Former Bush Team Member - WTC Collapse Likely A Controlled Demolition "Inside Job"

[A_Wanderer]

and afghanistan. i agree that i don't really think it was an inside job, but it is a little curious that the u.s. had plans drawn up to invade afghanistan well before the events of 9/11.

The US probably has plans on invading Canada on a dusty DoD shelf. They have contingency plans for everything, and what was the reason for invading Afganistan? Pipeline was it, that pipeline that is being made for and by a European consortium and not the US.

 

[Tennis05]

Until we get a better investigation I really don't think we need to underestimate the evil capabilities of Bin Laden. I just don't see how the government would take a one of a kind building like the WTC and be able to fool every engineer and expert into the thinking it was a plane crash when it really wasn't. highly unlikely in my mind.

 

[80sU2isBest]

any phase with that?

Naw, wanna make it as raw as possible without being dry.

 

[Se7en]

The US probably has plans on invading Canada on a dusty DoD shelf. They have contingency plans for everything, and what was the reason for invading Afganistan? Pipeline was it, that pipeline that is being made for and by a European consortium and not the US.

are plans fully developed by mid-july of 2001 considered dusty by september of 2001? :

Its purpose was not just to make money but to establish an American presence in Central Asia....on March 1, 2001, the Taliban provoked international outrage by blowing up two monumental ancient Buddhist statues at Bamiyan. The United States lost patience and concluded that "regime change" was in order...As Alexander's Gas & Oil Connections reported in February 2002, "Plans to destroy the Taliban had been the subject of international diplomatic and not-so-diplomatic discussions for months before September 11. There was a crucial meeting in Geneva in May 2001 between U.S. State Dept., Iranian, German, and Italian officials, where the main topic was a strategy to topple the Taliban and replace the theocracy with a 'broad-based government.'...Further meetings took place after the G8 session in Berlin among American, Russian, German, and Pakistani officials, and Pakistani insiders have described a detailed American plan of July 2001 to launch military strikes against the Taliban from bases in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan before mid-October of that year..."Bush's favorite Afghan," Zalmay Khalilzad, joined the National Security Council on May 23, 2001 just in time to work on an operational order for an attack on Afghanistan. On August 2, 2001, a former CIA officer held the United States' last official meeting with the Taliban in Islamabad. In light of this trajectory, it would appear that the attacks of September 11 provided an opportunity for the United States to act unilaterally to remove the Taliban, without assistance from Russia, India, or any other country.

taken from sorrows of empire by chalmers johnson. a very interesting and well researched look at current u.s. foreign policy and militarism. a good read.

also here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1550366.stm

the following are all interesting as well:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/11/20011128-11.html

http://www.worldpress.org/specials/pp/front.htm

http://wsws.org/articles/2001/jan2001/oil-j03.shtml

http://www.muslimuzbekistan.com/eng/ennews/2003/10/ennews20102003.html

http://www.hindu.com/op/2005/05/03/stories/2005050300331700.htm

most of this at least gives creedance to the idea that the u.s. would want to be a major player in central asia. and why wouldn't it? that last article shows that things didn't go quite as they had been planned. it'll be interesting to see how things move from here. i dont' really know why it is so crazy to think that afghanistan was going to be invaded in 2001 with or without 9/11. facts seem to point to it and the u.s. certainly hasn't been shy about using force to further or protect economic interests in the past. call me crazy i guess.

 

[Se7en]

Until we get a better investigation I really don't think we need to underestimate the evil capabilities of Bin Laden. I just don't see how the government would take a one of a kind building like the WTC and be able to fool every engineer and expert into the thinking it was a plane crash when it really wasn't. highly unlikely in my mind.

i don't think anyone doubts that plans crashed into the wtc. some are suggesting that it took more than those crashes to actually make the building fall the way that it did.

 

[Se7en]

Naw, wanna make it as raw as possible without being dry.

i myself prefer phase to chorus but it really depends on the application. anyone ever find a subtle use for the flanger? most times i find that you really have to write the music FOR the flanger and make it a key player otherwise it just doesn't fit in well.

 

[80sU2isBest]

i myself prefer phase to chorus but it really depends on the application. anyone ever find a subtle use for the flanger? most times i find that you really have to write the music FOR the flanger and make it a key player otherwise it just doesn't fit in well.

Flanged drums for a couple of bars fading into "normal" drums usually has good effect.

 

[Se7en]

Flanged drums for a couple of bars fading into "normal" drums usually has good effect.

i was thinking specifically guitar, but you're absolutely right. have you been listening to blink182? the first song on their self-titled album does just that with the drums. also in the breakdown they miced the set with just one LD condenser in a long tall hallway and man does it sound awesome. i love that huge room sound.

