equality blooms with spring, pt. II
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clarityat3am
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ha.
AEON
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I believe most people thought the same thing in 1909...not knowing that their century was about to begin a bloodbath nobody could have imagined. The atheist Ultra Left would murder over 20 million and the occult-led Ultra Right (Nazism) would also take over 10 million lives...
Forward is a question of perception - and from my vanatage point - it seems many are rushing "forward" off the cliff.
BVS
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Once again you show your true colors 
phillyfan26
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Jesus Christ, you're a smart man, but this is idiotic.
Your implication here, I imagine, is that "modernism" leads to death. Frankly, though, there was nothing exceptionally different about the philosophy or history that led up to these events. The seeds that led to Nazism were, essentially, romanticist in nature--that is, nationalist references to perceived "Germanic freedom" to replace old overtures to ancient Rome--coupled with a kind of arrogance and ethnic superiority/intolerance that were not unusual for its time nor its past. And, taking a look back at the last 2,000 years of history or so, you can draw an uninterrupted line of incessant war in Europe, many of which were waged solely on egotistical motivations from detached leadership. If anything, I'd say that these bloodbaths occurred not from some kind of "new Left/new Right," but from the fact that the "old" world had acquired some very "new" toys that could cause some very unprecedented amounts of damage, culminating in the atomic bomb. In other words, our truly "modern" world is post-WWII in nature, as the real paradigm shift is that, rather than having a blase attitude to war, we now, in a sharp departure from history, actively seek to prevent it from happening in the first place.
History lessons aside, I'm really not sure what any of this has to do with gay rights or marriage, aside from reminding me that old world notions of superiority and intolerance appear to have not faded away with the rest of it.
U2DMfan
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I am just waiting for Irvine to start talking about healthy lesbian sex again.
I want to hear about their eating habits.
I want to hear about their eating habits.
Vincent Vega
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Quite frankly, either your bible studies or your school did an extremely poor job on your history classes. But it's always interesting to see that people still fall for the occultism bullshit and easily ignore the makeup of European society, which was deeply rooted in the several Christian branches. Which also provided the basis for making out the Jews as enemy number one so easily, along with Gays, Sinti & Roma etc.
AEON
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Nothing.
I was pointing out that the Left's view that they are the ideology that is always moving "forward" or that they are "progressive" is not in itself either true - or necessarily a good thing if it is true.
I do not feel gay marriage will lead to the death of millions...just for the record.
AEON
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Well, we do not cover WWII very much in Bible studies. Being a military officer, I do enjoy reading a bit of history, especially military history. In most of the books (and on the History Channel, Discovery type of shows) it indicates that the leaders of the Nazi party (and especially Himmler and the SS) were deeply involved in the occult - trying to forge a new religion around Hitler.
If this is wrong, I guess I "fell" for the deception...
Just as the Left's abandonment of faith means that it can no longer effectively contribute to religious discourse--thus allowing the Right to set the agenda--such also is the case for the Right's embrace of anti-intellectualism. Thus, the present state of Western civilization.
AEON
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I actually agree. Believe it or not, most of my battles outside of this forum are with the Right (especially Fundamentalist Christians) -- that science is beautiful and actually proclaims God's majesty, that "literal" translations of the Bible are not entirely possible, and that Philosophy is nothing to fear - but embrace.
Vincent Vega
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It's true that the occult played a role, also the Nazis trying to revive images of the ancient Germanic religions. However, in the greater society that was hardly present, and with that they wouldn't have garnered much support from the public. It was limited to some groups within the SS, which in itself was rather a limited group of the very blinded. But those you could have told pretty much anything and they would have fallen for it. They were extremely deceptive. Had you told them Hitler was the second coming of Christ, I would be very positive they would have viewed themselves as the legions of God. It is questionable how much for example Himmler believed in it himself. And the Nazi elite was pretty much diverse as well. Hitler wasn't especially religious, maybe even non-religious. Goebbels and his wife remained believers in Christianity.
Overall, the Third Reich was neither greatly motivated by religion nor by non-religion. However, hadn't it been for the great anti-semitism throughout Europe, enforced over the centuries especially by the Catholic church, the Holocaust couldn't have happened as easily.
It is just foolish to either blame religion or atheism for any evil in the world. Humans are able of evil, and that ability is astonishing. But it is not grounded in faith.
Well, back to topic I guess.
martha
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So homos getting married leads to...Nazis?
And you still wonder why people get pissed at you? Jesus, AEON.
I'm glad you finally abandoned your "gays getting married = animals getting married" argument you used several years ago until everyone told you to shut up. But now the "gays getting married= Nazis" argument is even more insane and more desperate.
martha
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Maybe you missed this question.
AEON
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Martha, perhaps you missed the point. My comments were directed to BVS (not only him, but the Left in general) using the word "forward" to describe his views.
Perhaps you also missed this post as well...
AEON said:
Vincent Vega
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Though the Nazi movement was not exactly Left nor forward.
martha
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I saw all that. But you brought it up. In this thread.
martha
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The Nazis were Left when it suits people to think they were. Like when you compare the records of the Nazis and the Left on gay rights, for instance. Then the comparison is completely valid.
Otherwise, what the point be of bringing up Nazis in a thread about gay marriage? What would the point be at all?
deep
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he did call Nazis - Ultra Right
AEON
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Thank you for being the one person that seemed to notice that...
Vincent Vega
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Oh, slipped the mind over time. But still, forward? Not really. Maybe in their very own way.
BVS
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Oh I noticed it, but it was still just a shit analogy. Probably one of your worse posts.
DrTeeth
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He also used the terms atheist and occult, implying there's some sort of relevant connection.
AEON
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AEON
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Yes, that was intentional. However, it was not to say that atheism or the occult lead directly to mass murder - but only that a "forward" move away from a Christian based establishment will not necessarily result in utopia.
Vincent Vega
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Was that even said or implied by anyone? Don't think the argument was framed such black and white by anyone here.
BVS
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What supposed "Christian based establishment" are you talking about?
martha
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Have there been Christian-based utopias?
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