2861U2 said:
Here's one: Remember the depiction of Florida drowning, beginning to be covered by the ocean? Well apparently, that picture was- get this- "based on a water level rise that is 5 times higher than the high end of the worst-case scenario given by scientists who thought the UN report was too conservative."
2861U2 said:
One more interesting thing, taken directly from Beck's book that I found funny: "You seem to be criticized only if you say there will be less devastation. When Gore says there will be more, he's not only embraced, he wins Oscars."
But, if it doesn't bother you guys....
the iron horse said:
BonoVoxSupastar said:Why don't you debate?
martha said:Can I ask my question again, the one that no one here will answer?
Question: If the global warming people are wrong, what has been lost in getting people to conserve and be more mindful of their impact on the environment? If the global warming people are right, what has been lost ignoring their warnings?
Maybe this is the thread where I get an answer!
anitram said:
But I'd love a less predictable, more out-there answer.
phillyfan26 said:OK. So, let me get this straight. Because Al Gore has made incorrect statements, global warming must be made up?
Bullshit logic.
BonoVoxSupastar said:Anyone who makes a comparison between those concerned about humans' effect on global warming and Hitler is an idiot.
Well Beck is your hero and he's a denier, I figured you'd follow suit.2861U2 said:
Huh? When did I ever say it was made up? And when did I ever say we should ignore the issue, BVS? Sheesh, talk about exaggerations...
Yeah, I must have slept through the whole global cooling scare.2861U2 said:
The condition that we leave this planet in is important, sure. I'm all for not polluting or littering and all that good stuff. But the alarmism out there, mixed with the lies and exaggerations of AlGore's followers really make it hard for me to put global warming high on my list of important issues. What, all of a sudden, is so bad about there being skeptics who have facts to back them up and happen to point out some lies that everyone seems to not care about? Considering we've gone from worrying about global cooling to global warming back to cooling and now back to warming again, it's hard to take seriously and believe what is out there and presented to us. Is this not the same group of people in this forum who once told me to "challenge and question everything?"
How is this a comparible analogy in anyone's land of logic?2861U2 said:
And if you want to talk about bullshit logic, philly, how about martha's statement: If the global warming people are wrong, what has been lost in getting people to conserve and be more mindful of their impact on the environment? If the global warming people are right, what has been lost ignoring their warnings?"
Fair question, but that's like me saying, "Alright, I want all of you here to give me $1000. Now, I want you to pick a number 1-10. If you happen to pick the same number I was thinking of, I'll give you your money back. Assuming you don't pick the right number, I'll donate it all to charity."
2861U2 said:
The problem is the extremity of it, you see. I'm happy to not litter and to turn off lights when I leave a room. But telling me what cars to buy? Telling my what light bulbs I can and can't have? Telling me that global warming is as great a threat to me as radical Islamists? Telling me that Florida is going to be underwater WAY, WAY sooner than it actually ever would be? Sorry, those lies and irresponsible presentations just turns me off entirely.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Yeah, I must have slept through the whole global cooling scare.
BonoVoxSupastar said:funny that you get up in arms about this comparison, but are fine with comparing Gore to Hitler, very telling.
Do a little research, global cooling never had significant scientific support, that's why I said I must have slept through the "scare". So your bringing it up is absurd.2861U2 said:
No kidding.
No you wrote it off as a dumb thing he said, but continued to make the comparison yourself. Reread your own post.2861U2 said:
And you must have missed the multiple times when I stated that Beck said a stupid thing and shouldn't have said it. Do you only read every other word I post, or something? I don't get how you are missing all this stuff.
2861U2 said:
Look, I'm glad Al Gore is making the earth an issue again. I really am. I'm still wondering how a movie so full of alarmism, exaggerations and lies creating some skeptics is a suddenly viewed as such a terrible and unfathomable thing. Again, his message of helping the earth is fine, but the means of doing it are dishonest, which lead me to question the whole global warming movement, and no one here seems to care.
2861U2 said:
Again, his message of helping the earth is fine, but the means of doing it are dishonest, which lead me to question the whole global warming movement, and no one here seems to care.
2861U2 said:but the means of doing it are dishonest, which lead me to question the whole global warming movement,
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Do a little research, global cooling never had significant scientific support, that's why I said I must have slept through the "scare". So your bringing it up is absurd.
martha said:
Dismiss an entire school of thought because one of the adherents does something you think may be dishonest?
2861U2 said:
The idea of phasing out incandescent light bulbs, and ideas like them are completely laughable and pointless.
anitram said:
Why?
