Fear of recruiting christians

[dazzlingamy]

Ok, my mum who is also an atheist has a friend, who is quite christian. Now as i've said in the past, I don't mind if people are religious, I just don't want to talk about it with them, or have it shoved in my face (wearng the cross and thanking God doesn't constitute shoving it in my face for the nitpickers)

Now this woman, has been trying to get my mum to go to some of her christian meetings and mum has respectfully declined, as well, she isn't a believer, nor does she want to be one. Now my mum is in her middle 50's, lives alone (well did, until we moved back in) and lives a crazy stressful and rather lonely life. This woman has been getting increasingly forceful with her comments about mum's life and I feel preying on my mums insecurities (being alone) by making it seem like only welcoming jesus into her life will make her feel better.

Yesterday she left 3 msgs in the space of two hours on the answering machine telling mum she had something "really" important to tell her, and when mum got back she said she had popped in an the woman was there with a few of her friends and they tried to get mum to admit she needed jesus and go to church with them!! Mum was laughing, but I AM NOT. My mother is a strong woman, but i am scared that these people will prey on her weaknesses, and when i go overseas i won't be here to protect her from them. You may think its a harsh thing to say, but nothing good can come from this. I feel sick at their sly advances, trying to "recruit" my mum, and feel its totally against what they preach, about understanding and evertything. Why would you want to bully someone into your religion? What good would that do them to be coerced and made to feel shit about themselves in order to believe.

I understand if you want to spread "his" word, but i feel like these people are going about it all the wrong way, and I really want to say something to them, but don't want to get down and have some dirty slanging match, which im sure it will turn into, as im really REALLY pissed at this.

Why do some people do this? I don't understand the concept behind it at all.

 

[yolland]

What exactly are you worried will happen with your mother? It kind of sounds from your description as if she's already made up her mind to adopt a bemused attitude towards their pushiness. I think it probably wouldn't help her much for you to try to get involved at this point, other than perhaps to let her know that you're concerned about what you see as their bullying of her, and see what her response is. Granted, a lot of people feel the way you do, that they would rather just cut off the relationship altogether at that point, but then there are those who prefer to wave it off with a good-natured smile instead, and I think that's fine if that works for them. I doubt their intentions are sadistic or malicious, more on the order of dogged persistence than bullying really.

I'm not really qualified to speak to the 'concept' behind it, but my guess is they see your mother as someone who needs help and appears troubled in some way, and for them that translates into a duty to 'minister' to her. Often people of that sort of religious background feel very strongly about the transformative or rehabilitative potential of faith, so when they see someone who they feel is in need of help, that's what comes first to mind for them as 'the solution'. Not entirely unlike the way some people can't stop promoting some particular lifestyle regimen every chance they get, only on a grander scale, so to speak. I can understand that there's often a kind of arrogance involved, 'My solution is a guaranteed universal cure-all and if it doesn't work for you then that's some failing in you' etc., but again, I think it's probably best to let your mother come to terms with the situation in her own way.

 

[butter7]

Ok, my mum who is also an atheist has a friend, who is quite christian. Now as i've said in the past, I don't mind if people are religious, I just don't want to talk about it with them, or have it shoved in my face (wearng the cross and thanking God doesn't constitute shoving it in my face for the nitpickers)

Now this woman, has been trying to get my mum to go to some of her christian meetings and mum has respectfully declined, as well, she isn't a believer, nor does she want to be one. Now my mum is in her middle 50's, lives alone (well did, until we moved back in) and lives a crazy stressful and rather lonely life. This woman has been getting increasingly forceful with her comments about mum's life and I feel preying on my mums insecurities (being alone) by making it seem like only welcoming jesus into her life will make her feel better.

