first and foremost, not because he's black. Many politicians would go the same route he did if they had such a splashy win in '04. Has nothing to do with the color of his skin. The color of his skin only gives it historical significance.

What the hell are you talking about? I'm asking why you think he's using the wave to run. You can't say he's using the wave to run because he's using the wave to run! That doesn't make sense! Why do you think he's using the wave to run? Why do you think his motivation isn't changing America for the better?

That's literally the exact equivalent of me saying Rush Limbaugh is a racist because he's a racist.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Agains

phillyfan26 said:


What the hell are you talking about? I'm asking why you think he's using the wave to run. You can't say he's using the wave to run because he's using the wave to run! That doesn't make sense! Why do you think he's using the wave to run? Why do you think his motivation isn't changing America for the better?

That's literally the exact equivalent of me saying Rush Limbaugh is a racist because he's a racist.

God almighty. Stick with baseball.
 
anitram said:


And all of last year, where he trailed Hillary by double digits nationally and essentially in every state, he was running on this powerful momentum that was going to propel him to what? An obvious defeat?



see, this is what people are missing.

he's winning for a reason. she started out with way more money, way more name recognition, and she's literally in bed with a very popular, very successful ex-president. she's one of the faces of the now dearly missed 1990s peace and prosperity. she is a certifiable superstar in the democratic party and surely one of the most famous women in the world. they had every reason to run her, in the beginning, on a sense of inevitability. the moment she won the Senate in 2000 everyone knew she was going to make a run for the presidency. and her entire Senatorial career has been micromanaged with extreme prudence given to the larger picture -- her eventual presidential run.

and he's totally beaten her in every aspect of this campaign. someone with only one "real" campaign under his belt. and he's done it fair and square.
 
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