 

[U2Girl1978]

It seems like an interesting theory. Our government likes to hide alot of shit that seems to be happening in the world. There was an article in one of my papers around here saying something about how oil is going to be gone within the next 10 yrs or so. I have to find this again so I can post it here.

 

[80sU2isBest]

i was thinking specifically guitar, but you're absolutely right. have you been listening to blink182? the first song on their self-titled album does just that with the drums. also in the breakdown they miced the set with just one LD condenser in a long tall hallway and man does it sound awesome. i love that huge room sound.

Actually, I've heard it a few places, but most recently in a song called "I Stand Alone" by John Wetton and Geoff Downes. I've even used that effect in a couple of my songs.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

this is stupid... building implosions are done from the bottom up, not from the top down. the towers clearly colapsed from the top down. it would have taken the greatest demolition team in the world months to take a building down like that... and gee... i do think someone might have seen the guys setting up dynamite. and call me crazy, but i certainly think an explosion the size we saw when the planes hit juuuuust might have set off the pre-placed charges. i'm not a fire genious or anything, but i can't imagine that TNT and massive fire balls mix well.

that's the south tower... it clearly did not fall straight down... you can see the angle as the top of the towe breaks off, crushing the floors beneath.

this entire conversation is ludacris and shows a complete disrespect for the victims that people actually consider this bullshit to be truth.

 

[Se7en]

this entire conversation is ludacris and shows a complete disrespect for the victims that people actually consider this bullshit to be truth.

i think that because it appears the government took advantage of the tragedy to further its middle/central asian goals makes people think there is more here than meets the eye. i for one am skeptical about the conspiracy theories, but i don't doubt for a second that the dept. of defense's eyes lit up the second this happened. does that make me somehow less respectful of the victims? i'd like you to point out how. are we all less respectful of the victims of pearl harbor because we know that the government had foreknowledge of the incident?

 

[diamond]

check this out:

http://www.loosechange911.com/

 

[INDY500]

Everybody knows the true mastermind behind 9/11.

Please tell me some of you people aren't serious.

 

[sharky]

check this out:

Don't waste your time. I've watched pieces of it and have no idea why anyone would believe that. Everything is twisted to try and make it fit their conspiracy theory.

Try reading this great piece by Popular Mechanics, a well-known publication that uses logic, science and physics to debunk many of these stupid theories.
Link here

I'm not going to say the government isn't hiding anything about the attacks that day, but these conspiracy theories are just stupid. The government didn't need to blow up buildings to go to war with Iraq, they just needed to make up facts to make us feel vulnerable, which is exactly what they did anyway.

 

[A_Wanderer]

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

 

[AchtungBono]

Ok they're absolutely right.

Israel planned the 9/11 attack together with the United States because we were tired of seeing those huge looming towers in Manhattan and we decided to tear it down in order to make room for the new offices of the Israeli embassy.

Because Jews don't like to work hard, and we wanted to save money on explosives, we hired 19 regular men (we purposely chose muslims because we know they're expendable) and asked them to crash the planes into the buildings and bring them down.

Our good friend Osama Bin-Laden was good enough to provide the workers and them getting killed on the job was an added bonus because it saved us money on salaries - isn't that COOL??

The pentagon and pennsylvania planes were brought down just for the hell of it....it was so much fun.....WHEEEEE!!!!

So there you have it, the entire story we've been covering up for five years.

*whispers*

SSSShhh.....you didn't hear it from me....

+++++++++++++

You know, I'm reading this thread, shaking my head and I don't know whether to laugh or cry.....

All I can say is: People are absolutely INSANE to believe that 9/11 was something other than the worst act of terrorism in the history of the world. These conspiracy websites are an insult to human intelligence and a defaming of each and every victim.

3,000 men, women and children died in 3 different locations on that day. The crime was committed by 19 mass murderers who are at this moment suffering all the torments of hell, sent by the head murderer Bin Laden who will also be burning in hell very soon.

I believe that the people who support the so-called conspiracy theories are the same type of people who deny the Holocaust ever happened. I guess that they find it so totally hard to believe that such a crime of epic proportions could have actually happened they HAVE to resort to fantasy.

These conspiracy websites are an insult to human intelligence and a blatant defamation of each and every victim.

 

[Harry Vest]

"These conspiracy websites are an insult to human intelligence and a blatant defamation of each and every victim"

Why???

Just because people are questioning the governments "Official" version of things - this is what you call an "insult to human intelligence". I agree there are some websites that seem way too out there but there are some that have gathered all the facts and timelines and make a good case that things are NOT what they seem. Personally I don't give a shit either way - I listened to my gut that day and I'll listen to my gut now - something happened that day that was pre-planned and diabolical and we have YET to see the full repercussions.