Yesterday she left 3 msgs in the space of two hours on the answering machine telling mum she had something "really" important to tell her, and when mum got back she said she had popped in an the woman was there with a few of her friends and they tried to get mum to admit she needed jesus and go to church with them!! Mum was laughing, but I AM NOT. My mother is a strong woman, but i am scared that these people will prey on her weaknesses, and when i go overseas i won't be here to protect her from them. You may think its a harsh thing to say, but nothing good can come from this. I feel sick at their sly advances, trying to "recruit" my mum, and feel its totally against what they preach, about understanding and evertything. Why would you want to bully someone into your religion? What good would that do them to be coerced and made to feel shit about themselves in order to believe.

I understand if you want to spread "his" word, but i feel like these people are going about it all the wrong way, and I really want to say something to them, but don't want to get down and have some dirty slanging match, which im sure it will turn into, as im really REALLY pissed at this.

Why do some people do this? I don't understand the concept behind it at all.

You know, once your computer attacked by virus, the anti-virus software company will be happy, because they see it as an opportunity to sell their products to you.

I perfectly understand the situation you described in the post, these jesus seller just never would let you be quiet for one second, once they see the chance.

I often got a feeling that these jesus-selling people actually pray for the world to be worse, others' lives to be miserable, so that they could make you one of their kind.

I don't against people with their religion, but I was extremely annoyed by some of the religious people's pursuing behaviour. Had two aweful experience before, when I firstly came to Australia. Both are in the train station.

One guy pursued me to go to a sunday meeting, aftered me to the train, and I was in a playful mood. So I tried to appear very interested, he promised the sun, the moon, the stars, then start to give me all the handouts. I carefully hold these handouts, and asked him:"are you a true christian?" He said yes.

So I picked up the handout, slaped his left face, not hard, of course, because I was only making a point, and I asked him to turn his right face to me.

No need to mention this guy run out of the train at the next station, like there are fire burning under his seat.

Few monthes later, I got a women did the same thing to me, I hold her both hands in my hand, and said:"Poor baby, you know only if you could find Mohammed, your pain will end..."

That was after the London bombing, I think the time helped the trick also.

In fact, it's pretty interesting to see these things to happen, and I think the main difference between atheists and christians are, as to me, atheists would be happy and satisfied with the love right in front of their eyes, they need nothing more than a happy life, and they knew that's the one and only thing they should trasure. Christians, on the other hand, always felt lost and kind of empty in their heart, because they always need someone, who is in their imagination to comfort them.

Not sure if it's related to the childhood experience. Some people for some reason, will forever need the super-man (a kind thing) to protect the weak all through their lives.

Don't worry too much about your mum, I think she'll be okay. Just tell her you love her, and you two together can make anything happen. You haven't got the word impossible write in your dictionary, yet. And a girl in a faraway place, through the internet, wish her all the best.

 

[Vincent Vega]

"You know, once your computer attacked by virus, the anti-virus software company will be happy, because they see it as an opportunity to sell their products to you."



There is such things as freeware, and I also don't quite understand the comparison.
So you'd rather have your computer full of viruses and trojans than support companies that actually try to help people saving their data from this crap?
I think that doesn't really fit to what happens here, people trying to convert another person.

I don't think you should get involved by contacting the "friend" without talking to your mother about it before hand.
She is in her mid-50's, so I think she preferes to speak for herself.
As she is laughing about it all it seems she is pretty confident.

But I agree with you, people that do such things, tricking her to come and then kind of ambushing her in order to finally believe is a really poor showing of how low they've fallen.
I'm fine with people saying their belief helps them, but it's not ok at all to try to force people to believe as well.
I also hate all kinds of missionary.

 

[butter7]

"You know, once your computer attacked by virus, the anti-virus software company will be happy, because they see it as an opportunity to sell their products to you."



There is such things as freeware, and I also don't quite understand the comparison.
So you'd rather have your computer full of viruses and trojans than support companies that actually try to help people saving their data from this crap?
I think that doesn't really fit to what happens here, people trying to convert another person.

I don't know why I got misunderstood all the time...

You won't buy everything that sales man thought you MUST have, will you?

