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BrownEyedBoy said:


I really wish human rights wouldn't be such an obstacle for harsh punishments. It would give everybody a safer enviornment to live in.


I wonder if we live on the same planet.

Let's abolish human rights. You in the developing world would probably really love when we stepped in, steam rolled all over you, made you our colonial slaves and sent you to banana plantations so we can buy them at Walmart for 2 cents a pound.

I can't believe how short sighted you are about what human rights really mean.
 
anitram said:


I wonder if we live on the same planet.

Let's abolish human rights. You in the developing world would probably really love when we stepped in, steam rolled all over you, made you our colonial slaves and sent you to banana plantations so we can buy them at Walmart for 2 cents a pound.

I can't believe how short sighted you are about what human rights really mean.

I never said abolish human rights. I said that they shouldn't be an obstacle for justice as they usually are. I'm sick and tired of having innocent civillians humilliated, raped, beat and murdered while the criminals are protected and confined into a "humane" jail cell. Screw that.

Bring on the harsh punishments. Off with their heads.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:


I never said abolish human rights. I said that they shouldn't be an obstacle for justice as they usually are. I'm sick and tired of having innocent civillians humilliated, raped, beat and murdered while the criminals are protected and confined into a "humane" jail cell. Screw that.

Bring on the harsh punishments. Off with their heads.

Your ignorance is shining through. Get learned before you come to an opinion.
 
I see it more as a gut reaction, the same that people have to paedophiles and rapists, the punishment people want to see is disproportionate to the terrible crime that they commit. If we succumb to such urges then wheres the end? Do we make it a crime for girls who embarress their families?

I would be interested if a reversable coma could be induced as punishment long term; if it is even feesible or could be done without serious brain damage to get the same effect in a reversable manner.
 
Angela Harlem said:


Your ignorance is shining through. Get learned before you come to an opinion.

How? How is it "shining"? Because it disgusts me to see criminals who disrespected innocent people´s integrity being treated with respect themselves? How is that fair?
 
BrownEyedBoy said:


How? How is it "shining"? Because it disgusts me to see criminals who disrespected innocent people´s integrity being treated with respect themselves? How is that fair?

For the same reasons that have been posted by Angela, Axver, Anitram, and myself... You know, the ones you chose to ignore.:|
 
We have learned from the past and value people more than in the middle ages.

Now we believe in rehabilitation, and don't want to sink to the level of criminals.

And as said before, brutal punishment doesn't stop crime.
Old people here in Germany also come with the argument, under Hitler Germany was such a safe place.
Like your country under the dictatorship. But there it is, under a dictatorship.

We have overcome this stupid time, and learned that everybody has to be treated with some respect.

Of course it's shit when people get robbed, and you want some punishment. But cutting their hands off doesn't help.
No one becomes a burglar out of fun, but because they are desperately trying to survive and don't see another possiblity.
So we have to show them another perspective, and give them a chance to do better in future.
That is reached by rehablitation. Of course, not always, but nothing is perfect.

And if rehabilitation isn't enough, we lock people away for the rest of their life.
But we stopped to kill other people.
 
I disagree. There is no excuse for being a criminal.

I´m really glad you guys have never had a criminal hurt you or one of your loved ones because then you would stop being so benign with them.
 
Vincent Vega said:
We have learned from the past and value people more than in the middle ages.

Now we believe in rehabilitation, and don't want to sink to the level of criminals.

And as said before, brutal punishment doesn't stop crime.
Old people here in Germany also come with the argument, under Hitler Germany was such a safe place.
Like your country under the dictatorship. But there it is, under a dictatorship.

We have overcome this stupid time, and learned that everybody has to be treated with some respect.

Of course it's shit when people get robbed, and you want some punishment. But cutting their hands off doesn't help.
No one becomes a burglar out of fun, but because they are desperately trying to survive and don't see another possiblity.
So we have to show them another perspective, and give them a chance to do better in future.
That is reached by rehablitation. Of course, not always, but nothing is perfect.

And if rehabilitation isn't enough, we lock people away for the rest of their life.
But we stopped to kill other people.

