Fellow Christians: My girlfriend and I need your help.

[pax]

For heaven's sake (literally!), we are talking about life and death here! Is it totally unthinkable that maybe a combination of prayer and spiritual effort, and the best experience and knowledge of medicine and psychology, is what would be best for your girlfriend?!

What if she attempts suicide? If your girlfriend swallowed a bottle of Tylenol, would you pray over her or would you call 911? Would you cut her down, or stand around for a while to see if an angel might take care of it?

God wants us to take care of each other. God has provided some among us with the skills to help us do precisely that. Don't refuse God's help, whether that comes in the form of prayer, Scripture, or other people, carefully trained in treating exactly what ails your girlfriend.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Re: I've never been able to figure this out.

And why is it then only weak Christians, or those with SERIOUS emotional problems somehow become "possessed"?

Shart, if you refuse to seek professional help for this child, then get ready for a dead girlfriend. I hate to be blunt, but that's what may happen. Blame it on whomever you like, but she's in serious emotional trouble. Neither of you are prepared to handle this alone, Bible and big, bad boyfriend notwithstanding.

Martha, if you had read this entire thread, you would see that there's not a Christian in this thread that believes Christians can be possessed. Most of Christendom believes that the Holy Spirit within a Christian would not allow it.

If you're not going to pray for him, then don't. But you don't have to abuse him, especially since he didn't ask for your help to begin with.

 

[-macphisto-]

I cant help but post, because I sincerely disagree on alot that has been written. I dont know this girl, or if maybe she just needs proffesional help, or if she really had a bad spirit possess her(demon), I dont know that, but I do know that unclean spirits and the devil does exist. I have seen it many times, to non christians and christians. I went on a 2 year mission, and I have seen many, many times, and it is real, you feel the presence, and it is very scary. And people would ask us all the time to come in and cast out the evil spirits. Im not going to go into great detail or go into great debates over beliefs of the bible, but it doesnt matter if your christian or not, it is if you invite these evil spirits or the devil to be around you, maybe through your actions, thoguhts etc.. Just because your christian doesnt meen your saved automatically, or always clean, or cant be persuaded by the devil, if anything he works on us more. Geez theres so much i want to say, because Ive seen it, but Im just going to leave it at that, and I will pray for her!

 

[anitram]

According to your post, she was having suicidal thoughts.

You want to treat this with prayer, and have certain Christian views which have lead you to that conclusion.

Perhaps you should remove yourself from this scenario and allow people who are not so gung-ho fundamentalist about this issue to help her. Her family, her friends, where are they? Frankly, it sounds to me that you want your way or the highway, so perhaps it's high time somebody else who is more objective about this situation and does not have such deep biases steps in and tries to get her some real help.

Maybe I really don't have faith and maybe I'm really not a Christian, because there is no way on this world I would allow somebody I loved, who was suicidal, to potentially slide down the path of utter destruction without doing everything in my power to get them the best combination of help possible. Could be I should find myself a new religion.

 

[XHendrix24]

Shart, at the very least, get some kind of help from someone. Be it a pastor or a Christian counselor, at least get someone's help. Do not go about this alone, with just you and your girlfriend.

That being said, you two will be in my prayers.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Just because your christian doesnt meen your saved automatically, or always clean, or cant be persuaded by the devil, if anything he works on us more. Geez theres so much i want to say, because Ive seen it, but Im just going to leave it at that, and I will pray for her!

Actually, being a Christian does mean you're saved, and clean. The Bible says that Christians are washed clean. I agree with you that demons can and will oppress Christians. But if you're saying that demons can take residence in a Christian and possess her, I disagree strongly.

 

[u2bonogirl]

I cant help but post, because I sincerely disagree on alot that has been written. I dont know this girl, or if maybe she just needs proffesional help, or if she really had a bad spirit possess her(demon), I dont know that, but I do know that unclean spirits and the devil does exist. I have seen it many times, to non christians and christians. I went on a 2 year mission, and I have seen many, many times, and it is real, you feel the presence, and it is very scary. And people would ask us all the time to come in and cast out the evil spirits. Im not going to go into great detail or go into great debates over beliefs of the bible, but it doesnt matter if your christian or not, it is if you invite these evil spirits or the devil to be around you, maybe through your actions, thoguhts etc.. Just because your christian doesnt meen your saved automatically, or always clean, or cant be persuaded by the devil, if anything he works on us more. Geez theres so much i want to say, because Ive seen it, but Im just going to leave it at that, and I will pray for her!

from what Ive heard the devil is more interested in messing with people of faith anyway
In other words, I agree with you. Christians arent 'immune'
The devil is not on god's side. the opposite. they dont opperate by the same rules

 

[shart1780]

First of all, she's not suicidal anymore. She was when the demon, who I think tempted her when she was 14, came out of hiding.

Second, if you don't believe in demon possession I don't see how you can help in this thread.

