Get ready.........

[verte76]

I am very nervous. I can see it now, someone turns on the TV at work and...............


Bush Says Monday 'A Moment of Truth' on Iraq

Updated 2:02 PM ET March 16, 2003


LAJES AIRBASE, Azores (Reuters) - President Bush said at an Iraq crisis summit that Monday was "a moment of truth for the world" and he would push for an Iraqi interim authority to build a free Iraq.

"We concluded that tomorrow is a moment of truth for the world," he told a news conference on Sunday in the Azores joined by the leaders of Britain and Spain.

The U.S. president did not elaborate but Monday was the deadline the United States and its allies had given Iraqi President Saddam Hussein for disarming.

"The Iraqi regime will disarm itself or the Iraqi regime will be disarmed by force -- and the regime has not disarmed itself," Bush said.

"We will push as quickly as possible for an Iraqi interim authority to draw upon the talents of Iraq's people to rebuild their nation. We are committed to the goal of a unified Iraq with democratic institutions.

"To achieve this vision, we will work closely with the international community, including the United Nations and our coalition partners.

"If military force is required, we will quickly seek new Security Council resolutions to encourage broad participation in the process of helping the Iraqi people to build a free Iraq."

Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar and British Prime Minister Tony Blair told the news conference said they were committed to the creation of a Palestinian state alongside Israel.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I was just watching this on News 24.

The one argument that's really annoying to me right now is this idea that "we have to go to war to disarm Saddam in order to fulfil the will of the UN." Now, the UN Security Council has clearly REJECTED the use of military force at this time, so please explain to me how in the world the US/UK/Spain can claim to be using force to uphold the will of the UN? If they go to war then they are violating the will of the UN and doing a huge amount of damage to the position of the UN in world affairs

 

[verte76]

They are using the UN in a weird way. They are using the resolution that was approved in November.
At this point any excuse for a war. I have never been this scared about world events. And I was around for the Cold War. The fear factor for that was peanuts compared to this.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I know what you mean, verte

The events in the world right now are pretty terrifying. I keep hearing all these horrifying reports about terrorists who are ready to launch attacks if this war goes ahead. Not to mention the fact that it could cause real chaos in the Middle East and everyone always said that if there was another world war it would start there. And half the countries in the world (not literally) have nuclear weapons now, enough to just destroy the world ten times over.

So...there are my irrational fears about war with Iraq. I just keep reminding myself that no matter how scary it looks from this cozy town in the UK, it must be a million time more frightening to be a person in Baghdad, knowing that in just a few days there could be thousands of missiles being dropped on your home.

 

[follower]

So...there are my irrational fears about war with Iraq. I just keep reminding myself that no matter how scary it looks from this cozy town in the UK, it must be a million time more frightening to be a person in Baghdad, knowing that in just a few days there could be thousands of missiles being dropped on your home.

You know FizzingWhizzbees, whenever I read about Iraqi people nowadays I can't help but thinking about them like those men/women sentenced to death penalty in US, waiting to be executed, you know like caracthers of those Hollywood movies Dead Man Walking and Monster's Ball.

For you and the british people who have protested so firmly against Tony Blair and his "sincerely wrong" decision, some of my all time favourite non-U2 songs, all written by great british songwriters:

Imagine, by John Lennon

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one


Brothers in Arms, by Mark Knopfler

These mist covered mountains
Are a home now for me
But my home is the lowlands
And always will be
Some day you'll return to
These valleys and these farms
And you'll no longer burn
To be brothers in arms
Through these fields of destruction
Baptisms of fire
I've watched all your suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
you did not desert me
My brothers in arms

There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones

Now the sun's gone to hell
And the moon's riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But it's written in the starlight
And every line in your palm
We're fools to make war
On our brothers in arms

Russians, by Sting

In Europe and America, there's a growing feeling of hysteria
Conditioned to respond to all the threats
In the rhetorical speeches of the Soviets
Mr. Krushchev said we will bury you
I don't subscribe to this point of view
It would be such an ignorant thing to do
If the Russians love their children too

How can I save my little boy from Oppenheimer's deadly toy
There is no monopoly in common sense
On either side of the political fence
We share the same biology
Regardless of ideology
Believe me when I say to you
I hope the Russians love their children too

There is no historical precedent
To put the words in the mouth of the President
There's no such thing as a winnable war
It's a lie that we don't believe anymore
Mr. Reagan says we will protect you
I don't subscribe to this point of view
Believe me when I say to you
I hope the Russians love their children too

We share the same biology
Regardless of ideology
What might save us, me, and you
Is that the Russians love their children too

 

[verte76]

I know what you mean, verte

The events in the world right now are pretty terrifying. I keep hearing all these horrifying reports about terrorists who are ready to launch attacks if this war goes ahead. Not to mention the fact that it could cause real chaos in the Middle East and everyone always said that if there was another world war it would start there. And half the countries in the world (not literally) have nuclear weapons now, enough to just destroy the world ten times over.