Did you ever watch the show 30 days by Morgan Spearlock. He went to Prison for 30 days. Towards the end, one of the men is released but ends up back in prison, where is the rehabilitiation?? Once some one murders another human being there are non-human. When a person executes the murderer it's like putting an animal down. I doubt it's that painful unlike his/her vicitims went through.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:
I disagree. There is no excuse for being a criminal.

You've never broken any law?


BrownEyedBoy said:

I´m really glad you guys have never had a criminal hurt you or one of your loved ones because then you would stop being so benign with them.

Horrible, horrible assumption. Do you really want to share lists? I doubt it.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:

I´m really glad you guys have never had a criminal hurt you or one of your loved ones because then you would stop being so benign with them.

I'm glad you're so quick to make assumptions about people you don't know :rolleyes:

I won't even go into what criminals have done to hurt our family (my mom's side) because honestly I don't see how it's relevant. Lives have been destroyed by criminals, and we've even had criminals in our family.

There is no logical reason for capital punishment. It does not deter crime, it is more expensive, it takes money/time/resources/focus off of more important issues, and it sometimes punishes people who never even committed the crime. Setting religion, morals, and personal experiences aside, the death penalty is still stupid.

If revenge means THAT much to you, then go pick a fight with the criminal and pull the trigger yourself. My votes and tax dollars should be used on actual issues.
 
Justin24 said:


Did you ever watch the show 30 days by Morgan Spearlock. He went to Prison for 30 days. Towards the end, one of the men is released but ends up back in prison, where is the rehabilitiation??

One example means no rehabilitation?

Justin24 said:


Once some one murders another human being there are non-human. When a person executes the murderer it's like putting an animal down. I doubt it's that painful unlike his/her vicitims went through.

You just defended a murderer a few pages back, is he no longer human? If you're framed are you no longer human?
 
Thats why I keep stressing that we have DNA and other methods to prove one GUILT
 
Justin24 said:
Thats why I keep stressing that we have DNA and other methods to prove one GUILT

Ever watched The Life of David Gale? :wink:

Anyway, DNA is not always foolproof. In fact, just saying "DNA evidence" really means nothing. Some DNA yields more specific results than others. Some DNA samples are too degraded for 100% identification. There is room for human error with any form of testing.

Besides, GUILT is not and never has been a burden of proof. It's proof beyond reasonable doubt. This burden is not 100% GUILT. If you're going to use DNA evidence and GUILT for your argument, than I recommend you also figure out a way for the court system to overhaul the burden of proof necessary to convict for first degree murder.
 
Vincent Vega said:
We have learned from the past and value people more than in the middle ages.

Now we believe in rehabilitation, and don't want to sink to the level of criminals.

And as said before, brutal punishment doesn't stop crime.
Old people here in Germany also come with the argument, under Hitler Germany was such a safe place.
Like your country under the dictatorship. But there it is, under a dictatorship.

We have overcome this stupid time, and learned that everybody has to be treated with some respect.

Of course it's shit when people get robbed, and you want some punishment. But cutting their hands off doesn't help.
No one becomes a burglar out of fun, but because they are desperately trying to survive and don't see another possiblity.
So we have to show them another perspective, and give them a chance to do better in future.
That is reached by rehablitation. Of course, not always, but nothing is perfect.

And if rehabilitation isn't enough, we lock people away for the rest of their life.
But we stopped to kill other people.


"We have overcome this stupid time"? You mean that stupid time when there weren´t as many crimes there are now that we so intelligently believe in "rehabilitation"?

I don´t know about you but I much prefer this "stupid time" when there weren´t any crimes and the method for fighting crime actually worked.

I´m glad you have life and posessions to spare so that you can relax and feel like you can be robbed or murdered and still be so nonchalant about it that you´ll say "well, let´s be humane about it and rehabilitate the guy in prison".
 
BrownEyedBoy said:
I disagree. There is no excuse for being a criminal.

I´m really glad you guys have never had a criminal hurt you or one of your loved ones because then you would stop being so benign with them.

you really mean we are so spoiled and didn't ever experienced any criminal behaviour?
 
So what should we do then, give me some of your ideas, besides sticking them in a hole forever???Isn't that cruel and unusal punishment? Isn't it torture which you are against?
 
Justin24 said:


Did you ever watch the show 30 days by Morgan Spearlock. He went to Prison for 30 days. Towards the end, one of the men is released but ends up back in prison, where is the rehabilitiation?? Once some one murders another human being there are non-human. When a person executes the murderer it's like putting an animal down. I doubt it's that painful unlike his/her vicitims went through.


