Fear of recruiting christians

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butter7 said:


No....why? :confused:

Because for a religious person it is all but a "fairy tale addiction".
It's an insult if you imply they are addicted to believe in a fairy tale.

You can view this board the way you want, but there is no difference whether people are talking eye to eye or writing on an internet forum. They do feel insulted by this.

Just as it is insulting for some, for me personally it's laughable, to tell atheists something of lake of fires and so on. Or that they are immoral and evil and responsible for all the bad in the world.

This is the internet, right, and it's a discussion. But it doesn't change the fact that you have to watch your words. Because it doesn't matter whether spoken or typed, you are insulting with these.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


It would be like if I said your love for your wife is a farce.

How can you not see that as a personal attack?

thanks Vincent for the explaination. I think you made a good point.

so, I apologize if I offened you and any religious people who read my post, I'm sorry for make you feel bad.

PS...

Ironically, even you only making an example, I think your love for your wife is a farce is hit the truth somehow.:hmm: I do believe that at the end, the only thing belong to a person is that wood box. Love didn't worth much. Needs play a much better role in maintening a relationship.

I might left the one I love, but I would never left the one that I need.

PPS...

I'm a girl, and single, and have no boyfriend.

PPPS...

Anyone interested?:wink:
 
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Butter- that is a sad way of looking at love. Do you truly believe that the only worthwhile things in this life are things you can hold in your hands?
 
I'm not religious either, so no offense taken.

However, this attitude that this is just the internet and I can write what I want is very popular, but not true at all. What you write can hit someones feelings, so people shouldn't take it too lightly.
 
Vincent Vega said:
I'm not religious either, so no offense taken.

However, this attitude that this is just the internet and I can write what I want is very popular, but not true at all. What you write can hit someones feelings, so people shouldn't take it too lightly.

Sorry, I got your point, but today, I have to take some of my words back. from:

butter7 said:


You are saying that some religious people don't think God exist? Just like some smokers don't think smoke kills?

A bit weird to me...if they don't think God exist, what they believe in then? :eyebrow:

to this post (not included).

Took too much sugar, and being really cheap last night.

The explainations I made in these posts was truly not worthfull and extremely lack of self respect. I certainly wished I could please some people. But I was wrong, completely.

I acknowledge that fact that I should have use more diplomatic phrases when posting in a fire line thread like this, and should have carefully consider some of the words that I used in the following quote.

butter7 said:
err....

A little thoughts here....


Any one here (atheist) want to try to "save" one or two religious people from their fairy tale addictions?

However, I shouldn't have apology to anyone for mentioning what I truely believe. Especially consider about the fact that they could publically shouting out their believes and never have considered my (and many others) feeling. I shouldn't have downgrade and humiliate myself by applying far too strict standard to myself. So I took all the inappropriate words back.

To popsadie:

What these things would mean to me if I couldn't hold them in my hands, or even chasing them? I'm no longer the little girl who believes that one day a real prince would come on a white horse. to ask me to marry him.

Putting a smile on a sad face means 1000 times more than a glorious empty promise. That's why I truly admire Bono for the work he's done for the people who need him.

I'm a materialist, but I'm not material driven. Materials/Money is not everything, but without them, you (and me) are nothing. I only be able to get your opinion, because both of us have payed for the computer divices, internet connection and some people here have payed membership, too. You post means something to me, but if I haven't read it, how I gonna know/feel it?

Why you love someone? When you love someone, do you want them to love back? And what if I said I love you, mean while I tortured you? Could you feel the love throught the physical and mental abuse? To me, love someone = treat the individual the way he/she wish to be treated; A wish = Needs.
 
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popsadie said:
Butter- that is a sad way of looking at love. Do you truly believe that the only worthwhile things in this life are things you can hold in your hands?
A materialistic explanation of love doesn't cheapen it; it is there to feel good and make long term social connections which have a whole lot of added benefits for offspring. Love is an addiction to facillitate beneficial mating strategies; does it cheapen the feeling - no - because it still feels good (just as Peyote doesn't become less "spiritual" to believers when mescaline was discovered).

A relationship with God is as much mental masturbation as unrequited love, in fact moreso because the object of this imbalance is an nonentity. I may lack the capacity to have the first but I do know the second and it is more than possible for ones mind to develop a "relationship" (as in a fondness, a euphoria when thinking of them etc.) without actually having any real connection; I guess that when it happens with "God" you never have to do a reality check.
 
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No..Love is not only a feeling. It is also a commitment to another. I must admit that materialism is a practicing philosophy that severely annoys me. Your equation of a relationship with God or a lover to a feeling that you can get from peyote is narrow at best and insulting at worst.
 
You know..I'm not calling atheists heartless or heathen. Why does it seem ok for atheists to tell me I'm "worshiping a fairy tale or mentally masturbating?
 
popsadie said:
You know..I'm not calling atheists heartless or heathen. Why does it seem ok for atheists to tell me I'm "worshiping a fairy tale or mentally masturbating?