So...there are my irrational fears about war with Iraq. I just keep reminding myself that no matter how scary it looks from this cozy town in the UK, it must be a million time more frightening to be a person in Baghdad, knowing that in just a few days there could be thousands of missiles being dropped on your home.

I know. Damn.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I love those songs and I know exactly what you mean about the Iraqi people, follower

I can't stop thinking about how awful it must be to be in Iraq now and have no way of getting out. I saw a news report the other day which said that anyone in Baghdad who is wealthy enough to afford to leave has already gone. It's only people who have no way out who are still there.

I can't help but imagine what it would be like if I lived there, if I knew that in a few days time my home might be destroyed, that me or the people I love might be hurt or even killed. I can't stop imagining what my neighbourhood would look like if it had thousands of bombs and missiles dropped on it. And that's just me sitting in my safe little UK town knowing nothing like that will happen. And yet it still almost makes my cry when I think about it. Honestly, whenever I think I can't do any more anti-war campaigning, that's what's motivating me to keep doing it, because that's what's at stake here.

 

[verte76]

This stuff has been motivating my protesting, too. There is going to be a most horrid humanitarian disaster with hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing the bombs. Good grief, everyone in Baghdad is living under a sentence of death. I don't think my little neck of the woods here in the U.S. would be attacked. No one around here has any power, we had our military bases shut down years ago, but we are still nervous about losing jobs. I'm afraid the economy is going to go to hell in a haybasket for everyone. This sucks.

 

[U2girl91289]

I guess that there's no way around a war. Life is going to get even more messed up than before, especially in NYC and Washington. I wonder if Bin Laden knew how much he was going to mess up the world after 9/11.All of this ties in to terrorism, and we're only more aware of terrorism b/c of him. If only we could go back to the pre 9/11 days, where you could go somewhere and not have to worry about there being a life changing incident.

 

[hiphop]

Brothers in Arms, by Mark Knopfler

These mist covered mountains
Are a home now for me
But my home is the lowlands
And always will be
Some day you'll return to
These valleys and these farms
And you'll no longer burn
To be brothers in arms
Through these fields of destruction
Baptisms of fire
I've watched all your suffering
As the battles raged higher
And though they did hurt me so bad
In the fear and alarm
you did not desert me
My brothers in arms

There's so many different worlds
So many different suns
And we have just one world
But we live in different ones

Now the sun's gone to hell
And the moon's riding high
Let me bid you farewell
Every man has to die
But it's written in the starlight
And every line in your palm
We're fools to make war
On our brothers in arms

I like those songs... the Mark Knopfler one is perfect for the mood...

fools...

fools...

So, does anyone have news about that meeting? I?m not able to get any news from the Azores, those tiny islands in the Atlantic sea, where so-called leaders are deciding about about so many people?s lives...

fools...

 

[follower]

So, does anyone have news about that meeting? I?m not able to get any news from the Azores, those tiny islands in the Atlantic sea, where so-called leaders are deciding about about so many people?s lives...

fools...

For those who can read in portuguese there is updated and full coverage here:

http://www.rtp.pt/index.php?article=47767&visual=5

 

[meegannie]

 

[Basstrap]

Joni Mitchell

By the time we got to Woodstock
We were half a million strong
And everywhere there was song and celebration
And I dreamed I saw the bombers
Riding shotgun in the sky
And they were turning into butterflies
Above our nation

We are stardust
We are golden
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden

 

[Klaus]

Nothing new, Bush blackmails the UN again

"last chance for the United Nations"

Klaus

 

[verte76]

Screw it, there's no hope.

