equality blooms with spring, pt. II

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by phillyfan26

That's called the Westboro Baptist Church. They're very real, and proud of it. They travel the country to show up at the funerals of homosexuals to stand at the cemetery gates with shirts and signs like these.

I am not a Christian, but it's ridiculous to imply that crowd are representative of Christians in general.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

it just should include gay people as well. in fact, gay people can procreate. you've heard of sperm donation and surrogacy? you've heard of adoption? a gay marriage blends families as well as any straight marriage.

Yes. But it seems to me that this opens up an interesting secular argument against gay marriage.

[diamond]

Oldest US newspaper for gays and lesbians shutting down
Nov 16 12:37 PM US/Eastern
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Washington Blade, the oldest newspaper in the United States for gays and le...

Washington Blade, the oldest newspaper in the United States for gays and lesbians, said Monday it was shutting down.
The announcement of the closure of the Blade, a weekly, and other titles in the Window Media group was made in a posting on micro-blogging service Twitter.

"Washington Blade, like all Window Media publications, is closing today," it said. "Thank you for your support."

Window Media is largest gay and lesbian newspaper publisher in the country.

It claims more than 400,000 readers a week for its publications which include the Southern Voice, Houston Voice, David Atlanta, South Florida Blade and 411 Magazine in addition to Washington Blade.

Washington Blade was founded in 1969 and recently celebrated its 40th anniversary. It was purchased by Window Media in 2001.

Maybe all their readers are here in FYM where the action is.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by diamond

Maybe all their readers are here in FYM where the action is.

Or maybe newspapers in general are having problems because... well they're outdated.

But don't let logic get in your way.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by financeguy

I am not a Christian, but it's ridiculous to imply that crowd are representative of Christians in general.

Is this what you think he was doing?

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by martha

Because that's all you got. Get rid marriage so the homos can't do it. Nice.

After dozens of pages and thousands of words, and many still-unanswered questions, you've decided to stop the debate so you can remain unchallenged.

I do wonder, at times, how you would deal with a conservative kid in your class room.

Cos frankly, all you bring to the forum is sheer bloody rudeness and lack of civility to anyone that doesn't share your far left take on things.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by financeguy

Yes. But it seems to me that this opens up an interesting secular argument against gay marriage.

go for it.

[diamond]

Originally Posted by BVS

Or maybe newspapers in general are having problems because... well they're outdated.

But don't let logic get in your way.

And your logic would say Obama is a bigot for not sending them stimulus money to keep them afloat.



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[BVS]

Originally Posted by diamond

And your logic would say Obama is a bigot for not sending them stimulus money to keep them afloat.



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Um, no...

FAIL

[INDY500]

“Bigotry trumps compassion,’’ wrote commentator Michael Stone, calling the vote “a shameful display of ignorance, bigotry, and hate.’’ In the Maine Campus, the newspaper of the University of Maine, columnist Samantha Hansen denounced the voters who “let hatred, confusion, misinformation, and ignorance emerge victorious over liberty.’’ When will it occur to supporters of same-sex marriage that they do their cause no good by characterizing those who disagree with them as haters, bigots, and ignorant homophobes? It may be emotionally satisfying to despise as moral cripples the majorities who oppose gay marriage. But after going 0 for 31 - after failing to make the case for same-sex marriage even in such liberal and largely gay-friendly states as California, Wisconsin, Oregon, and now Maine - isn’t it time to stop caricaturing their opponents as the equivalent of Jim Crow-era segregationists? Wouldn’t it make more sense to concede that thoughtful voters can have reasonable concerns about gay marriage, concerns that will not be allayed by describing those voters as contemptible troglodytes?

I oppose same-sex marriage for reasons previous columns have explored. I think it would be reckless to jettison the understanding, as old as civilization itself, that society has a deep interest in promoting families anchored by a married man and woman. It seems to me nonsensical to claim that men and women are utterly interchangeable, or to deny that children are likeliest to thrive when they are raised by both a mother and a father. I believe that timeless moral standards must not be casually overturned and that doing so is apt to have unintended and unfortunate consequences. And I am sure that legalizing same-sex wedlock would fuel demands for further radical change - legalizing plural marriage, for example.

But strongly opposing gay marriage doesn’t mean I don’t understand why many people just as strongly favor it. I can sympathize with committed gay and lesbian couples who feel demeaned by the law’s rejection of same-sex marriage or who crave the proof of societal acceptance, the cloak of normalcy, that a marriage license would provide. I don’t regard the redefinition of marriage as a civil rights issue; nor do I buy the argument that laws barring same-sex marriage are comparable to the laws that once barred interracial marriage. But I recognize that many people - sincere and decent people - do. By my lights they are mistaken, not evil.

Why do so many same-sex marriage advocates find it so hard to see marriage traditionalists in the same light?

Gosh, where have I heard all this before? Oh yeah, my posts the past 4 years.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Gosh, where have I heard all this before? Oh yeah, my posts the past 4 years.