Telling the truth, do you think atheists heartless or heathen? :wink:

Not very much agree on the mentally masturbating part though...
 
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anitram said:


I don't think all missionary action is necessarily bad. But I also don't believe it's bad behaviour on behalf of one group - this has been systemic, over centuries. It is very arguable whether missionary actions have been more beneficial or harmful to local populations, but this is a matter of historical perspective.

I'll have to concede this point to you. The history of missionary activity has been pretty ugly I have to admitt. I'd probably be more inclined to say harmful. . .

But here's a point to ponder. . .perhaps the most egregious abuses of missionary activity have happened when Christianity has been harnessed to earthly power and authority. When the missionary represents and endorses a conquering power bent on wealth and domination, missionary activity is going to reflect that as well.

Now granted the Jehovah's Witnesses are hardly harnessed to earthly power and authority, nor do they seem to be seeking it (as opposed to a lot of the religio-political folk on the Right in the U.S). But among Christian groups that don't have some additonal, less than holy agenda, they ARE a bit unsual in their aggressive methodology.

Might I also suggest that belief in hell might also encourage aggressive and yes, even underhanded or manipulative, missionary activity as the stakes become ridiculously high when you really believe you're saving people from an ETERNITY in torment.

Hell is such a horrific dogma. . .every time I write it, I'm just shocked that people can believe in it and a loving God at the same time. . .but I digress. . .

anitram said:
I mean, consider this statement made by the Pope just a couple of days ago:



To me, that's simply outrageous. .

Yeah, it is. A bit of wishful thinking there. . .


anitram said:
I actually really like what Bill Maher said on his show when he was discussing Jesus Camp. He had an evangelical woman on who stated that if you see somebody hungry on the street, would you not be compelled to feed them? And he replied with essentially: why can't you understand that I'm not hungry? .

I think the fact that he's "not hungry" would be news to her. Many Christians are under the impression that everyone who doesn't "know the Lord" are miserable and unhappy.

But then again, judging from certain posts by others on this thread, Christians certainly don't have the market cornered on making condescending and ill-informed judgement about others who don't share their outlook on life.
 
popsadie said:
You know..I'm not calling atheists heartless or heathen. Why does it seem ok for atheists to tell me I'm "worshiping a fairy tale or mentally masturbating?

Lack of respect is no respecter of religion or lack thereof. . .

And A_Wanderer considers disrespect for those he believes are wrong a basic part of his world view so I wouldn't expect anything less than mockery from him. . .he believes it's his duty.

But at least he's up front about it, and ironically I suppose that is a kind of respect.
 
butter7 said:


Telling the truth, do you think atheists heartless or heathen? :wink:

Sorry to disappoint you, but. . .no.


What is a "heathen" by the way?
 
I don't think atheists are heartless. My mother is an atheist and I don't see that at all. Still, it seems like several atheists on this board have no problem with labeling christians as "wishful thinkers" or even "mental masturbaters", which is what I take offense with.
 
maycocksean said:


Sorry to disappoint you, but. . .no.


What is a "heathen" by the way?

Check out wikipedia for the word heathen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism

You didn't disappoint me.:D I'm very happy to hear that, actually.

And I hope you are true to your heart. Because to my heart, Bible is no more than a dark themed fairy tale collection book.

And feel sorry for the people who rather hear my lie. If the truth have made anyone felt uncomfortable or offended, I'm sorry, but the truth is the truth. So please don't lie to me, either. :wave:
 
butter7 said:


Check out wikipedia for the word heathen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism

You didn't disappoint me.:D I'm very happy to hear that, actually.

And I hope you are true to your heart. Because to my heart, Bible is no more than a dark themed fairy tale collection book.

And feel sorry for the people who rather hear my lie. If the truth have made anyone felt uncomfortable or offended, I'm sorry, but the truth is the truth. So please don't lie to me, either. :wave:

Thanks for the wikipedia link. I don't use the word "heathen" regardless of it's actual meaning because it has an insulting vibe to it. . .

I certainly don't desire for you to lie. If I have an issue with anything, it would be your condescending tone and presumption that you know all about how believers think. . .like I said earlier, you seem to like creating straw men.

That may have something to do with your last statement "I'm sorry but the truth is the truth." Usually that type of combative stance spells trouble, whether it comes from an atheist or a believer.
 
maycocksean said:


Thanks for the wikipedia link. I don't use the word "heathen" regardless of it's actual meaning because it has an insulting vibe to it. . .

I certainly don't desire for you to lie. If I have an issue with anything, it would be your condescending tone and presumption that you know all about how believers think. . .like I said earlier, you seem to like creating straw men.

That may have something to do with your last statement "I'm sorry but the truth is the truth." Usually that type of combative stance spells trouble, whether it comes from an atheist or a believer.

hehehe, I guess it's only a matter how people see it.

