For You Separation of Church & State Lovers

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You know, I DO love separation of church and state.

Not only does it ensure that I don't have to be any particular faith unless I really want to be, but it gives me the opportunity to read wacky news articles. ;)

Seriously, though. This isn't really a separation of church and state issue--perhaps a case of P.C. run amok, but would we appreciate it if a Wiccan dressed up in a dopey costume of Christ or the Virgin Mary and poked fun at Christmas and Easter? I doubt it.
 
Yeah, I agree, this has nothing to do with separation of church and state. It's just a community school board deciding they don't want to make fun of people.

Now, I wonder about the mental health of Wiccans who would be offended by this, but whatever.
 
paxetaurora said:
Seriously, though. This isn't really a separation of church and state issue--perhaps a case of P.C. run amok, but would we appreciate it if a Wiccan dressed up in a dopey costume of Christ or the Virgin Mary and poked fun at Christmas and Easter? I doubt it.

How is it not church & state? The school obviously recognizes that Wicca is a religion and that Holloween utilizes symbols related to witches.

We easily dismiss the representation of Wicca in a school, but will scream bloody murder if the Ten Commandments are found on public property. We have no problem censoring students from mentioning Jesus Christ in a commencement address.

Same crap as with the LA City council. Eliminate a small cross on the City Seal, but leave the imposing figure of the godess Pomona.
 
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I think it's the school district trying to be cheap so they don't have to pay for classroom parties.

Frankly, I don't think this is healthy. I learned more about different religions in my Catholic high school without the PC restrictions than I did in the public school system. Instead of saying no because of the Wiccans, why can't teachers teach about the Wiccan faith and the origins of Halloween. What's wrong with that?
 
sharky said:
Frankly, I don't think this is healthy. I learned more about different religions in my Catholic high school without the PC restrictions than I did in the public school system. Instead of saying no because of the Wiccans, why can't teachers teach about the Wiccan faith and the origins of Halloween. What's wrong with that?

So you would allow schools to teach religion? Can the schools pick and choose, or should each and every religion be represented?
 
I just have a question about the title of this thread for nbcrusader. You mean you aren't?
 
nbcrusader said:


School Says Halloween Disrespectful to Witches




At least someone is looking out for Ann Coulter.



coulter.jpg
 
sharky said:
I think it's the school district trying to be cheap so they don't have to pay for classroom parties.

Frankly, I don't think this is healthy. I learned more about different religions in my Catholic high school without the PC restrictions than I did in the public school system.

I did too, sharky...I learned only about christianity in the public schools...:eyebrow: :huh:



*edited to more accurately reflect what the hell I was trying to say!

*edited again because I can't spell! :mad:
 
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I love the First Amendment.

Let's repeat together:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof......"
 
nbcrusader said:
I love the First Amendment.

Let's repeat together:


prohibiting the free exercise thereof......"



Have you ever had the government come into your church and tell them what or how to administer to your fellow congregates?
 
nbcrusader said:
So you would allow schools to teach religion? Can the schools pick and choose, or should each and every religion be represented?

All religions. It should be part of geography or sociology or its own world religions class. Religion is a major way in which people define themselves and their beliefs and you can easily break it down into poli-social beliefs. Or incorporate it into other classes. I had a interesting class called Death and Dying that dealt with the legal issues of death, the cycle of mourning and how other religions view death, Heaven, Hell, etc.
 
I agree with Pax this is nothing but someone being over PC.

Has anyone considered the fact that halloween makes fun of everyone? I see people dressed as priest, nuns, withches, politicians, dogs, cats, monsters, superheros, etc. Some dress as someone they admire others to mock...no one's safe it's freaking Halloween!

This is just a weak ass excuse. But people all over have been trying to ban halloween ever since I can remember except usually it's conservative Christians.
 
nbcrusader said:
I love the First Amendment.

Let's repeat together:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof......"

Several framers of the actual document commented on it in various letters, articles, books, etc. Thomas Jefferson, for example, is quite blunt in saying the very phrase you quote is "building a wall of separation between church and State." A sample taken from this site:


Thomas Jefferson interpreted the 1st Amendment in his famous letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in January 1, 1802:


"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."

Some Religious activists try to extricate the concept of separation between church and State by claiming that those words do not occur in the Constitution. Indeed they do not, but neither does it exactly say "freedom of religion," yet the First Amendment implies both.

As Thomas Jefferson wrote in his Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom:


"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."

James Madison, perhaps the greatest supporter for separation of church and State, and whom many refer to as the father of the Constitution, also held similar views which he expressed in his letter to Edward Livingston, 10 July 1822:


"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
This is just a weak ass excuse. But people all over have been trying to ban halloween ever since I can remember except usually it's conservative Christians.

I'm going to play conspiracy theorist.... Maybe it IS a conservative christian plot to ban halloween. :ohmy: It's perfect...no one thinks of that angle!
 
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indra said:


I'm going to play conspiracy theorist.... Maybe it IS a conservative christian plot to ban halloween. :ohmy: It's perfect...no one thinks of that angle!

They're still blaming the witches...

let's see if they float!:wink:
 
indra said:
Several framers of the actual document commented on it in various letters, articles, books, etc. Thomas Jefferson, for example, is quite blunt in saying the very phrase you quote is "building a wall of separation between church and State." A sample taken from this site:

Take the body of Jefferson's works and you may get a different conclusion. We've had other threads review this point in greater detail.

I guess it just doesn't mean what is says....
 
deep said:
Have you ever had the government come into your church and tell them what or how to administer to your fellow congregates?

In the US, the government is far more likely to tell a church how it can be run than a church tell the government how it can be run.
 
nbcrusader said:


In the US, the government is far more likely to tell a church how it can be run than a church tell the government how it can be run.

Good.
 
nbcrusader said:
Is that true, or just perception fueled by partisianship?

It's true.

I went to Catholic schools as well, and we had a mandatory "world religions" course taught, mandated by all the Catholic school boards. I enjoyed it a lot.
 
I don't think it's too far off, really. I can tick off a long list of pushes for legislation that are meant to cater only to very specific segments of the religious public. I don't even think I need to tick off a list.

You can call this partisan bullshit if you want, but I don't think it can be argued that very specific religious groups have pushed, and are pushing, for legislation or court decisions tailored to narrow interest groups based on religion. Hell, most of them, in fact, are very proud of it and wouldn't deny it.
 
paxetaurora said:
LOL!!!

Seems to me we have lots of churches that are, very successfully, telling the government how it should be run.

Which is exactly what I meant by "Good." (Couldn't elaborate then since I realised it was getting dark out and I still had beasts to feed!)

So what I should have typed was: Good. Since so many churches (or members thereof) seem to be so dead set about incorporating their agenda in the government, it's just fair that the government should impose rules on churches.:D
 
indra said:
Since so many churches (or members thereof) seem to be so dead set about incorporating their agenda in the government,

So constituents who also happen to be members of churches should not have their views respected, unlike others??

indra said:
it's just fair that the government should impose rules on churches.:D

Nice to see such a selective reading of the First Amendment.
 
Hey, I figure if the churchies can do it, why can't I? :wink:


Anyone else see the gorgeous irony in my choice of favorite bands (well, their name anyway)?
 
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