French scientist calls Gore a 'crook' and...

[the iron horse]

Dec. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Climate-change skeptics are taking a beating these days even in France, where people long resisted the green creed.

Paris bookstores brim with guidebooks -- including one shaped like a toilet seat -- that tell readers how to help save our planet. Yet the dissidents refuse to shut up, even now that Al Gore has won the Nobel Peace Prize and the U.S. government has agreed to negotiate a new global-warming treaty by 2009.

The most conspicuous doubter in France is Claude Allegre, a former education minister and a physicist by profession. His new book, ``Ma Verite Sur la Planete'' (``My Truth About the Planet''), doesn't mince words.

He calls Gore a 'crook' presiding over an eco-business that pumps out cash. As for Gore's French followers, the author likens them to religious zealots who, far from saving humanity, are endangering it. Driven by a Judeo-Christian guilt complex, he says, French greens paint worst-case scenarios and attribute little-understood cycles to human misbehavior.

The entire article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=aVvwX1RTVGr8&refer=muse

 

[financeguy]

Driven by a Judeo-Christian guilt complex, he says, French greens paint worst-case scenarios....

'Judeo-Christian guilt complex' - it is at least original. Climate change sceptics usually claim that the (overwhelming) majority of qualified scientists who agree that anthropogenic climate change is happening are motivated by a desire to introduce socialism.

Iron Horse, please post up some links to peer reviewed studies which cast doubt on anthropogenic climate change. I would imagine given that there is a lot of attention given to the views of climate change sceptics in the media that there are many such studies.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Well Financeguy, Jesus was a socialist, so you know, there's a melding of memes there.

 

[Kieran McConville]

Insert wry smilie here, I should add.

 

[the iron horse]

"Iron Horse, please post up some links to peer reviewed studies which cast doubt on anthropogenic climate change."

~financeguy


I will, but I'm waiting to hear some rebuttals on what this French scientist says.

Dissent is fun

 

[DrTeeth]

"Iron Horse, please post up some links to peer reviewed studies which cast doubt on anthropogenic climate change."

~financeguy


I will, but I'm waiting to hear some rebuttals on what this French scientist says.

Dissent is fun

From the article:

While the icecap of the North Pole is shrinking, the one covering Antarctica -- or 92 percent of the Earth's ice -- is not, he says.

From research:

University of Colorado at Boulder researchers have used data from a pair of NASA satellites orbiting Earth in tandem to determine that the Antarctic ice sheet, which harbors 90 percent of Earth's ice, has lost significant mass in recent years.

The team used measurements taken with the Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment, or GRACE, to conclude the Antarctic ice sheet is losing up to 36 cubic miles of ice, or 152 cubic kilometers, annually. By comparison, the city of Los Angeles uses about 1 cubic mile of fresh water annually.

"This is the first study to indicate the total mass balance of the Antarctic ice sheet is in significant decline," said Isabella Velicogna of CU-Boulder's Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences, chief author of the new study that appears in the March 2 online issue of Science Express. The study was co-authored by CU-Boulder physics Professor John Wahr of CIRES, a joint campus institute of CU-Boulder and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

 

[DrTeeth]

Other stuff from the article:

Nor have Scandinavian glaciers receded, he says.

From Wikipedia (based on peer-reviewed research):

Northern Europe

Arctic islands north of Norway, Finland and Russia have all shown evidence of glacier retreat. In the Svalbard archipelago, the island of Spitsbergen has numerous glaciers. Research indicates that Hansbreen Glacier on Spitsbergen retreated 1.4 km (0.87 mi) from 1936 to 1982 and another 400 m (1,300 ft) during the 16-year period from 1982 to 1998.(Glowacki) Blomstrandbreen, a glacier in the King's Bay area of Spitsbergen, has retreated approximately 2 km (1.2 miles) in the past 80 years. Since 1960 the average retreat of Blomstrandbreen has been about 35 m (110 ft) a year, and this average was enhanced due to an accelerated rate of retreat since 1995.(Greenpeace) Similarly, the Midre Lovenbreen Glacier retreated 200 m (656 ft) between 1977 and 1995.(Rippin, et alia) In the Novaya Zemlya archipelago north of Russia, research indicates that in 1952 there was 208 km (129 mi) of glacier ice along the coast. By 1993 this had been reduced by 8% to 198 km (123 mi) of glacier coastline.(Aleksey)

 

[DrTeeth]

Article:

To his relief, France has taken another path: Almost 80 percent of its electricity comes from nuclear reactors. What's more, France has a talent for eating its cake and having it, too: Although it signed and ratified the Kyoto Protocol, the country is nowhere near meeting the agreed targets.

Reality:

If all existing and planned domestic policy measures are implemented and Kyoto mechanisms as well as carbon sinks are used, the EU-15 will reach its Kyoto Protocol target. This projection relies on figures from several Member States which suggest that they will cut emissions by more than is required to meet their national targets.