P.S. I suppose you think JFK was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald and that no one else was involved.

If you answered YES to that then here's a question for you...
If Lee Harvey Oswald indeed acted alone then why would Jack Ruby (who hated the Kennedy's and was connected to the mob) risk everything to KILL a man who had just killed someone he hated??????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[sharky]

Harry -- I agree that we shouldn't just accept what the government shovels us as the truth. That being said, when you question it and look at the facts, how can you say it was an inside job? How can you say the government just ran in and wired the building for explosives or because there wasn't a cookie cutter outline of a plane in the wall of the Pentagon that there was no plane? You can't take the facts and science of the case and then just totally disregard them to suit your agenda.

 

[maycocksean]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

People (which make up the Government) are just not smooth enough to pull off the kind of masterminded conspiracies that are suggested here. We're far too clumsy and our mouths far too big. Even the terrorists had to try twice and were only 75% successful on the second try.

This kind of stuff is great for movies, but not for real life.

 

[Chizip]

If you answered YES to that then here's a question for you...
If Lee Harvey Oswald indeed acted alone then why would Jack Ruby (who hated the Kennedy's and was connected to the mob) risk everything to KILL a man who had just killed someone he hated??????????????????????????????????????????????????

umm where did you see that he hated kennedy?

Rabbi Silverman says, "He was a very volatile, a very emotional, unbalanced person. He thought he was doing the right thing [when he shot Oswald]. He loved Kennedy." "I hope I killed the son of a bitch," Ruby said immediately afterwards to the Dallas police who arrested him. "It will save you guys a lot of trouble." He told Assistant DA Bill Alexander, "Well, you guys couldn't do it. Someone had to do it. That son of a bitch killed my President."

 

[Chizip]

btw this is pretty funny

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

 

[AchtungBono]

"These conspiracy websites are an insult to human intelligence and a blatant defamation of each and every victim"

Why???

Just because people are questioning the governments "Official" version of things - this is what you call an "insult to human intelligence". I agree there are some websites that seem way too out there but there are some that have gathered all the facts and timelines and make a good case that things are NOT what they seem. Personally I don't give a shit either way - I listened to my gut that day and I'll listen to my gut now - something happened that day that was pre-planned and diabolical and we have YET to see the full repercussions.

P.S. I suppose you think JFK was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald and that no one else was involved.

If you answered YES to that then here's a question for you...
If Lee Harvey Oswald indeed acted alone then why would Jack Ruby (who hated the Kennedy's and was connected to the mob) risk everything to KILL a man who had just killed someone he hated??????????????????????????????????????????????????

*dumbfounded*

"The government's official version of things"....what do you mean by that? there is no official or unofficial version - there are only the FACTS, which are that two airplanes crashed into the world trade center at separate times, another plane crashed into the Pentagon and another plane was brought down in Shanksville instead of the White House.

I don't get it? Why would you doubt it? Were you not glued to your TV that day (as most of the people on this board probably were)?

They say "seeing is believing"....I saw it happen live on TV so therefore I believe it - to believe anything else is totally CRAZY!

OF COURSE JFK was shot by only one gunman - I don't need to learn my history from Oliver Stone, thank you very much.

btw - this reply isn't meant as a personal dig at you.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I think that there are conspiracies, but they are not the biggest events of the times, those get too much scrutiny and require too many people / too much effort.

 

[maycocksean]

I think that there are conspiracies, but they are not the biggest events of the times, those get too much scrutiny and require too many people / too much effort.

I agree.

 

[Harry Vest]

I'm not saying I agree with ALL the conspiracy theories of 911.
Not at all.
I'd even go as far as saying that it was Arab terrorists who flew the airplanes. I'm not buying into flying pods hitting the towers and missiles hitting the pentagon (although the pentagon stuff is slightly suspicious). I would go as far as saying that George W. Bush had no idea what was going on. I do believe Cheney and Rumsfeld knew a terrorist attack was coming and couldn't wait because it would give them precisely the excuse they needed to attack Iraq. As far as the demolition of the buildings go I'm just not sure - I'm not an expert but from the evidence I've read I tend to come out on the side of YES - there were explosives inside the bulidings (this is from the FIREMEN WHO WERE INSIDE THE BUILDINGS THAT MORNING!!!). The real question is WHO planted the explosives and why??? What about all the stock options on the airlines??? What about the Bin Laden's??? It's all too "co-incidental" to be coincidence. C'mon. I know there are "nuts" out there with all kinds of theories but you have to admit that there is more than meets the eye here. As far as the snide remark about Oliver Stone pertaining to the assasination of JFK - if it wasn't such a stupid comment I would laugh. Thousands of people have been researching the JFK assasination long before Oliver Stone made a movie. See the film " The Men Who Killed Kennedy" there is visual evidence of two mysterious figures in the grassy knoll as well as about a dozen witnesses who saw the cop "badgeman" and a "railway worker" acting suspiciously in the grassy knoll. All one must do is watch the zapruder film - it clearly shows Kennedy was hit from the front/side and not the back. Oh well, it seems like many of you out there have been conditioned by the Art Bell/X-Files 90's to laugh at the word "Conspiracy". I guess all that hype really did work.

