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#1001 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,036
Local Time: 10:15 PM
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Quote:
while i fully understand the appeal of fundamentalism, what does this do to explain yet another incident of a deeply religious and homophobic politician having a carnival-like secret sexual life? and why does this continue to repeat itself, no matter the context, no matter the politician? |
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#1002 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 09:15 PM
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Quote:
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#1003 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 28,459
Local Time: 09:15 PM
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San Francisco, California (CNN) -- They've been committed to each other for eight years and have four sons together, but there's a component missing in one Berkeley, California, couple's life that's out of reach for them: getting married.
Kristin Perry and Sandra Stier's partnership is one that has taken center stage because of the ongoing debate on same-sex marriage in California. On Monday, the spotlight will be even brighter, when a trial challenging California's Proposition 8, which bans same-sex marriage, begins in U. S. District Court in San Francisco. Demonstrators are expected to be out in force. There also may be a camera in the courtroom if the ballot initiative's sponsors fail in their 11th hour bid to convince the U.S. Supreme Court to keep it out. Perry and Stier, along with Jeffrey Zarrillo and Paul Katami, of Los Angeles, are the two couples at the heart of the case, arguing that California's ban on gay marriage is unconstitutional. They are asking Chief Judge Vaughn R. Walker to issue an injunction against Proposition 8's enforcement. The case will likely head to the U.S. Supreme Court no matter what the outcome. It is expected to set legal precedents that will shape society for years to come and result in a landmark court decision that settles whether Americans can marry people of the same sex. In legal circles and across the Internet, it has been dubbed this generation's Brown v. Board of Education, the case that led to the Supreme Court decision that outlawed segregation in schools. Some say it could be the biggest ruling since Roe v. Wade, which tackled abortion. It also closely echoes the Supreme Court case that overturned bans on interracial marriage. The debate over Proposition 8 has been fueled by emotions on both sides. For Perry and Stier, Zarrillo and Katami and their supporters, the issue is simple. They say the case boils down to nothing more than equal protection under the law and that their sexual orientation should not prevent them from getting married. "It does not weaken the fabric of our communities to grant them these basic familial rights -- it strengthens them," said Chad Griffin, President of the American Foundation for Equal Rights, when the lawsuit was announced in May. "It does not undermine marriage to extend to these loving couples -- it affirms it." "This is one of the threshold civil rights issues of our generation," he said. "Justice is on our side and we're about to reclaim it." Representing them are two high-powered attorneys, Theodore B. Olson and David Boies. They're an unlikely pair -- former courtroom adversaries best known for being on opposing sides of the "hanging chad" dispute of the 2000 presidential election in Florida. Olson, a staunch political conservative who defended the government's positions as solicitor general, was a choice that surprised many supporters of the case for same-sex marriage. He said there's nothing inconsistent about him fighting for the rights of same-sex couples. "They call it a teaching moment these days," he said. "This gives us an opportunity to explain how wrong it has been to deny rights to individuals on that basis." Republican California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and the state's Democratic Attorney General Jerry Brown are defendants in the lawsuit because of their positions in California government. However, both have said they would not defend the suit. Brown filed a legal motion saying he agreed with the position advanced by Olson and Boies. Schwarzenegger has taken no position. Andrew Pugno, a lawyer for an organization called Protect Marriage, the group that came up with Proposition 8, said he believes the issue was solved when the people of California made their voices heard in the voting booth. "Seven million Californians voted to preserve or restore what marriage has meant since the beginning of time," he said. "If they're not permitted to do something as basic as that, then there's something, really something, wrong with our system." For Pugno and supporters on his side of the issue, keeping the definition of marriage as a union between a man and a woman is what makes sense. "Marriage legally and socially has always been a social public institution that affects far more than the adults involved," he said. "We are taking a position that society has a very good reason for limiting marriage the way it does. ... The relationship of a man and woman bears a relationship to child-rearing that no other relationship can duplicate." The Proposition 8 vote is part of a long line of seesaw rulings, court cases, debates and protests in California over the issue. After California's Legislature approved same-sex marriages, voters took to the polls in November 2008; a slim majority -- 52 percent -- approved of banning the marriages. In May 2009, California's highest court upheld the ban, but allowed about 18,000 unions performed before the ban to remain valid. For same-sex couples, especially those who did not get married before the ban, the ruling was hardly comforting. Several liberal celebrity activists, led by former director and actor Rob Reiner, have bankrolled the first federal challenge to the voter-approved ban on gay marriage. The nation's eyes will be on the court's eventual ruling. And, if the Supreme Court doesn't intervene, court-watchers also will be able to follow the testimony, which will be aired each day on YouTube hours after it occurs. Olson and Boies said they believe the case is simple based on their reading of the U.S. Constitution. "The first thing to think about is the right to marry is a fundamental right in the United States," Olsen said. "It's a right protected by the Constitution. The Supreme Court has held over and over again that it may be one of the most fundamental rights to unite with the person you love to form a partnership." For Boies, the case follows a sad tradition in American history: the denial of rights to people because certain groups blindly see them as undeserving. "This lawsuit is about the courts saying no matter how blind people may be, the Constitution guarantees that everyone deserves the equal rights that every human being is entitled to," Boies said. "And we go to court because that is the place those equal rights have been established time and again over the last 100 years." |
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#1004 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,036
Local Time: 10:15 PM
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this case has me nervous. i don't know that there are 5 votes on this conservative court.
still, good to get all the arguments aired out in the open so everyone can see the total and utter bankruptcy of the anti-equality crowd. |
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#1005 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 10:15 PM
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Quote:
For all their yammering about Bibles and save the children from tey gays, the opponents of gay marriage have never had a good legal argument and still do not. That is why they scream about "judicial activism" - ie. the term used for rulings you do not like. It is sad that the SCOTUS is such a politicized body. Although you have individual justices on the Canadian Supreme Court whose decisions tend to lean in one direction or another, it is infinitely more balanced and frankly, almost apolitical compared to the US. And that is how it should be, and it would give people far more faith in the legal system. |
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#1006 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 09:15 PM
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#1007 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 10:15 PM
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This piece by Ted Olson, one of the most prominent CONSERVATIVE legal experts, and who served under both Reagan and Bush, is good reading by everyone.
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#1008 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,036
Local Time: 10:15 PM
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rock solid conservative Ted Olsen lays it all out:
Quote:
i just wish the anti-equality folks in here would be more honest about it. so let me ask, how does society benefit by demeaning homosexuals? you know who i'm looking at. |
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#1009 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,036
Local Time: 10:15 PM
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ah ... beat me to it ...
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#1010 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 08:15 PM
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Quote:
-- only sexists speak ill of modern feminism. -- Only those that hate could oppose hate-crime legislation -- Only racists and xenophobes are for controlling our borders. -- Only homophobes oppose same-sex marriage. We get the shtick. |
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#1011 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,602
Local Time: 07:15 PM
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Olson gave the opening arguments today.
It would be nice to able to watch it on YouTube. I think the Supreme Court will decide that by Wednesday. I also heard on Public Radio today the Olson has said he thinks if this ever gets to the Supreme Court, he can count to 5. (you may recall he did that for W in 2000) |
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#1012 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,036
Local Time: 10:15 PM
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#1013 |
Sizzlin' Sicilian
Forum Administrator Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 71,046
Local Time: 06:15 PM
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Over 1000. Feel free to start a new thread.
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