Geology v. Religion

[anitram]

From here.

Washington, DC — Grand Canyon National Park is not permitted to give an official estimate of the geologic age of its principal feature, due to pressure from Bush administration appointees. Despite promising a prompt review of its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah's flood rather than by geologic forces, more than three years later no review has ever been done and the book remains on sale at the park, according to documents released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).

“In order to avoid offending religious fundamentalists, our National Park Service is under orders to suspend its belief in geology,” stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch. “It is disconcerting that the official position of a national park as to the geologic age of the Grand Canyon is ‘no comment.’”

This is lunacy. The US is becoming the laughing stock of the thinking world.

 

[BVS]

Fucking loons!

 

[Liesje]

Wow, I almost spit Coke all over my laptop.

 

[yolland]

Well it says right on the Park's official website how old it is, are they not allowed to say that in person or something?

The reviews for that guy's book on Amazon are...interesting.

 

[No spoken words]

That's sad, and, very frustrating. What an insane country this one is, wow.

 

[BonosSaint]

“In order to avoid offending religious fundamentalists, our National Park Service is under orders to suspend its belief in geology,” stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch. “

That is a wonderful, sardonic quote. And if this is true, the only piece of sanity in the whole situation.

I'm proposing an official change of name from The United States of America to Fantasyland.

 

[A_Wanderer]

The problem with flood geology is that it is complete bullshit, the evidence is much better explained with modern uniformitarianism.

Heres one puzzles, how do you get volcanic intrusions inside the pile that aren't quenched (which they would be if the rocks were layed down rapidly by a flood). Or how do we preserve ripple marks and sedimentary structures indiciative of depofacies of lower energy than flood. Why is there a progression in the fossils from organosedimentary stromatolites in the Precambrian units up to trilobites and molluscs beginning in the Cambrian.

Why a religious book would be sold from a tax money recieving public service is of course the much larger issue; and it's not a case of giving both sides of the issue it is of supressing the right side in the name of sensitivity and pandering. One just needs to look at the George Deutsch affair.

 

[1stepcloser]

Noah's Flood. Whatever next. I like America but every now and then these kinds of news stories come out and it reminds me of how many fundamentalists acually live there. Quite scary really.

 

[Axver]

Well it says right on the Park's official website how old it is, are they not allowed to say that in person or something?

Well, I can't speak about the Grand Canyon, but I can speak about Mammoth Cave in Kentucky. I think some of the literature they sell gives the cave's age, but they don't mention it on tours of the cave itself. I visited the cave in June 2005 and as we were walking from one part of the cave to another, I was near one of the tour guides and couldn't help overhearing his answer to the question from one visitor. He explained that, on the tours, they can no longer give the age of the cave due to pressure from religious fundamentalists. Now, this was over a year ago so I don't remember anything exactly, but I recall getting the impression that some fundies had actually argued with the guides and kicked up a fuss about creationism not being recognised. The conversation stuck in my mind because I was really surprised fundies had such an influence - they'd be either ignored or laughed at here in Australia and New Zealand!

 

[dazzlingamy]

oh mah gawd. It just gets worse and worse! *gapes open mouth as the freaky sideshow goes past*

 

[Vincent Vega]

- they'd be either ignored or laughed at here in Australia and New Zealand!

Here in Germany as well.
I would think all over Europe those fundamentalists are only a small minority and no one would ever stop giving scientifical data like the age of something over here.

 

[redhotswami]

In order to avoid offending religious fundamentalists, our National Park Service is under orders to suspend its belief in geology

"hey can you guys stop being geologists pls? kthxbye!"

omg this administration is run by tools.

 

[Angela Harlem]

I love the idea that geology is a belief.

 

[Angela Harlem]

*Not to imply I think that is what Jeff Ruch is saying, lol.

 

[redhotswami]

I love the idea that geology is a belief.

well DUH! all "ologies" are BELIEFS. The only truth is The Word!!!

 

[Angela Harlem]

:foreheadslap:

Silly me!

 

[Axver]

I love the idea that geology is a belief.

It's a denomination of that oh-so-Satanic religion, evolutionism!

 

[anitram]

The problem is that these people (and by extension, their views) are given attention in the US as if their beliefs are actually credible. Like creationism, when we get a national debate about whether or not it should be taught in science class. There should be no national debate. It is below any sentient being to engage in such a debate. There should be no compromise here, none at all, and because we've allowed these people to frame the discourse in such a way that they now have credibility in the public eye, their views have become something worthy of discussion. Well, they are not.

We are beyond the point of politeness here, this is sheer lunacy and insanity. When we start calling it that instead of validating it, perhaps things will begin to change.

 

[Liesje]

Some Fundies are truly a disgrace to Christianity AND this country.

Just so people don't think ALL Christian Americans are bat shit crazy, I went to a pretty conservative Christian school and was taught biology by an evolutionist. Studying science in a scientific manner, who'da thunk?!

 

[coolian2]

Geology doesn't exist anymore?


I'm out of high school just over a year and half of the stuff i learnt in geography is now void in the USA.

Lucky i didn't waste my time in science and biology.


Btw i second fantasy land.

 

[AussieU2fanman]

Fundamentalists - regressing human progression and knowledge ever since science came about

 

[A_Wanderer]

And if your going to pick a case for catastrophism why pick the Grand Canyon when there are much better examples of catastrophic floods in more recent deposits.

 

[Billy Rotten]

I thought Paul Bunyan made the Grand Canyon.

 

[martha]

I thought Paul Bunyan made the Grand Canyon.

He did, he did.

 

[martha]

It's thread like this that make me miss our FYM fundies. I'd love to hear their thoughts on this crap.

 

[mads]

I normally just lurk in this forum, but I just have to comment that this is the most batshit crazy thing I've read in a long, long time.

Those fundamentalists scare me.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Just so people don't think ALL Christian Americans are bat shit crazy, I went to a pretty conservative Christian school and was taught biology by an evolutionist. Studying science in a scientific manner, who'da thunk?!

Yes all Christians aren't bat shit crazy, they are according to some people in FYM but I digress...

I went to a Catholic college and was taught perfectly straightforward scientific biology as it should be taught, with no Catholic or Christian ideology thrown in. In fact the only time I learned anything religious was in my religious studies classes. And I certainly don't endorse this Grand Canyon craziness, it is bat shit crazy.

 

[A_Wanderer]

God of the gaps doesn't exist when knowledge fills it in, just wait for a rigourous testable theory of conciousness to punch a big hole in belief.

 

[redhotswami]

I went to a Catholic college and was taught perfectly straightforward scientific biology as it should be taught, with no Catholic or Christian ideology thrown in.

but isn't part of Catholic ideology embracing science?

 

[deep]

I thought Paul Bunyan made the Grand Canyon.

my dad told me a Scotsman dropped a nickle down a gopher hole