 

[sharky]

The stock options story was debunked -- any evidence presented about that is from the early days after the attack. And even a little research in demolition will turn up just how involved an explosives set-up is, not only in terms of man power but also in terms of preparation. There is no way you can set up explosives to take down a building like that without having people notice the work you are doing. It's not like these floors were empty at night. Those buildings were constantly in motion with people night and day.

 

[Scarletwine]

I don't buy the conspiracy theories, but I've heard a lot about the main point of this article. I do think that a real investigation should be held if for no other reason to clarify the day and help prevent the same mistakes from being made again.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14566.htm

What we know and don’t know about 9/11

Paul Craig Roberts

...
I will begin by stating what we know to be a solid incontrovertible scientific fact.

We know that it is strictly impossible for any building, much less steel columned buildings, to “pancake” at free fall speed. Therefore, it is a non-controversial fact that the official explanation of the collapse of the WTC buildings is false.

We also know for a fact that the Air Force somehow inexplicably failed to intercept the alleged hijacked airliners despite the fact that the Air Force can launch jet fighters to 29,000 feet in 2.5 minutes. We also know that the two co-chairmen of the 9/11 Commission have just written a book that reveals that the US military lied to the Commission about its failure to intercept the hijacked airliners.

There are various explanations for this second fact. The military could have lied to cover up complicity or to cover-up its incompetence. However, no investigation has been made to ascertain the true explanation for the failure.

This leaves us with the incontrovertible fact that buildings cannot “pancake” at free fall speeds.

The only explanation known to science for the free fall collapse of a building, especially into its own footprint, is engineered demolition, which removes the supports for each floor of the building at split second intervals so that the debris from above meets no resistance on its fall. To call this explanation a “conspiracy theory” is to display the utmost total ignorance. Any physicist or engineer who maintains that buildings can “pancake” at free fall speed has obviously been bought and paid for or is a total incompetent fool.

The WTC buildings are known to have collapsed at free fall speed into their own footprints.

This fact does not tell us who is responsible or what purpose was served.

Since the damning incontrovertible fact has not been investigated, speculation and “conspiracy theories” have filled the void. Some of the speculation is based on circumstantial evidence and is plausible. Other of the speculation is untenable, and it is used to protect the official explanation by branding all skeptics “conspiracy theorists.” I would not be surprised if some of the most far-out “conspiracy theories” consist, in fact, of disinformation put out by elements in the government to discredit all skeptics. But I do not know this to be the case.
...

 

[sharky]

Interesting article, Scarletwine, but this excerpt from it brings me back to my argument that you can't spin actual scientific fact for your own belief.

"The Popular Mechanics article and the TV documentary are obviously false since they both endorse the official explanation that the WTC buildings “pancaked” at free fall speed, an obvious scientific impossibility. Whether the false reporting by Popular Mechanics and television are due to incompetence or to complicity in a government cover-up, I do not know."

So if I agree with what the government has said [relatively] and I agree with people that agree with the government, then I am wrong? That doesn't make any sense.

And then he mentions this:

"According to reports, the BBC has found 6 of the alleged suicide hijackers alive and well in their home countries. I do not know if the report is true, but I do know that the report has been ignored and there has been no investigation. Both the US government and the US media have turned a blind eye. We have no way of knowing if Atta and his named accomplices hijacked the planes, or, if they did, whether they were dupes of intelligent services that pretended to be a terrorist cell and organized the cover for the engineered demolition."

First of all, some of the hijackers had common Arabic names. Just because a hijacker is named Joe Smith and there is a Joe Smith that lives next door doesn't mean your neighbor is a terrorist who survived a suicide mission. As for investigating those reports, all those stories came in the initial weeks of the attacks and further investigation proved them to be false.

And sorry, but is this guy a building engineer? A demolition expert? Then I'm just going to take his whole theory with a grain of salt.

 

[shart1780]

This is so, so hilarious. Good Lord these conspiracy theories are so bogus. Like that funny site said, how would the government get all the airline employees, firefighters, arab terrorists and Muslims, police, news anchors, demolitionists etc. etc. to keep this a secret? It's just so ludricrous it's baffling to me how anyone could believe this!