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#1 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
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Every 2 Weeks, A Language Dies
Quote:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science...s_N.htm?csp=34 I think its a real shame and is very sad. Not only would these languages help scientists and researchers, but languages are what defines a culture. When the language dies so does the culture. I don't think it would mean as much if a ceremony or song is conducted in a more common language than if it were in its original, ancient language. |
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#2 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 03:01 AM
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I think that it's inevitable that with globalisation languages spoken by small tribes or small groupings will die out, and I'd probably on balance say that this is not necessarily a bad thing.
__________________The Irish language is basically kept alive by government funding, and by the requirement that school teachers must display some level of competency. |
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#3 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: May 2006
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I agree that it seems inevitable. I'm willing to bet that many of these small languages contributed to some of the larger ones. Eventually, languages will become more and more global, and some will have to be left behind. This will occur with more speed as the world becomes more connected.
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#4 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Ásgarðr
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Aut vincere aut mori.
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#5 | |
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
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^ Yes, in practice that's generally what it boils down to...how much social, political and economic power the speakers of the endangered language in question have within their native polity.
Hebrew is the only language to have ever been successfully revived on a large scale--that was through a highly unlikely combination of circumstances though. Quote:
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#6 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS Join Date: May 2005
Location: Belfast
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The Gaeltacht areas of Ireland are where the majority of people speak Irish as a first language...I've only stayed in a Gaeltacht area the once, so I can't greatly say more than that. I know some people take issue with the type of Irish being taught, An Caighdeán Oifigiúil "The Official Standard", made up with the multiple dialects, is in fact killing off most of the dialects.........the dialects do vary quite a bit from region to region.
In Northern Ireland there is even some government funding for Irish schools and what, I think Sinn Fein are pushing for Irish to be made the second language of the North....it's too much of a political tool up here. I imagine there are no major objections to the promotion and funding support of the Irish language in the Republic....the people who have it as a first language obviously want the continued funding, and the rest of the population would probably take pride in the culture and heritage of the language. I don't think it is too much of a tax burden in the South, though maybe Financeguy can answer that better than I did! As for the greater focus of this discussion, while I love the diversity of culture and language in the world, and in a perfect world I would love it to remain...it seems to be inevitable and the natural progression of things that cultures and languages die out. It's been happening for as long as humankind has existed, whether through military or commercial conquest. It's sad but a culture and language are always changing and are never static. |
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#7 | |
The Fly
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: new zealand
Posts: 173
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#8 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2005
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I saw this in national geographic. I think its very said that the tradition of language gets lost somewhere. Its a shame that there isn't more that can be done to preserve language. Particularly, native american which was listed in the western united states. I guess I am a little biased because I have native american in my blood.
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#9 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin
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Quote:
That's very fascinating, considering that I would have trouble to understand someone even from the 17th or 18th century. |
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#10 |
Blue Crack Distributor
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The Heartland (Indiana, USA)
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My mother was descended from Scots-Irish folks who settled in the Rockfish Valley in Virginia during the 1700s. With the effort involved in traveling outside of that valley (over the mountains), up to and including her generation, the residents continue(d) to pronounce the "ou" sound (as in "out", "about", etc.) in the Scottish form, which sounds more like "a-oot" and "a-ba-oot" with a long a sound). None of my cousins use that dialect, so when Mom's generation are all gone (I have one uncle and one aunt left), so will that accent be gone. Which I find very sad!
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#11 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 03:01 AM
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Quote:
As I understand it, this applies to both primary and secondary school teachers (though not university lecturers). As far as I am aware, the Irish exam for teachers is not particularly difficult, but the principle of forcing people to sit the exam is just wrong (except, of course, where they wish to become Irish teachers, but in that case the exam is far too easy, and certainly in no way a guarantee that a person passing it is proficient in the language) It's particularly absurd to have this policy, at a time when there are plenty of well educated immigrants living in Ireland, some of whom would be well suited to teaching but are possibly put off by having to do an exam in a language they have no knowledge of, nor are they likely to ever use in day-to-day life (the Irish pupil-teacher ratio is fairly high, so we need all the good teachers we can get) |
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#12 | ||
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
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Local Time: 03:01 AM
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Quote:
So, for the sake of argument, if Ireland had never been invaded by the Anglo-Normans and had kept its native language, we wouldn't necessarily all be fluent in English, and accordingly we wouldn't necessarily have derived so many benefits from globalisation. Of course I speak here purely of economic benefits, and not necessarily cultural ones. Quote:
By contrast, in Australia, a relatively advanced invading culture met a relatively primitive aboriginal culture and, unfortunately and inevitably, there was only one way to go for the latter. So I'm not surprised to learn that a lot of the aboriginal languages in Australia are dying. |
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#13 |
Vocal parasite
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: 1853
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I'm hardly surprised that Aboriginal languages are topping the list. In New Zealand, I learnt Maori from my first day of primary school at age five. In fact, we even learnt a little bit of very basic Maori beforehand in kindergarten, and some Maori words have passed into English (I still only call sweet potato "kumara" and sometimes get confused when others don't call it that). However, when I moved to Australia ... it was like Aboriginal languages didn't even exist. I wasn't even aware of the wide diversity of Aboriginal languages until I hit grade nine history, and they certainly don't seem to be taught to students. I have seen almost zero interest even expressed in Aboriginal languages, let alone any pressure whatsoever to teach them. Learning Maori in school certainly stimulated an interest in Maori culture - for example, I'm very proud to be from where Te Rauparaha had his base. So I'm sure a similar interest in Aboriginal culture and languages would be stimulated in some students were it taught in Australia like Maori is in New Zealand.