And if you read the complete report, it says that France is on target:

Six more countries anticipate they will exceed (Finland, Luxembourg and the Netherlands) or meetSix more countries anticipate they will exceed (Finland, Luxembourg and the Netherlands) or meet (France, Germany and Greece) their commitment targets by additional measures, use of Kyoto mechanisms, use carbon sinks or a combination thereof.

Reading is fun

 

[BVS]

Dissent is fun

Yes, but dissent without reason or research is useless.

 

[2861U2]

Yes, but dissent without reason or research is useless.

Chapter one of Glenn Beck's new book. I recommend reading it.

ETA: Oh, and Christopher Horner's book.

 

[BVS]

No thanks I like intelligent authors.

 

[2861U2]

No thanks I like intelligent authors.

I like intelligent authors too. I also like getting both sides of a debate, and I especially like hearing about exagerrations and downright lies featured multiple times in a somehow Oscar-worthy film.

 

[BVS]

There are many intelligent conservatives. Beck is not one of them.

 

[2861U2]

Beck is not one of them.

Why don't you like him? Personally, he's my favorite media personality, and his book is outstanding.

 

[BVS]

Anyone who makes a comparison between those concerned about humans' effect on global warming and Hitler is an idiot.

 

[2861U2]

Anyone who makes a comparison between those concerned about humans' effect on global warming and Hitler is an idiot.

I'm not sure exactly what quote you're talking about, and it was probably a dumb thing to say, but it's hard to get mad at him when you've got things like this coming from the other side:

"Let's just say that global warming deniers are now on a par with Holocaust deniers, though one denies the past and other denies the present and future."

"When we've finally gotten serious about global warming, when the impacts are really hitting us and we're in a full worldwide scramble to minimize the damage, we should have war crimes trials for these bastards- some sort of climate Nuremberg."

"Every time you turn on an electric light, you are making another brainless baby."


Unless I'm taking these things out of context, right?

 

[BVS]

and it was probably a dumb thing to say,

Which is why he isn't intelligent.

but it's hard to get mad at him when you've got things like this coming from the other side:

"Let's just say that global warming deniers are now on a par with Holocaust deniers, though one denies the past and other denies the present and future."

"When we've finally gotten serious about global warming, when the impacts are really hitting us and we're in a full worldwide scramble to minimize the damage, we should have war crimes trials for these bastards- some sort of climate Nuremberg."

"Every time you turn on an electric light, you are making another brainless baby."

Who are these from?

 

[martha]

Why don't you like him?

Answering for myself here:

Even before I had any idea at all who he was, I would see him when I was trying to get the headlines on, of all things, Headline News. I would watch a few minutes and be really annoyed at his smugness and lameness. He seemed to be so full of himself, like he was more important than whatever story he was reporting. I still don't know hardly anything about him, but I still find him smug and annoying.

 

[2861U2]

Who are these from?

Ellen Goodman of the Boston Globe, David Roberts of the climate website Grist, and Helen Caldicott of the Union of Concerned Scientists.

 

[2861U2]

Which is why he isn't intelligent.

Oh, come on now. You've never said anything dumb? By your standard, everyone on earth is dumb.

 

[BVS]

Ellen Goodman of the Boston Globe, David Roberts of the climate website Grist, and Helen Caldicott of the Union of Concerned Scientists.

And has anyone on this board mentioned how they look up to these people or recommended their books? Just throwing out quotes for the hell of it won't get you anywhere. You brought up Beck, no one brought up these individuals. You need to stop lumping "the left" all together, it's a bad habit of yours.

 

[BVS]

Oh, come on now. You've never said anything dumb? By your standard, everyone on earth is dumb.

I can honestly say I've never said anything that abysmal. And that's just one quote, there are dozens more.

Rush and Beck are extremely discusting hypocritical hateful men and do not deserve the hero status you give them.

 

[2861U2]

You brought up Beck, no one brought up these individuals.

Correct, but like I said, it's hard for me to get real mad at him considering the outrageous quotes that I presented, and ones like them, seem never to be brought up; their idiocy never challenged. Again, whatever Beck quote you're talking about was a dumb thing to say, I'm sure. Same goes for Rush and any dumb thing he might say. Doesn't mean I still can't admire the men and their principles and ideas and beliefs. It's called forgiveness. Tell me some of your heroes (Al Gore, right?). I bet we can find a few stupid things they have said or done.

And I'm going to leave your "discusting, hypocritical, hateful men" spiel alone.


And please present me with the Beck quote you're talking about. I'd like to examine it.

 

[phillyfan26]

But Beck and Limbaugh are people you defend.