 

[hiphop]

from www.cnn.com

Bush: Monday 'a moment of truth' on Iraq
Powell: 'The curtain is coming down'
Sunday, March 16, 2003 Posted: 3:47 PM EST (2047 GMT)

LAJES, the Azores (CNN) -- President Bush said Sunday the opportunity for a diplomatic solution to the confrontation with Iraq would end Monday, calling it "a moment of truth for the world."

Bush said he hopes the United Nations "will do its job," but warned that France's threatened veto of any U.N. resolution to authorize force means that "cards have been played."

Bush made his comments after a brief summit in the Azores with British Prime Minister Tony Blair and Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar. A British official had described the meeting as the "last chance for diplomacy."

"No one is pretending things are other than difficult," the British official said.

Frustrated by opposition to their hard-line stance on Iraqi disarmament, the architects of the "coalition of the willing" converged on Terceira, an island of the Portuguese Azores in the Atlantic Ocean, to decide what to do next.

The three countries are co-sponsors of a new U.N. resolution that would set out disarmament tests for Iraq with a do-it-or-else deadline -- a resolution that even sponsors concede has failed to garner the support it needs to pass through the U.N. Security Council.

Vice President Dick Cheney Sunday hinted Sunday at how near a Bush decision might be on whether to launch a war against Iraq.

"Given where we are, both diplomatically as well as in the region, we're getting close to the point where the president is going to have to make an important decision," Cheney told CBS's "Face the Nation."

Asked whether it was likely that Saddam might try to pre-empt a U.S. invasion by attacking first, he said, "That's a possibility." (Full story)

Bush and Blair maintain they already have authority, under previous U.N. resolutions, for a military strike on Iraq, regardless of the outcome of the current debate.

When asked about Security Council efforts to bring about a peaceful solution to the crisis, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell told CNN's "Late Edition," "The curtain is coming down now. We can't continue to go like this."

"It is unfortunate that there are members of the council who say 'give it more time, give it more time' and 'the inspections are working,'" Powell said. (Full story)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

from http://www.un.org/apps/sg/offthecuff.asp

New York, 14 March 2003 - Remarks by the Secretary-General following the Public Lecture Series

Q: [inaudible] ? on Iraq, is there not much to talk about?

SG: It's not over until it is over.

Q: Did you talk about the difficulty that they're having with the 6 countries with the President of the Security Council?

SG: No, I didn't.

Q: You did not.

SG: I know there are discussions going on, but I didn't discuss it with the President.

Q: Do you think there will be hope, Sir? Do you still have hope?

SG: I still have hope.

 

[mad1]

You know what - in this lifetime, I never ever thought I would be, with millions of others, seeing, and above all, living, in a new World War.

I am scared.

I know that crazy Saddam will have so many thousands of weapons hidden in so many diff areas.........he will not be defeated.........and I do reckon this world is gonna suffer badly and my terrible selfish question is - 'Will I survive, or am I going to die?' 'Who else?' 'What the heck is really gonna happen once the light is green?'
Oh........Somehow I feel that if it was so out-of-control and cities were hit everywhere I know I would just feel like sitting with my family on the floor, holding hands, eyes closed and just.....praying.

Yes, yes, my post was hilarious, I know, selfishly hilarious.......but its IS scary - u have to admit.....I know Im not the only one.......and nothing serious could happen for ages.........but like, gawd knows........
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs everyone)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Y'all will have to forgive my naiveness!



oh and PS, I AM aware of the many mothers and fathers who have sons out there about to fight, who are worried beyond belief........because if anything, they are more vulnerable at the moment.........and they did not choose this war.............

But I do not look forward to the thousands of deaths........and yes, I am pessimistic on all of this...............

no-one can change that........

ya know watching Bush and Blair last night on TV, a real spookiness occured.............

however my thoughts are with the innocent pple over THERE panicking.....there will be so many deaths.......

 

[hiphop]

Fine post, maddie.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=6469&Cr=Iraq&Cr1=

16 March ? The United Nations Security Council will hold a closed-door meeting on Monday to discuss a text being put forward on Iraq.

A UN spokesman in New York reported that the 15-member body will meet tomorrow afternoon "in connection with the Joint declaration by France, Germany and Russian Federation on Iraq."

 

[Anthony]

Why fear the inevitable? Yes, it has always been inevitable, and now the world must face it.