Vincent Vega said:

That is reached by rehablitation. Of course, not always, but nothing is perfect.

My words have a meaning :)
 
Justin24 said:
So what should we do then, give me some of your ideas, besides sticking them in a hole forever???Isn't that cruel and unusal punishment? Isn't it torture which you are against?

Where do you get this? You think death is better than life in prison? I thought you didn't care about their well being?

Look, there is no 100% way of knowing, so until then how can there be an absolute punishment? ANSWER THAT? Answer without an emotional response...
 
BrownEyedBoy said:



"We have overcome this stupid time"? You mean that stupid time when there weren´t as many crimes there are now that we so intelligently believe in "rehabilitation"?

I don´t know about you but I much prefer this "stupid time" when there weren´t any crimes and the method for fighting crime actually worked.

I´m glad you have life and posessions to spare so that you can relax and feel like you can be robbed or murdered and still be so nonchalant about it that you´ll say "well, let´s be humane about it and rehabilitate the guy in prison".

Why do you continue to ignore people's posts? You think living under Hitler would have been cool? Living under a dictatorship forcing such environments where feeding your children meant having to commit a crime punishable by losing a hand...this is what you want? Come on, think!!!
 
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BrownEyedBoy said:



"We have overcome this stupid time"? You mean that stupid time when there weren´t as many crimes there are now that we so intelligently believe in "rehabilitation"?

I don´t know about you but I much prefer this "stupid time" when there weren´t any crimes and the method for fighting crime actually worked.

I´m glad you have life and posessions to spare so that you can relax and feel like you can be robbed or murdered and still be so nonchalant about it that you´ll say "well, let´s be humane about it and rehabilitate the guy in prison".

The time I was speaking of led to the killing of between 50 to 60 million people.

Have fun there.

Should I want him to get murdered?
Of course I would be furious, of course I would demand some punishment, of course I want my things back, of course I don't want it to ever happen again.

But don't you see there are other ways to punish people?
Is killing, or cutting hands off, all you can think of as punishment?
He stole material, you want his hand?

And your remark about putting in a hole.
Where did I speak of a hole?
In Germany prisons are everything but a inhumane hole, and in other western countries as well.
And I don't want 'em to end up in a hole.
 
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If it means anything, my friend was robbed at gunpoint when she lived in Honduras and you bet she'd choose that over dictatorship any day. :shrug:
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Why do you continue to ignore people's posts? You think living under Hitler would have been cool? Living under a dictatorship forcing such environments where feeding your children meant having to commit a crime punishable by losing a hand...this is what you want? Come on, think!!!

You can´t honestly believe that I was suggesting to adopt the ENTIRE M.O. of this government. That´s absurd.

All I´m suggesting is to ONLY adopt their harsh punishment laws, which evidently worked.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:

All I´m suggesting is to ONLY adopt their harsh punishment laws, which evidently worked.

It doesn't work now and it's never worked here. Capital punishment does not deter murder.

What worked was instilling fear by threatening to inflict or inflicting torture.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:


You can´t honestly believe that I was suggesting to adopt the ENTIRE M.O. of this government. That´s absurd.

All I´m suggesting is to ONLY adopt their harsh punishment laws, which evidently worked.

They go hand in hand, look at history. You are fooling yourself to think they worked.

Just try and take a look at other factors. Take a look at the economic divides in the last 50 years, technology over the 50 years, population growths, etc...

My grandparents lived in less crime 50 years ago and guess what, it wasn't due to hands being chopped off.

Read something...
 
Then what was it? What was the reason behind it? Whatever it was, let´s do it.

I´m all for eliminating crime by ANY means necessary. I don´t see how anyone besides a criminal would not want that.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:
Then what was it? What was the reason behind it? Whatever it was, let´s do it.

I´m all for eliminating crime by ANY means necessary. I don´t see how anyone besides a criminal would not want that.

What was what?

Like I said, take a look at the population growths, economic divides, education, etc...

But you'll never eliminate crime, because you can't eliminate greed.

You were sold a lie, a nostalgic lie.

Cain killed his brother, was it because the punishment was too soft?
 
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