Of course it's not about virus, it's about the attitude of these company. Because they are seeking the opportunities to sell you things, and yes, they live on your agony. The link between anti-virus company and christian belief is that if there was no virus in this world, the anti-virus software is useless. Same logic, if everyone is feeling happy and satisfied from the bottom of the heart, religion will have no market. No matter if it is a payed software, or a "free ware".

End of rant. I hope that can help with clearing something, a bit off topic though....

 

[Sherry Darling]

For whatever it's worth, Amy, I've been a Christian all my life, and consider it central to what I'm about, and I don't understand that behavior either.

"Preech the gospel at all times. Use words if necessary" ~St. Francis

 

[Got Philk?]

MAT 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

I'm not preaching to you. I looked up this verse to answer your original question as to why your mom's friends do what they do. Except, some people tend to go a bit too far.

Sherry Darling, that quote is perfect.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Preach back Russell, Dawkins and Hitchens.

 

[Liesje]

What they're doing sounds like silliness at best, annoying perseverance at worst, but compared to some of the fanatics' tactics, they've got a LONG way to go before they've reached the level of bullying and coercion. If your mom still values her friendship with this woman, she should continue to politely decline their offers. If it's getting in the way of their friendship, she should cut ties and move on. I really don't think these people are maliciously preying on anybody. The truth is it's hard for people to admit they are depressed, sad, lonely, whatever and it's hard for us to know how to approach friends we know are depressed, sad, lonely, whatever so some people like your mom's friend will use their religion as some kind of shield or excuse to do what they should be doing all along - being a true friend and reaching out.

 

[anitram]

I remember being approached by this campus Christian group. They were polite enough so I listened to the two girls for maybe 5 minutes and took their pamphlet. Then they invited me to some sort of weekly dinner they sponsor to bring others "into the fold of Christ's love" or some such. I declined and told them I wasn't interested. They persisted and I told them I really wasn't the religious type. And they looked at me incredulously, and asked "But, don't you want to be saved?"

 

[coemgen]

Why would you want to bully someone into your religion? What good would that do them to be coerced and made to feel shit about themselves in order to believe.

I understand if you want to spread "his" word, but i feel like these people are going about it all the wrong way, and I really want to say something to them, but don't want to get down and have some dirty slanging match, which im sure it will turn into, as im really REALLY pissed at this.

As a Christian, this has always irked me, too. You can't force someone into believing something or having a relationship with Christ. The whole point of the relationship is that it's something the person chooses to have. I understand these people's desire for someone to have a relationship with Christ, but I agree that they've gone about it the wrong way. For something to be shared, that something has to be seen, typically. Even if you share love for someone, it has to be seen in some form or another for it to be effective. I think the same goes for sharing one's faith. They have to see the benefits of it in your life, first and foremost. Then, he if the opportunity arises to discuss it, that's great. To treat it as though it's something you're going door to door selling tends to cheapen it many times, I think. Plus, it's usually just annoying to the person anyway, which isn't effective.

I'm sorry you and your mom are dealing with this. However, I'd say keep in mind they probably (I hope) at least have good intentions for your mom. She just needs to be honest with them about how she feels. As odd as it sounds, I'll pray for the situation. Keep us posted.

 

[trevster2k]

I will be polite and listen to their initial pitch. But if they persist after I decline, I start getting irritated. I once told a Jehovah's witness person "You can leave that pamphlet with me if you want to and it's going straight to the garbage or you can give to someone who is interested". They took it out of my hand.

My father who is an alcoholic and with whom I have no relationship went to work in Texas last year. He is a Buddhist but he met some other Chinese workers in his office who helped with moving and getting around in his new city. They were Christians, (don't know denomination) and anyway, they ended up getting my father to go to Bible studies during the week and church. I think they are evangelicals and my father needing assistance and feeling obligated, he went along. Now I hope it helped him stop drinking and become a better person, but if he starts giving me shit about going to church, it will be a new reason for our estrangement.

Despite me being an atheist, I do see the value in religious belief for some people and during certain moments in their lives. But personally, I don't believe in a god who watches and listens to my every moment simutaneously along with the other 6 billion people on Earth but it's ok with me if others do. Just don't bug me to join but I do encourage discussion.