 

[anitram]

Second, if you don't believe in demon possession I don't see how you can help in this thread.

Well then, I guess you'll be the only one left in here.

Good luck.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Shart, at the very least, get some kind of help from someone. Be it a pastor or a Christian counselor, at least get someone's help. Do not go about this alone, with just you and your girlfriend.

That being said, you two will be in my prayers.

I totally agree with this. And I would do it as soon as humanly possible.

One reason for this is that it will help determine what kind of problem you're dealing with here.

I usually don't believe in psych drugs, but if someone is a physical danger to herself or others, she may need it until the problem can be dealt with.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Re: I've never been able to figure this out.

Lets call a spade a spade. On the surface it sounds like a mental breakdown. Some believe that it's caused by a simple overload of stress, depression etc. Others may believe that it is either the possession by a demon, or the instrument by which a demon knocks someone down. Either way, she, mentally, has been broken down, by either a medical definition or a spiritual definition. And, either way, it was because of an overload of stress and depression. Some believe that makes the brain scream "TOO MUCH!!" and crash, some believe that it weakens them spiritually to the point where a demon is able to get in and do the crashing.

Either way shart, it starts with the depression. You need to not only look at what builds her back up again, but also what it is she was lacking regularly that got her there. Depression is a demon that needs continual attention, if it gets to the point she has gotten to, it's been ignored or looked over (maybe by her, maybe by others, maybe both) for some time.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Well then, I guess you'll be the only one left in here.

Good luck.

I think several of us believe in demon possession. I'm not going to say whether I think this is a case of that or not, because I don't know either one of them or the situation.

But I do believe in demon possession.

 

[-macphisto-]

from what Ive heard the devil is more interested in messing with people of faith anyway
In other words, I agree with you. Christians arent 'immune'
The devil is not on god's side. the opposite. they dont opperate by the same rules

Exactly

 

[shart1780]

Re: Re: I've never been able to figure this out.

Lets call a spade a spade. On the surface it sounds like a mental breakdown. Some believe that it's caused by a simple overload of stress, depression etc. Others may believe that it is either the possession by a demon, or the instrument by which a demon knocks someone down. Either way, she, mentally, has been broken down, by either a medical definition or a spiritual definition. And, either way, it was because of an overload of stress and depression. Some believe that makes the brain scream "TOO MUCH!!" and crash, some believe that it weakens them spiritually to the point where a demon is able to get in and do the crashing.

Either way shart, it starts with the depression. You need to not only look at what builds her back up again, but also what it is she was lacking regularly that got her there. Depression is a demon that needs continual attention, if it gets to the point she has gotten to, it's been ignored or looked over (maybe by her, maybe by others, maybe both) for some time.

I agree. Not only are we consentrating on keeping the demons far far away from her, but we'rre trying to build back up in her what God gave her when she turned to him, a peaceful mind and hope for the future. If the help of another christian is needed to do that then that's ok with me, but I see no point in secular psychology.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Re: Re: I've never been able to figure this out.

Lets call a spade a spade. On the surface it sounds like a mental breakdown. Some believe that it's caused by a simple overload of stress, depression etc. Others may believe that it is either the possession by a demon, or the instrument by which a demon knocks someone down. Either way, she, mentally, has been broken down, by either a medical definition or a spiritual definition. And, either way, it was because of an overload of stress and depression. Some believe that makes the brain scream "TOO MUCH!!" and crash, some believe that it weakens them spiritually to the point where a demon is able to get in and do the crashing.

Either way shart, it starts with the depression. You need to not only look at what builds her back up again, but also what it is she was lacking regularly that got her there. Depression is a demon that needs continual attention, if it gets to the point she has gotten to, it's been ignored or looked over (maybe by her, maybe by others, maybe both) for some time.

I agree with you.

 

[anitram]

Well, you just said that no Christian can be possessed, several times.

The girl is apparently a Christian.

So according to you, she cannot be possessed, correct?

Or am I misreading things? I honestly never really studied this in any of my theology classes in any depth.

 

[BVS]

Trust me you don't turn "unsuicidal" over night. If she's been wrestling with it for 4 years, it's going to take time. So for you to say she isn't suicidal anymore reinforces my thoughts that you are very young, inexperienced, and naive.

Just get help somewhere outside of the two of you. God can work through pyscologists, preachers, counselors, etc in amazing ways.

Take it from someone who fought with suicide for years.

 

[u2bonogirl]

Re: Re: Re: I've never been able to figure this out.

I agree. Not only are we consentrating on keeping the demons far far away from her, but we'rre trying to build back up in her what God gave her when she turned to him, a peaceful mind and hope for the future. If the help of another christian is needed to do that then that's ok with me, but I see no point in secular psychology.

thats why I suggested the help of a christian counselor instead of a secular one
From personal experience I actually benefitted from a christian one more than all the others I had been to before
She helped me see the root of my weaknesses and sought to help me confront stuff I didnt know was bothering me

 

[-macphisto-]

Actually, being a Christian does mean you're saved, and clean. The Bible says that Christians are washed clean. I agree with you that demons can and will oppress Christians. But if you're saying that demons can take residence in a Christian and possess her, I disagree strongly.