2861U2 said:
The idea of phasing out incandescent light bulbs, and ideas like them are completely laughable and pointless.
Seriously, do some research!!!2861U2 said:
I wouldn't be surprised at all if in 20 years, everyone is talking about global cooling. From Newsweek, 1975: "The evidence in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it."
Really, what have scientists said that you've seen "proven false entirely"? Just show me one.2861U2 said:
It's not just Gore. Scientists have said things that I've seen challenged and/or proven false entirely. Unlike most issues though, when it comes to global warming, I rarely hear honest questioning, which is never good.
This is laughable.2861U2 said:
The idea of phasing out incandescent light bulbs, and ideas like them are completely laughable and pointless. The hypocrisy among the global warming crowd is also laughable. Not only does Gore and his friends fly in jets, I bet they eat meat, too. And we all know how much worse methane is than CO2, right?
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Seriously, do some research!!!
It NEVER had a significant backing!
BonoVoxSupastar said:Really, what have scientists said that you've seen "proven false entirely"? Just show me one.
BonoVoxSupastar said:You just attack Gore and talk about obsolete theories.
2861U2 said:
Well, how about the statement I brought up earlier. Helen Caldicott of the Union of Concerned Scientists: "Everytime you turn on an electric light, you are making another brainless baby." I don't think I have to do much research to determine that that's a boneheaded statement.
2861U2 said:
Then explain why it was such a scare in the 1930s and 70s?
2861U2 said:
Then explain why it was such a scare in the 1930s and 70s? First off, we didn't know hardly anything about greenhouse gases back in the 70s, but it's not just that. It's not simply that science has gotten better or that we may have more evidence. What is also happening is that scientists say they are more certain than before, they use more colorful language to scare people, and they get more hostile towards dissenting voices.
That statement isn't scientific data. Come on man, you do know the difference, right?2861U2 said:
Well, how about the statement I brought up earlier. Helen Caldicott of the Union of Concerned Scientists: "Everytime you turn on an electric light, you are making another brainless baby." I don't think I have to do much research to determine that that's a boneheaded statement.
2861U2 said:
Right. Obsolete theories, like the fact that an entire continent switching lightbulbs results in a microscopic difference in emission. How about the fact that nitrous oxide warms the planet much, much more than does CO2, and the fact that methane cycles out of the atmosphere much quicker than does CO2. Therefore, not eating meat is a much more effective way to create change. Based on that, I could argue that any global warming activist who isn't a vegan is a hypocrite. Or how about your beloved Kyoto? Yeah, that's such a good idea. Even if everything the global warming people say is true (which it isnt) and Kyoto is totally successful (which is a long, long way off), the effect would still be unbelievably small. You really think Kyoto will work? Right. The same country that provided an incompetent response to a hurricane surely will be able to competently manage a nationwide system of caps of an invisible gas.
2861U2 said:Huh? When did I ever say it was made up? And when did I ever say we should ignore the issue, BVS? Sheesh, talk about exaggerations...
2861U2 said:The condition that we leave this planet in is important, sure. I'm all for not polluting or littering and all that good stuff. But the alarmism out there, mixed with the lies and exaggerations of Al Gore's followers really make it hard for me to put global warming high on my list of important issues. What, all of a sudden, is so bad about there being skeptics who have facts to back them up and happen to point out some lies that everyone seems to not care about? Considering we've gone from worrying about global cooling to global warming back to cooling and now back to warming again, it's hard to take seriously and believe what is out there and presented to us. Is this not the same group of people in this forum who once told me to "challenge and question everything?"
2861U2 said:And if you want to talk about bullshit logic, philly, how about martha's statement: If the global warming people are wrong, what has been lost in getting people to conserve and be more mindful of their impact on the environment? If the global warming people are right, what has been lost ignoring their warnings?"
Fair question, but that's like me saying, "Alright, I want all of you here to give me $1000. Now, I want you to pick a number 1-10. If you happen to pick the same number I was thinking of, I'll give you your money back. Assuming you don't pick the right number, I'll donate it all to charity."
Would you give me $1000? I don't think you would. And it's not because you don't like charity (just like how I'm not against helping the planet). What if the amount changed to $1 instead of $1000? I'd probably get a few more people willing to play along. The problem is the extremity of it, you see. I'm happy to not litter and to turn off lights when I leave a room. But telling me what cars to buy? Telling my what light bulbs I can and can't have? Telling me that global warming is as great a threat to me as radical Islamists? Telling me that Florida is going to be underwater WAY, WAY sooner than it actually ever would be? Sorry, those lies and irresponsible presentations just turns me off entirely.