 

[dazzlingamy]

Thank you everyone for your answers - as always insightful and helpful. For the record, my mum certainly knows about my distaste for the whole situations, and while I feel she is far removed from their advances, im worried they might try to wear her down, over time, when im not her to prop her back up. I have immeasurable love and trust in my mum and know she'll stay strong, but im just angry and frustrated at the tactics, and scared they might escalate when they know i'm no longer here.

thanks again for all the replies

 

[butter7]

I remember being approached by this campus Christian group. They were polite enough so I listened to the two girls for maybe 5 minutes and took their pamphlet. Then they invited me to some sort of weekly dinner they sponsor to bring others "into the fold of Christ's love" or some such. I declined and told them I wasn't interested. They persisted and I told them I really wasn't the religious type. And they looked at me incredulously, and asked "But, don't you want to be saved?"

One person I knew on-line, who is a christian, and he told me:"If you don't (join us, being a christian), you'll be burned in the hell".

 

[trevster2k]

One person I knew on-line, who is a christian, and he told me:"If you don't (join us, being a christian), you'll be burned in the hell".

My response to that is "Better to rule in hell then serve in heaven" That really pisses 'em off or makes 'em pray harder for me.

 

[butter7]

My response to that is "Better to rule in hell then serve in heaven" That really pisses 'em off or makes 'em pray harder for me.

Learned that. Will try next time. Thanks.

Seriously, the stick and the carrot, they really tried damn hard to convert us, didn't they?

 

[martha]

Y'know, their tactics are disrespectful, but if your mom wants them to go away, she'll tell them. If they don't respond, she'll tell them again, whether you're there to "protect" her or not.

You're making it sound like they're trying to get her to shoot up some heroin. I've never been able to understand atheists' fear of faith.

 

[butter7]

You're making it sound like they're trying to get her to shoot up some heroin. I've never been able to understand atheists' fear of faith.

I don't read it as it's purely fear. Rather, it's kind of deep frustration, at the same time, still wanted to be respectful to others.

You know, I could do 100 times worse than dazzlingamy did, if some one did the same thing to my family. Simply because we grow up in different culture environment, and I have less ethical rules in my mind, probably, than most of people registered in this forum.

However, I deeply aware of letting the anger leaks out might have hurt inter-personal relationship and losing support and friendship from others. It is fear, not to the religious faith, but to the faith of being a socially responsible person.

And for the folks who don't read it, there' re two versions of translation: First one is more based on the meaning, and the second one is more literally translated.

1. Do as you would be done by others

2. Do not do to others what you do not want others to do to you

Do you want people following down the street, knocking at your doors, lecturing in your lounge room, to convert you to give up your religious belief, because it's psychological opium, all the church did was to brain wash you, so they could have make a live from your money?

And if you don't want to listen to these, don't do the same to us. Thanks.

 

[BVS]

You're making it sound like they're trying to get her to shoot up some heroin. I've never been able to understand atheists' fear of faith.

That's a great response. I absolutely abhor the way these folks dealt with it, I agree that it shouldn't be dealt with any type of agressive behavior.

 

[DrTeeth]

I remember being approached by this campus Christian group. They were polite enough so I listened to the two girls for maybe 5 minutes and took their pamphlet. Then they invited me to some sort of weekly dinner they sponsor to bring others "into the fold of Christ's love" or some such. I declined and told them I wasn't interested. They persisted and I told them I really wasn't the religious type. And they looked at me incredulously, and asked "But, don't you want to be saved?"

I think there's something extremely arrogant about people coming at your door to tell you how to live your life, but I usually let them say their bit because I know they mean well and most of them are very nice and polite (even up to the point where it makes me a bit nauseous). However, when I tell them I'm not interested, I do expect them to get the message and move on. Unfortunately, most of the times I have to debate a few issues with them before they finally hit the road.