What saddens me is how those who do support such a war will only realise that they were so terribly wrong when it is all too late, and their apologies won't be worth anything at all. Such minds only break when the rivers of blood are right beneath them. No, this won't be a particularly bitter war, I don't feel. You won't see body bags of young American men being sent back by the thousands, but you will see the world becoming all the more scarier. Where once we only had one Osama Bin Laden, we will now have plenty more; just because you simply haven't thought it through and have given your leaders the right to think for you.

This war will create more 9/11's in the long run.

Ant.

 

[yertle-the-turtle]

When I wake up tomorrow, there will be war.

I do not like this feeling, and I am scared to death.

Is there no peace in this world?

 

[Klaus]

yertle-the-turtle:

as long as there are people who profit from war there will be war

 

[meegannie]

Now I have "Profit In Peace" in my head.

 

[meegannie]

I guess we'll know something when Bush addresses the country tonight.

 

[verte76]

Why fear the inevitable? Yes, it has always been inevitable, and now the world must face it.

What saddens me is how those who do support such a war will only realise that they were so terribly wrong when it is all too late, and their apologies won't be worth anything at all. Such minds only break when the rivers of blood are right beneath them. No, this won't be a particularly bitter war, I don't feel. You won't see body bags of young American men being sent back by the thousands, but you will see the world becoming all the more scarier. Where once we only had one Osama Bin Laden, we will now have plenty more; just because you simply haven't thought it through and have given your leaders the right to think for you.

This war will create more 9/11's in the long run.

Ant.

That's so true. Damn. I'm trying not to go nuts over this but it might not be possible.

 

[Klaus]

meegannie: somehow i don't have a problem iif people profit from peace, because i prefer peace.
It's like i don't have a problem if someone profits from not killing someone other - well much better than murder someone because of money.

Klaus

 

[meegannie]

I know, I meant the song. By Ocean Colour Scene:

All the people under broken homes
Dont wanna fight no more
All the people nursing shattered bones
Dont wanna fight no more
But theres no profit in peace
So we've gotta fight some more

And all these who are in foreign lands
Dont wanna fight no more
And all those those lost their feet or hands
Dont wanna fight no more
But there's no profit in peace boys
We gotta fight some more

Hey we dont fight no more
Hey, Hey, Hey, We dont wanna fight no more
But theres no profit in peace
So we gotta fight some more

And all those just trying toplay their part
Dont wanna fight no more
And all those who own a human heart
Dont wanna fight no more
But there's no profit in what you want
So we must fight some more

And all those who got an axe to grind down
Dont wanna fight no more
And all those who got their burning lives
Dont wanna fight no more
But theres no profit in ever being right
So we must fight some more

Chorus

And all the people under broken homes
Dont wanna fight no more
All the people nursing shattered bones
Dont wanna fight no more
But there is profit in the land you own
So we must fight some more

And all those who got a tired face
Dont wanna fight no more
And all those who are lost without a trace
Dont wanna fight no more
But there is profit in the love of hate
So we must fight some more

 

[hiphop]

What saddens me is how those who do support such a war will only realise that they were so terribly wrong when it is all too late, and their apologies won't be worth anything at all. Such minds only break when the rivers of blood are right beneath them.

What saddens me, is that apparently many countries on this planet haven?t seen enough blood yet. The whole situation reminds me of 1914, when the first World War started.

Look at the language. Look at this ridiculous "Freedom Fries" thing set up for propaganda, or the "Axis of evil" f.e. - Austria-Hungary used similar rhetorics at the start of WW I, like "Serbien muss Sterbien" ("Serbia must die"), or Germans in the thirties (the Nazis didn?t want to call a nose "Nose", because the word originates from the latin term "Nasus", and therefore is not clean Arian - not politically correct, know what I mean).

Those who support such a war only learn for a limited period of time... look at history. Germany, after all those incredible cruelties of WW II, has learned something,... but only after 90% of the country was bombed back into Stone Age. And when the generation that survived is no more there, it may start again. So, Germany may have lerned something for a period of 50 years.

U.K. didn?t learn a lot, France didn?t learn a lot, after all, they were the winners. All the European countries have made war and more war and even more war as long as there was fucking munitions to use. It was not enough soldiers dying, not enough bloodshed.

And the United States? They have a long, long way to go. After all, why should the administration have learned anything out of some - apparently - minor tragic events, minor compared to WW II.

Some think the upcoming war is just. War never is. What do you feel when you look at the Vietnam memorial in Washington... that it was a just war?

So many graves. So much pain. So much horror.