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#721 |
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Join Date: May 2006
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Nathan mentioned something about the bond between the child and mother in the womb. It's purely a physical bond, one of physical nourishment and growth. Psychologically, it doesn't mean anything. An adoptive parent would form just as strong a bond with an infant as the biological parent. It's a proven fact. Look it up.
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#722 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 07:48 AM
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happy thanksgiving everyone.
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#723 | ||||||
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,443
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#724 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,039
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i'll keep it simple for you nathan. lesbians and gay men make families that are every bit as good as straight families. the problems of fatherlessness that afflict the straight community are a problem in the straight community. it does not affect gay parents, nor does it affect their children. you have yet to isolate a single characteristic or parenting technique that would be lacking in a gay household. your assertions about the timelessness of gender roles and their unbearable importance to the raising of children do not play out in reality. not only are gays and lesbians able to conduct successful marriages, they are able to be successful parents, and new evidence suggests that children may do better with two lesbian mothers. fatherlessness in the straight community is a separate issue altogether, and it has less to do with lacking a uniquely male influence in a household than it does with the pressures of being a single parent and the *absence* of said father. children of gay kids are not deprived of a particular parent, do not feel abandoned, do not long and pine for said parent in their lives. your posts also beg the question of just what reaction you were looking for when you bring up sloppy notions of gender essentialism in a thread about gay equality. |
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#725 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,443
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#726 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
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#727 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
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#728 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,443
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It proves the point I'm making -- boys need older men as role models. Nowhere is that more important than in the family. The schools cited are forced to compensate for the lack of a father figure.
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#729 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Everglades
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But now you've backtracked from "fathers" to "older men" which could easily constitute a brother, grandfather, uncle, neighbor, cub scout leader, clergy member, coach, etc...
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#730 |
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
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So as a consequence of negligent straight men, we will not allow gay men, who by the way would provide two (2) father figures, to marry? Say what?
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#731 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Everglades
Posts: 4,740
Local Time: 10:48 AM
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^I believe he's referring to lesbian relationships here.
How about if we make rules that female couples may only adopt females and male couples may only adopt males. Can gay marriage be legalized if this fantasyland promise will be fulfilled? ![]() |
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#732 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
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what's cool is that if we adopt, we'll go for boys (brothers would be great); and if we do IFV, you have a much higher chance of having a boy for a variety of interesting reasons. it's just really awful, considering i lived in inner-city DC (though rapidly gentrifying) for over 4 years and saw first-hand the terrible effects of fatherlessness and overwhelmed single mothers (as well as a shocking lack of basic parenting skills). it is an enormous social problem, and these children do desperately need their fathers, but this has NOTHING to do with gay families, and though we're backtracking to say, "hey, i was only saying that kids do better with their fathers than without," in the context of this thread, it's intentional. |
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#733 | |
Blue Crack Distributor
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
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What else do fatherless poor boys have in common? Mothers who are struggling, overworked, constantly stressed, and for whom proper parenting often falls by the wayside. So, which is more likely to adversely affect a boy, lacking a father in the family, or having the mother who is present not be an effective parent due to the many economic stresses she faces? I've read many studies contending that it's the latter. Not magazine articles, actual studies. And because it can't be said enough, this whole child/parenting issue is a red herring to the actual gay marriage discussion. |
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#734 | |
Blue Crack Distributor
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
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And lesbian mothers are completely cut off from men who could provide a male presence to their sons? Hardly. Not that it's relevant anyway, as shown by my previous post. |
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#735 | |||
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,443
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#736 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,443
Local Time: 02:48 PM
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Newsweek's statistics were clear. The President's statistics were clear. Boys need fathers. In a vacuum, others will step in, but at great cost, as the article makes clear. Mentors should not have to compensate for the lack of a father.
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#737 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
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Local Time: 02:48 PM
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#738 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
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great. now we both know that you've never answered my question because you "don't need to." |
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#739 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
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I've documented it several times over, you, Diamond, INDY, AEON, have all changed your argument from time to time in order to counteract the specific points, but contradicting any core beliefs. Which leads me believe this has nothing to do with any kind of principal for any of you. You ask who cares what you believe? So if it's not about what you believe then it's not about some type of "sanctity of marriage". And if you believe in this cohabitation argument "increasingly defining mark" then you admit that marriage is a constantly evolving definition. So this shatters all of your previous supposed beliefs. Complete and utter bullshit!!! |
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#740 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 34,039
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your experience, and Varitek's, do not apply here. what matters is Newsweek, Freud, and Obama. |
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