 

[maycocksean]

I also hate all kinds of missionary. [/B]

Thanks, Vincent.

I always thought we got along pretty well. . .

 

[maycocksean]

Re: Re: Fear of recruiting christians

I often got a feeling that these jesus-selling people actually pray for the world to be worse, others' lives to be miserable, so that they could make you one of their kind.

Surely you must be kidding. . .

In fact, it's pretty interesting to see these things to happen, and I think the main difference between atheists and christians are, as to me, atheists would be happy and satisfied with the love right in front of their eyes, they need nothing more than a happy life, and they knew that's the one and only thing they should trasure. Christians, on the other hand, always felt lost and kind of empty in their heart, because they always need someone, who is in their imagination to comfort them.

Set up a lot of straw men, do you? This has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read. These kinds of broad mischaracterizations are wrong when Christians make them about atheists. They are just as wrong when atheists make them about believers.

 

[maycocksean]

Ok, my mum who is also an atheist has a friend, who is quite christian. Now as i've said in the past, I don't mind if people are religious, I just don't want to talk about it with them, or have it shoved in my face (wearng the cross and thanking God doesn't constitute shoving it in my face for the nitpickers)

Now this woman, has been trying to get my mum to go to some of her christian meetings and mum has respectfully declined, as well, she isn't a believer, nor does she want to be one. Now my mum is in her middle 50's, lives alone (well did, until we moved back in) and lives a crazy stressful and rather lonely life. This woman has been getting increasingly forceful with her comments about mum's life and I feel preying on my mums insecurities (being alone) by making it seem like only welcoming jesus into her life will make her feel better.

Yesterday she left 3 msgs in the space of two hours on the answering machine telling mum she had something "really" important to tell her, and when mum got back she said she had popped in an the woman was there with a few of her friends and they tried to get mum to admit she needed jesus and go to church with them!! Mum was laughing, but I AM NOT. My mother is a strong woman, but i am scared that these people will prey on her weaknesses, and when i go overseas i won't be here to protect her from them. You may think its a harsh thing to say, but nothing good can come from this. I feel sick at their sly advances, trying to "recruit" my mum, and feel its totally against what they preach, about understanding and evertything. Why would you want to bully someone into your religion? What good would that do them to be coerced and made to feel shit about themselves in order to believe.

I understand if you want to spread "his" word, but i feel like these people are going about it all the wrong way, and I really want to say something to them, but don't want to get down and have some dirty slanging match, which im sure it will turn into, as im really REALLY pissed at this.

Why do some people do this? I don't understand the concept behind it at all.

I'm not really sure either. As a Christian AND a missionary the tactics you describe are really deplorable to me. . .I would never condone them, or really any kind "tactics". I don't think "tactics" or "strategies" have any place in Christian faith. Unfortunately, there are many Christians who feel otherwise.

I suspect that your mom's friends are well-intentioned (i.e. they sincerely believe they are offering something of value to your mom) but certainly overzealous. I'm sorry she has to put up with that and that it is a source of stress to you.

These issues have been on my mind a lot lately. I'm thinking to post a journal entry on it but I haven't had the time to organize my thoughts on it. . .I'll let you know when I do though, and I'd welcome your comments on it. I did write an entry about two months ago about my experience going door to door with my church. . .check it out if you're interested in a perspective from the "other side."

 

[Vincent Vega]

Thanks, Vincent.

I always thought we got along pretty well. . .

Maybe you could elaborate a bit on the advantages of missionising people and I would get a better understanding.

I'm sorry if that hurt you. But do you know, on the other hand, how it might hurt people if someone knocked at their door, tried to sell them some religion and then said things like the "lakes of fire", "you won't be saved" or whatever.

I know, there are many who don't use this as an argument.

I didn't know that my personal perceptions are so hurtful.

So, please educate me on missionisation.

Rethinking, the word "hate" might be a bit harsh sounding.
It's not as if I hated the people doing that, and having done a job as a sales man myself I think a whole lot different from door knockers than many do I know.
I don't know the exact word or phrase to describe it.