The big problem is really the diversity of Aboriginal languages, i.e. which to teach, but Maori isn't a single static language either (the pronunciation town name "Oamaru" as "Omaru" is a prominent reflection of the North Otago dialect) and yet we don't have a problem teaching it nationwide. That may not be possible with Aboriginal languages, but at least some could be chosen to be taught in certain areas. Just like schools currently choose whether to teach Japanese or French or Indonesian on the basis of what teachers they employ, the same could be done with Aboriginal languages. At least get them out there and breathe some life into them.
__________________
"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard Ian McCulloch the U2 fan: "Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat." "And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth." U2gigs: The most comprehensive U2 setlist database! Gig pictures | Blog |
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#14 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Aug 2005
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In school we learned very little about Aboriginal culture, including their languages - in fact we just learned very basic words that are quite internationally known. It was very depressing and almost made it seem as if there weren't any indigenous people in the area, while there actually still are plenty.
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#15 |
45:33
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
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Things like that grate me as well. We're meant to be multicultural, yet we're denying our own culture... it's annoying when things like the Cronulla Riots happen, when all the white Australians start saying "we grew here, you flew here" when all the 'white Australians' are technically not Australian. We're not the indigenous ones, we did not grow here. It makes me very sad. The only things I have learnt about Aboriginals is basic history in Primary School and watching Rabbit Proof Fence.
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#16 |
Vocal parasite
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: 1853
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What's really sad is that I probably learnt just as much about Aboriginal culture in New Zealand primary school as Aussie kids do here, and that was in addition to weekly lessons (sometimes more frequently) about Maori language and culture. I remember when we learnt about the Dreamtime and some other mythological stuff that appeals to kids, and we even had some Aboriginal dancers visit my school.
Here in Australia, all we ever did was a bit of grade nine History about the colonisation of Australia. It boiled down to: "There were Aborigines. They were pretty in touch with the land and had a shitload of languages. Then along came some white guys. Now let's talk about the first Governor!" ![]()
__________________
"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard Ian McCulloch the U2 fan: "Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat." "And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth." U2gigs: The most comprehensive U2 setlist database! Gig pictures | Blog |
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#17 |
Refugee
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,344
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Age-old languages biting the dust?
Somewhere, Tom Tancredo is praising the Lord. ![]() ![]() |
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#18 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Quote:
![]() There is still a downright sickening amount of racism in my area - I barely hear a good word about Aboriginals, even from people in my circle. When I raised money for an indigenous community last year as a social studies project, more than a few of my peers asked "why?" I think I'm getting a little off the rails here, but I have a huge interest and respect for native cultures in colonized countries, I only began learning basic American history (we learned nothing of it in our awful school, which denied history lessons) because I was interested in the Iroquois Confederacy, and I would find myself preferring to read about their efforts in the American Revolution and 1812 than the Europeans. I think they were one of the great civilizations of the time, yet now there are only several hundred speakers of their native tongues... and they're still one of the larger native groups living from Michigan to New England. Basically, being reminded of news like this makes me sad. |
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#19 |
The Fly
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: at zoo station throwing a brick through a window
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There are many tribes in america who are trying to perserve their languages. There are some elementary schools in Oklahoma who are doing an immersion program where the teachers and students mostly speak Cherokee.
__________________Also, if you have ever traveled to the Navajo reservation in the southwest, it's almost like you're in another country because everywhere you go somebody is speaking in Navajo, even the dj's on the radio only speak Navajo. |
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