Until now, no one has contribute anything on the progress of the discussion and the question that I asked, majority of people only stick on the three words I used "fairy tale addiction" and passionately started bashing. I guess you've read last night's posts, all the bullshit flowing across the sky like shooting stars! I couldn't help myself laughing my head off this morning, when i read them again. :laugh:

Couldn't believe myself actually jointed in a meaningless, 3 pages long, off-topic dicussion!

Shall we go back to the topic now? okay, page 5, post 3.

Any comments?
 
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butter7 said:
all the bullshit flowing across the sky like shooting stars!

You're not making as much sense as you think you are. You keep insulting people, saying inflammatory crap, and then retracting your statements when people call you on them and acting hurt and misunderstood.

This isn't a good start for you in FYM.

The truth is the truth.
 
martha said:


You're not making as much sense as you think you are. You keep insulting people, saying inflammatory crap, and then retracting your statements when people call you on them and acting hurt and misunderstood.

This isn't a good start for you in FYM.

The truth is the truth.

martha said:


WTF does this mean? I'm fully in this thread's discussion. Too damn bad if you don't like what I say.

Why you think I act like hurted and misunderstood? I agree in some level, last night's discussion went lose to a wrong direction, which actually appears to me very funny, when I look at it this morning.

I do agree that due to some sugar effect, some phrases I used last night should be given a second consideration before I click the submit button.

Glad you tell me the truth how you think about me though. I usually not very interested in FYM, PLEABA is much more attractive to me, due to some obvious reasons. :lol:
 
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Now, can we back to the track, continue the dicussion which has been cutted down on page 5, post 3?
 
dazzlingamy said:
Ok, my mum who is also an atheist has a friend, who is quite christian. Now as i've said in the past, I don't mind if people are religious, I just don't want to talk about it with them, or have it shoved in my face (wearng the cross and thanking God doesn't constitute shoving it in my face for the nitpickers)

Now this woman, has been trying to get my mum to go to some of her christian meetings and mum has respectfully declined, as well, she isn't a believer, nor does she want to be one. Now my mum is in her middle 50's, lives alone (well did, until we moved back in) and lives a crazy stressful and rather lonely life. This woman has been getting increasingly forceful with her comments about mum's life and I feel preying on my mums insecurities (being alone) by making it seem like only welcoming jesus into her life will make her feel better.

Yesterday she left 3 msgs in the space of two hours on the answering machine telling mum she had something "really" important to tell her, and when mum got back she said she had popped in an the woman was there with a few of her friends and they tried to get mum to admit she needed jesus and go to church with them!! Mum was laughing, but I AM NOT. My mother is a strong woman, but i am scared that these people will prey on her weaknesses, and when i go overseas i won't be here to protect her from them. You may think its a harsh thing to say, but nothing good can come from this. I feel sick at their sly advances, trying to "recruit" my mum, and feel its totally against what they preach, about understanding and evertything. Why would you want to bully someone into your religion? What good would that do them to be coerced and made to feel shit about themselves in order to believe.

I understand if you want to spread "his" word, but i feel like these people are going about it all the wrong way, and I really want to say something to them, but don't want to get down and have some dirty slanging match, which im sure it will turn into, as im really REALLY pissed at this.

Why do some people do this? I don't understand the concept behind it at all.

You and your mum have my sympathies. I've been on the receiving end of the hard sell many times. I can understand your unease as these so-called friends do seem to be preying on your mum when she is at a potentially low point, but she seems to be pretty good at deflecting them. Laughing is always a good sign in my book.

If you are really worried about how she will deal with them when you are away, talk to you mum about it. Your mum sounds pretty spunky. Chances are she's enjoying their attempts and is in no danger at all of falling for their spiel. Several people in our little community, including my mum (and to lesser extent, me) were targeted by a family who switched denominations and "found" God (I was unaware he/it was missing). Invites to lunch, over to visit, and phone calls all were preludes to the type of browbeating you describe (one on one though -- I don't think in the case I'm talking about they ever brought reinforcements. That is mighty creepy, especially if they came to you mum's house). None of the people I knew bought what they were selling. However, recountings of the experiences brought much merriment for years afterwards.
 
Thanks indra and everyone else for commenting again.

I have shown mum the thread, and she was very interested in the replies, and she promised me, she won't ever go to church with her friend, so i feel better. :)

I guess to be honest, im scared of these sort of religious people. The ones who seems completely wrapped up and lost in religion, like fundies i guess. I just completely don't understand where their complete fervour and conviction comes from, and how they can maintain it and yes in the past i have compared these sorts of people to being well perhaps slighty deranged, but i guess its more on my part of not knowing how they can be that "obsessed" with the intangiable, more then me trying to pick a fight. I just could not deal if my mum ever started like that.
 
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