Wow, you found a conservative media outlet that agrees with you? Shocker!!! You guys amuse me.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Gosh, where have I heard all this before? Oh yeah, my posts the past 4 years.

you'll note, though, that all the reasons in this article boil down to, "because i said so."

and all of those reasons have been thoroughly -- and i do mean thoroughly -- dissected and dismembered in here.

all of them.

[WCF]

The opposition against gay marriage is wrong on so many levels. It's a moral issue and a religious issue, sure. But it's also a philosophical/political issue (duh, right?) and the way it's been went about is completely un-American.

Anti-gay marriage activists claim that because every state thus far has rejected gay marriage through referendum, that it is proof that it is wrong. But this couldn't be further from the truth. Popularity does NOT equal correctness. In fact, anyone with a general knowledge of American history ought to know that popularity often ISN'T in favor of civil rights. Slavery, denial of womens' suffrage, banning of interracial marriage, segregation, unfair treatment of immigrants, etc all happen BECAUSE of popularity; people wanted those things to happen.

Referendum is still pretty new in our history. It hasn't had much of a chance to prove itself in the civil rights arena, but let me just say that it is a walking contradiction! When the public's prejudice is the cause of a problem, why would you take the issue up the public rather than the courts or the legislature?! Just imagine if referendum had been utilized on the issues of slavery or segregation. It would have been ages before minorities in the south would achieve equality! In fact, who knows if it ever would have happened?

If the Founding Fathers were alive and well today, they would be outraged by this. Sadly they are not, so they are just rolling in their graves at how we massacred their checks and balances and completely ignored the aspect of majority tyranny. Just think: in California, people elect every branch of government, even the judicial. In addition, we have the power to directly legislate via referendums. Where are the checks and balances? What stops the mob mentality of prejudice?

Schwarzenegger and Obama both viewed marriage in the traditional, "man and woman" sense. Yet neither of them supported Prop 8 because of how horrendous it was on a political level! Bill Clinton, who signed into law the DOMA, has flipped his position on gay marriage as well. Even Bob Barr, the key Republican legislator involved with the DOMA, no longer supports it on political grounds. People are starting to realize how wrong this sort of legislation is on all sorts of grounds, even despite their traditional views.

And what about our history regarding civil rights? Does anyone not see that this is just going to be another grueling fight for equality? Where's the sense in looking at our past, feeling guilty about our actions, and then repeating them again?! Why do we even teach history if Americans are not going to pay attention? We can't even condemn our forefathers for their bigotry anymore as we would be hypocrites if we did. History is here for us to learn from, not for us to repeat.

And lastly, how about the propaganda that's being fed to us? Gay marriage being taught in schools? Someone tell me exactly HOW that would even happen if gay marriage were to be passed. And then tell me why that argument isn't just emotionally-driven rather than logically. What about the widespread, completely false notion that churches would be forced to perform marriages? Or the notion that gay couples would invade and destroy all of our families? And you know what's the worst part? That Americans actually buy this stuff!!

Gay marriage opposition has not just been morally horrendous. It has been completely un-American in that it is a mockery of our political system as well as a violation of our most sacred principles (the spirit of separation of church and state, checks and balances, no tyranny of the majority, etc). It is the epitome of ignorance as it ignores and reverses our long history regarding civil rights. Not only is it ignorant in the historical sense, but it's insulted our intelligence as Americans as well with it's blatantly false propaganda.

If Americans are going to be taken seriously at all, we've got to do something about this atrocity. I don't care how insignificant you think this issue is, the fact that we can't even fix something this simple and obvious really says something about us.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

you'll note, though, that all the reasons in this article boil down to, "because i said so."

and all of those reasons have been thoroughly -- and i do mean thoroughly -- dissected and dismembered in here.

It's just a flesh wound !!

[diamond]

Originally Posted by BVS

Um, no...

FAIL

in the real world, people would eat you alive.
stay here where it's comfortable for you.



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[BVS]

Originally Posted by diamond

in the real world, people would eat you alive.
stay here where it's comfortable for you.



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I survive in the real world very well thank you... and when I get offered such poor leaps of logic I shrug them off and wish them a good day.

Mainly because I feel sorry for them.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by diamond

in the real world, people would eat you alive.
stay here where it's comfortable for you.



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There are a lot more bigots in the real world than here, that's true.

[phillyfan26]

Originally Posted by financeguy

I am not a Christian, but it's ridiculous to imply that crowd are representative of Christians in general.

I completely agree. I was purely informing him since he appeared to not be familiar with them due to his implication that it was some sort of Photoshop.

The Westboro Baptist Church in no way reflects the views of anyone other than themselves.

[phillyfan26]

Originally Posted by diamond

in the real world, people would eat you alive.
stay here where it's comfortable for you.



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Do you think people appreciate it when you attempt (and fail, but attempt nonetheless) to be condescending like this? I don't know what makes you think you're so much better than everyone else.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by financeguy

AEON, can you clear some space in your message box dude.

I was traveling. Done