Man I wish I had your beliefs, Im christian, now Im going to go sin all I want, but who cares Im christian Im already saved. All I know is that these unclean spirits try to possess the body of christians and non christians, just as they did in the times of Jesus, when Jesus cast them out, they wanted a body. And Ive seen it happen to Christians, so Im not just making this up, Ive seen it.

 

[shart1780]

Well, you just said that no Christian can be possessed, several times.

The girl is apparently a Christian.

So according to you, she cannot be possessed, correct?

Or am I misreading things? I honestly never really studied this in any of my theology classes in any depth.

Yeah she's a christian. We prayed together as soon as all that stuff happened that night. She wasn't a christian when it happened though.

 

[martha]

What was she before it happened?

 

[Diemen]

Could you explain why you see no point in it? Because honestly it baffles me. And don't give me that "it doesn't say anything about it in the bible" bs. It doesn't say anything about surgery in the bible, should we stay away from that? Nothing about computers either - I guess we shouldn't be using them either.

Unless you have some legitimate explanation that you can produce, then it seems apparent that your aversion to secular psychology is completely nonsensical.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Well, you just said that no Christian can be possessed, several times.

The girl is apparently a Christian.

So according to you, she cannot be possessed, correct?

Or am I misreading things? I honestly never really studied this in any of my theology classes in any depth.

He siad he didn't think she was a Christian at the time. If that's the case, then certainly I believe there's a possibility she was possessed. I have a feeling that it doesn't happen as much anymore, but I believe it does happen.

However, if she was a Christian when this happened, then no, I don't believe she was possessed. She may be oppressed; you know - an external attack: demons gnawing at you, tempting you, telling you you're a no good bum and why don't you just kill yourself, telling you that you're worthless, etc. Demons are quite good at oppression.

 

[shart1780]

What was she before it happened?

I believe she was unsaved. A couple years ago we had prayed "the prayer" together, but I think since then she had really fallen away. It's hard for me to say for sure whether I believe a christian can be possessed or not, but I can tell you I'm pretty sure that she had fallen away from God.

 

[Diemen]

Don't you see, martha? The only problem is that a demon got her. It had nothing to do with her past, nothing to do with psychological problems, nothing to do with the arguing, nothing to do with anything. She was a Christian before, but since Christians can't be possessed, and since it is so obviously a demon that possessed her, the only logical explanation is that she must've not been a Christian just for the moment the demon possessed her. But of course she is now a Christian again.

Obviously.

 

[shart1780]

Could you explain why you see no point in it? Because honestly it baffles me. And don't give me that "it doesn't say anything about it in the bible" bs. It doesn't say anything about surgery in the bible, should we stay away from that? Nothing about computers either - I guess we shouldn't be using them either.

Unless you have some legitimate explanation that you can produce, then it seems apparent that your aversion to secular psychology is completely nonsensical.

The reason I'm saying that (as I stated before) is because the problem of the Devil and demon possession s strictly supernatural and cannot be diagnosed or cured scientifically. Psychology is the science of the mind. This has nothing to do with science, it's supernatural warfare.

 

[Diemen]

bullshit. You yourself said she had a troubled past with abuse. That has EVERYTHING to do with psychological well-being.


And if you honestly believe that this was nothing more than a demon possession with nothing psychological leading up to it, then I must side with BVS, you are young, inexperienced and naive in this matter and for the well-being of your girlfriend you owe it to her and to God that she receive proper care.

 

[martha]

Don't you see, martha? The only problem is that a demon got her. It had nothing to do with her past, nothing to do with psychological problems, nothing to do with the arguing, nothing to do with anything. She was a Christian before, but since Christians can't be possessed, and since it is so obviously a demon that possessed her, the only logical explanation is that she must've not been a Christian just for the moment the demon possessed her. But of course she is now a Christian again.

Obviously.

I see.

 

[shart1780]

bullshit. You yourself said she had a troubled past with abuse. That has EVERYTHING to do with psychological well-being.

I believe that God can heal her of any psychological damage she's accumulated over the years. God says that he will give her peace of mind, and I believe him. You can call me a fool for puting so mucg faith into God, but then I think you'd be calling every believer a fool.

 

[u2bonogirl]

lets not turn this into a pissing match, please guys?
Ive read that opression can appear as possession, if the person is weak or whatnot
Ive also read about this story in the bible where in the time of Paul when he was casting out demons, some people tried copying him and went about casting out demons themselves in the name of Jesus. The demon said I know of Jesus and Paul but I dont know you. then the demon attacked the men and left them bleeding
Sometimes is good to have somebody spiritually stronger than yourself around to help