I just feel a bit uncomfortable, uneasy, awkward, I don't know, about people trying to sell me their religion.

Of course, even religion has to make aware of itself. And I try to blind out the history of churches and the way they missionised in former times.
But I also think they have to accept that faith is a bit more than buying some product, or like I "sold", doing a Child Sponsorship.
Faith goes so much deeper, and when people have found their faith, or came to the conclusion that they do not believe, it should be fine.

I really didn't want to hurt anyone, and am sorry that I probably came across a bit harsh used, and I hope that you don't bear grudges on me.

I always liked your posts, and think that you are, like yolland, one of the most eloquent posters who always seems to keep the overall picture right and give very objective statements. So I would be happy if we could get along well in future as well.

 

[Vincent Vega]

I don't know why I got misunderstood all the time...

You won't buy everything that sales man thought you MUST have, will you?

Of course it's not about virus, it's about the attitude of these company. Because they are seeking the opportunities to sell you things, and yes, they live on your agony. The link between anti-virus company and christian belief is that if there was no virus in this world, the anti-virus software is useless. Same logic, if everyone is feeling happy and satisfied from the bottom of the heart, religion will have no market. No matter if it is a payed software, or a "free ware".

End of rant. I hope that can help with clearing something, a bit off topic though....

I don't buy everything, but I do buy things that protect me when I can't protect myself.
A firewall or anti virus program is part of that.
Before some companies started to make anti virus software, and again, some of them don't charge you for using this software, there were viruses. So something had to be done.
The viruses are software, created everyday in thousands. Others are trojans, spyware, or whatever. You can have all the love in your heart, that won't keep a virus from getting into your computer.
I've lost a whole HDD to a virus. I had love, the virus killed the HDD. So I have to do something.

If there was no one that made, and updated, anti virus software, viruses would still be there. Only way to protect your computer would then be to unplug your internet access.
So I really don't get that analogy.

 

[butter7]

I don't buy everything, but I do buy things that protect me when I can't protect myself.
A firewall or anti virus program is part of that.
Before some companies started to make anti virus software, and again, some of them don't charge you for using this software, there were viruses. So something had to be done.
The viruses are software, created everyday in thousands. Others are trojans, spyware, or whatever. You can have all the love in your heart, that won't keep a virus from getting into your computer.
I've lost a whole HDD to a virus. I had love, the virus killed the HDD. So I have to do something.

If there was no one that made, and updated, anti virus software, viruses would still be there. Only way to protect your computer would then be to unplug your internet access.
So I really don't get that analogy.

okay, I'll try list this time, because I got a feeling that you only read the first two sentence from my posts. All points are equal important.

1. My point is NOT about virus, my point is about selling religion to others that might not need.

2. I believe you make selection about anti-virus software you use, too. You didn't install all of them, did you? Same as religion, you make choice to find the one that most suits you, or, choose to have none.

3. I had no anti-virus software, firewalls while I was on windows98 laptop, 2 years ago. Never had any virus/trojan problem. And I'm still not believe in any religion, never had any problem with my life either.

4. Why use the word 'sell'? Because it's different from you find the religion and say...wow...that's what I'm looking for. It is someone stand at your doors, lecturing you for half hour about how you should live your life. Same as someone stand at the same place, telling you why you really should try their products.

5. This is the LAST time I reply on this confusion. I really hope this time it worked. Or, please tell yourself that someone is too dull to make a right comparison. I don't mind that really.

 

[butter7]

Re: Re: Re: Fear of recruiting christians

Surely you must be kidding. . .

Set up a lot of straw men, do you? This has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read. These kinds of broad mischaracterizations are wrong when Christians make them about atheists. They are just as wrong when atheists make them about believers.

Maybe. According to individual, I must say. Some individuals that I met were definitely gone too far. I understand that it is not accurate to use small samples and apply the result to big groups. However, there is a question: Why it's always THEM?