 

[BVS]

Correct, but like I said, it's hard for me to get real mad at him considering the outrageous quotes that I presented, and ones like them, seem never to be brought up; their idiocy never challenged. Again, whatever Beck quote you're talking about was a dumb thing to say, I'm sure. Same goes for Rush and any dumb thing he might say. Doesn't mean I still can't admire the men and their principles and ideas and beliefs. It's called forgiveness. Tell me some of your heroes (Al Gore, right?). I bet we can find a few stupid things they have said or done.

And I'm going to leave your "discusting, hypocritical, hateful men" spiel alone.


And please present me with the Beck quote you're talking about. I'd like to examine it.

Gore, my hero? No.

"Al Gore's not going to be rounding up Jews and exterminating them. It is the same tactic, however. The goal is different. The goal is globalization. The goal is global carbon tax. The goal is the United Nations running the world. That is the goal. Back in the 1930s, the goal was get rid of all of the Jews and have one global government. You got to have an enemy to fight. And when you have an enemy to fight, then you can unite the entire world behind you, and you seize power. That was Hitler's plan. His enemy: the Jew. Al Gore's enemy, the U.N.'s enemy: global warming. Then you get the scientists -- eugenics. You get the scientists -- global warming. Then you have to discredit the scientists who say, 'That's not right.' And you must silence all dissenting voices. That's what Hitler did."

Classy eh? This is the man you choose to admire. Along with his other racist, sexist, and homophobic comments I can't stand the man. You may be able to write them off as "dumb things he said", I on the other hand realize what you say often defines your inner feelings.

 

[2861U2]

You may be able to write them off as "dumb things he said", I on the other hand realize what you say often defines your inner feelings.

Wait, aren't you the same person that, whenever I present stupid quotes from Democrats, says "Oh, they're just quotes. Quotes don't mean anything"? Why all of a sudden so passionate?

Unless I misread, it appears that Beck did not say that Gore's mission and goal are anywhere close to being comparable. That being said, is it not true that Gore uses fear- mass, wild fear, as well as DOWNRIGHT LIES AND EXAGERRATIONS to get his message across and expand his movement? Hitler did that same thing. Gore also blends a small piece of truth with large quantities of untruth, and people believe him. And isn't it true that often, dissenting voices are ridiculed and/or shut down altogether, and become the target?

 

[BVS]

Wait, aren't you the same person that, whenever I present stupid quotes from Democrats, says "Oh, they're just quotes. Quotes don't mean anything"? Why all of a sudden so passionate?

What? I said those quotes have nothing on the actual failure of the war. What are you talking about?

Unless I misread, it appears that Beck did not say that Gore's mission and goal are anywhere close to being comparable. That being said, is it not true that Gore uses fear- mass, wild fear, as well as DOWNRIGHT LIES AND EXAGERRATIONS to get his message across and expand his movement? Hitler did that same thing. Gore also blends a small piece of truth with large quantities of untruth, and people believe him. And isn't it true that often, dissenting voices are ridiculed and/or shut down altogether, and become the target?

Yes, you misread it. He said the goal was different but the plan was the same. It was idiotic and it's hard to take an idiot seriously.

I haven't seen any downright lies or wild fear. I haven't seen anyone prove any downright lies. Do I think some exagerrate the urgency? Yes, but if you don't make it look urgent we'll continue to sit on our asses and do nothing about it. Global warming isn't anything new, yet we've been ignoring it for decades. If you want someone to come by and tell you you aren't at fault therefore you can't do anything it, in order to make you feel better, so be it. But I believe in trying to make this world a better place.

 

[financeguy]

Gore is Mr Pomposity personified, but comparing him with Hitler is stupid.

 

[maycocksean]

Unless I misread, it appears that Beck did not say that Gore's mission and goal are anywhere close to being comparable.

But you have to pay attention, though to get that point. Technically, he conceded that Gore's goal is not comparable, but he made sure that's the overall message you get anyway. And "the goal is the United Nations to run the world?" You really buy this stuff?

Gore also blends a small piece of truth with large quantities of untruth, and people believe him.

That sounds more like someone else we all know well. coughcoughrushlimbaughcoughcough.

And isn't it true that often, dissenting voices are ridiculed

There's a big difference between that and this. . .

and/or shut down altogether, and become the target?

The former is acceptable (though I'd argue it's not the best way to change the other guy's mind), the latter, not only acceptable but NOT happening to anyone either on the left or right in this country. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something.

 

[2861U2]

I haven't seen any downright lies or wild fear.

Here's one: Remember the depiction of Florida drowning, beginning to be covered by the ocean? Well apparently, that picture was- get this- "based on a water level rise that is 5 times higher than the high end of the worst-case scenario given by scientists who thought the UN report was too conservative."

One more interesting thing, taken directly from Beck's book that I found funny: "You seem to be criticized only if you say there will be less devastation. When Gore says there will be more, he's not only embraced, he wins Oscars."


But, if it doesn't bother you guys....