I make good friend with some buddhists, especially with a Zen teacher. Never got any problem with my hindu classmates, either. None of them have persisted me to believe in to their religion.

 

[Vincent Vega]

No, when I reply someone I normally read every sentence. Only sometimes I tend to forget one sentence to include, but I don't read only the first two sentences.

And I just think that the analogy is flawed.

Of course you only use one anti virus software. Having installed more than one is worse because they rather fight each other. It diminishes the security.
I've had viruses, and I know others who had viruses. And so I protect myself. If you go without, and are lucky to stay virus free, congratulations.

I don't believe as well, but I think the analogy is just flawed. When you believe, or do not believe, you made up your mind and most probably got into some deep thinking about it. Religion, as well as Atheism, isn't something you just wear, or decide to get for yourself, but it's something that comes from a deep point inside yourself. One might say it' the soul, the other might say it's the brain, and A_Wanderer probably would tell you which part of the brain exactly got you belief, or not.

You don't get religion or atheism the way you install an anti virus software, and you have different intentions for both.

I didn't have a problem with my life, eiher. But your third point sounds as if you meant, religion is just something people "install" when they got into trouble. That might be the case for some, but most certainly not for most. To get a anti virus software after your computer ran into a problem would be too late.

And on a side note, a well programmed trojan works on your computer without you recognizing it. A virus might be on your computer and you don't realize it either.
And it's a great possibility that your computer has become part of a spam bot. That's for internet security.

It's a pity that you don't want to discuss it further, but I wanted to make clear that I indeed read your posts, but don't think the analogy works that well.

 

[butter7]

No, when I reply someone I normally read every sentence. Only sometimes I tend to forget one sentence to include, but I don't read only the first two sentences.

And I just think that the analogy is flawed.

Of course you only use one anti virus software. Having installed more than one is worse because they rather fight each other. It diminishes the security.
I've had viruses, and I know others who had viruses. And so I protect myself. If you go without, and are lucky to stay virus free, congratulations.

I don't believe as well, but I think the analogy is just flawed. When you believe, or do not believe, you made up your mind and most probably got into some deep thinking about it. Religion, as well as Atheism, isn't something you just wear, or decide to get for yourself, but it's something that comes from a deep point inside yourself. One might say it' the soul, the other might say it's the brain, and A_Wanderer probably would tell you which part of the brain exactly got you belief, or not.

You don't get religion or atheism the way you install an anti virus software, and you have different intentions for both.

I didn't have a problem with my life, eiher. But your third point sounds as if you meant, religion is just something people "install" when they got into trouble. That might be the case for some, but most certainly not for most. To get a anti virus software after your computer ran into a problem would be too late.

And on a side note, a well programmed trojan works on your computer without you recognizing it. A virus might be on your computer and you don't realize it either.
And it's a great possibility that your computer has become part of a spam bot. That's for internet security.

It's a pity that you don't want to discuss it further, but I wanted to make clear that I indeed read your posts, but don't think the analogy works that well.

Now I got you point. Sorry, it seems that I'm the one that confused all the time...

I didn't thought people would really look at the useage of anti-virus software, becaue by the time I was only wanted to do the comparison of the people who knocking your door and persist you to accept their religion to the sales man that stand at the same place try to get you to buy their products. And, might because I'm on a computer, so I wrote anti-virus software.

I only used the selling as a form, not really the usage of anti-virus software and religion.

plus, as for trojan, it's very different from virus. I have never got a virus for about 3 years or even longer, but instead I got trojans.

Trojan can do most of things that virus can do, plus, some of trojans are designed to control your computer. And the second one, which usually don't want to be noticed. To name one of the most famous one: Hui Ge Zi, or, the grey dove. Norton (corporate version)still couldn't handle it.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Amy, your mum is going to feel it, or she won't. If she doesn't feel it and they keep at her, then she's going to end up annoyed or having to tell them very clearly. If she does end up feeling it (converting), there's not much you can or should do. She'll do whatever she feels right doing. Trust her. You don't have to trust the others, just your mum.