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Old 11-12-2009, 07:28 AM   #781
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The social conservatives need to find new spokespeople. The people speaking on your side are just ridiculously(I don't know how to say it nicely) stupid:

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Old 11-12-2009, 08:54 AM   #782
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Actually she was doing ok until she turned the mic off.

Larry King knew the answer to the question, it had to do with her tape she made when she was a minor for her bf at the time-and Larry looked bad there.

Larry King came across as a dirty old man, and she came across as a quitter when she abruptly left the interview.

<>
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:10 AM   #783
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Actually she wasn't.

Larry was doing his job, he's an entertainer and interviewer, she was stupid if she thought he wouldn't ask tough questions, and he was right the "why" was not part of the conditions.

She has one thing in common with her hero, they are both quitters...
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:36 AM   #784
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Actually she was doing ok until she turned the mic off.

Larry King knew the answer to the question, it had to do with her tape she made when she was a minor for her bf at the time-and Larry looked bad there.

Larry King came across as a dirty old man, and she came across as a quitter when she abruptly left the interview.

<>


but, clearly, this all makes her eminently qualified to become the symbol of the anti-gay movement.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:51 AM   #785
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but, clearly, this all makes her eminently qualified to become the symbol of the anti-gay movement.
thank you for your somewhat rational response.

larry king is creepy.

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Old 11-12-2009, 09:52 AM   #786
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larry king is creepy.
there's a news flash
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:40 AM   #787
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why, oh why, do things like this have to happen?

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Catholic Church gives D.C. ultimatum
Same-sex marriage bill, as written, called a threat to social service contracts
By Tim Craig and Michelle Boorstein
Thursday, November 12, 2009

The Catholic Archdiocese of Washington said Wednesday that it will be unable to continue the social service programs it runs for the District if the city doesn't change a proposed same-sex marriage law, a threat that could affect tens of thousands of people the church helps with adoption, homelessness and health care.

Under the bill, headed for a D.C. Council vote next month, religious organizations would not be required to perform or make space available for same-sex weddings. But they would have to obey city laws prohibiting discrimination against gay men and lesbians.

Fearful that they could be forced, among other things, to extend employee benefits to same-sex married couples, church officials said they would have no choice but to abandon their contracts with the city.

"If the city requires this, we can't do it," Susan Gibbs, spokeswoman for the archdiocese, said Wednesday. "The city is saying in order to provide social services, you need to be secular. For us, that's really a problem."

Several D.C. Council members said the Catholic Church is trying to erode the city's long-standing laws protecting gay men and lesbians from discrimination.

The clash escalates the dispute over the same-sex marriage proposal between the council and the archdiocese, which has generally stayed out of city politics.

Catholic Charities, the church's social services arm, is one of dozens of nonprofit organizations that partner with the District. It serves 68,000 people in the city, including the one-third of Washington's homeless people who go to city-owned shelters managed by the church. City leaders said the church is not the dominant provider of any particular social service, but the church pointed out that it supplements funding for city programs with $10 million from its own coffers.

"All of those services will be adversely impacted if the exemption language remains so narrow," Jane G. Belford, chancellor of the Washington Archdiocese, wrote to the council this week.

The church's influence seems limited. In separate interviews Wednesday, council member Mary M. Cheh (D-Ward 3) referred to the church as "somewhat childish." Another council member, David A. Catania (I-At Large), said he would rather end the city's relationship with the church than give in to its demands.

"They don't represent, in my mind, an indispensable component of our social services infrastructure," said Catania, the sponsor of the same-sex marriage bill and the chairman of the Health Committee.

The standoff appears to be among the harshest between a government and a faith-based group over the rights of same-sex couples. Advocates for same-sex couples said they could not immediately think of other places where a same-sex marriage law had set off a break with a major faith-based provider of social services.

The council is expected to pass the same-sex marriage bill next month, but the measure continues to face strong opposition from a number of groups that are pushing for a referendum on the issue.

The archdiocese's statement follows a vote Tuesday by the council's Committee on Public Safety and the Judiciary to reject an amendment that would have allowed individuals, based on their religious beliefs, to decline to provide services for same-sex weddings.

"Lets say an individual caterer is a staunch Christian and someone wants him to do a cake with two grooms on top," said council member Yvette M. Alexander (D-Ward 6), the sponsor of the amendment. "Why can't they say, based on their religious beliefs, 'I can't do something like that'?"

After the vote, the archdiocese sent out a statement accusing the council of ignoring the right of religious freedom. Gibbs said Wednesday that without Alexander's amendment and other proposed changes, the measure has too narrow an exemption. She said religious groups that receive city funds would be required to give same-sex couples medical benefits, open adoptions to same-sex couples and rent a church hall to a support group for lesbian couples.

Peter Rosenstein of the Campaign for All D.C. Families accused the church of trying to "blackmail the city."

"The issue here is they are using public funds, and to allow people to discriminate with public money is unacceptable," Rosenstein said.

Rosenstein and other gay rights activists have strong support on the council. Council member Phil Mendelson (D-At Large), chairman of the judiciary committee, said the council "will not legislate based on threats."

"The problem with the individual exemption is anybody could discriminate based on their assertion of religious principle," Mendelson said. "There were many people back in the 1950s and '60s, during the civil rights era, that said separation of the races was ordained by God."

Catania, who said he has been the biggest supporter of Catholic Charities on the council, said he is baffled by the church's stance. From 2006 through 2008, Catania said, Catholic Charities received about $8.2 million in city contracts, as well as several hundred thousand dollars' worth this year through his committee.

"If they find living under our laws so oppressive that they can no longer take city resources, the city will have to find an alternative partner to step in to fill the shoes," Catania said. He also said Catholic Charities was involved in only six of the 102 city-sponsored adoptions last year.

Terry Lynch, head of the Downtown Cluster of Congregations, said he did not know of any other group in the city that was making such a threat.

"I've not seen any spillover into programming. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen if [the bill] passes," he said.

Cheh said she hopes the Catholic Church will reconsider its stance.

"Are they really going to harm people because they have a philosophical disagreement with us on one issue?" Cheh asked. "I hope, in the silver light of day, when this passes, because it will pass, they will not really act on this threat."


i mean ... really? has it come to this for churches? you're going to punish the homeless if gay people are granted civil marriage, a right that will not in any way affect the Catholic Church, and just so you can score some political points?

i think this gets to the heart of some of the problems. what will happen when same-sex marriage is legal is that it will be illegal to discriminate against gay people if you are an organization that takes public money. gay people will be as protected as blacks, asians, jews, the handicapped, etc. i guess for some, that's a bad thing?

it boggles the mind.
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:43 AM   #788
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It's becoming more and more difficult for me to hide from my family that I'm not Catholic like they are.
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:44 AM   #789
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there's a news flash
i didn't realize he was that bad until i saw him salivating then feigning amazement when called out.

<>
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:52 AM   #790
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how ridiculous. so because a law might be passed allowing a group of people to do something that doesn't affect them at all, they're going to close homeless shelters? forgive me for being naive, but i don't imagine a homeless person seeking shelter at the church will be like "thanks for the bed, guys. and hey, while i'm here, can you marry my boyfriend and i?"

i just don't see why tolerance is so difficult. it's not like they're saying not only do you have to employ and give benefits to homosexuals, but you also have to allow them to have sex by the holy water. i'm a christian, but when i read things like this, it makes me sad to see such intolerance. whatever happened to love thy neighbour as thyself? i mean, if you think homosexuality is wrong and immoral, that's your own opinion. but that's got nothing to do with working for a church, or providing social services to those in need.
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Old 11-12-2009, 11:00 AM   #791
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Originally Posted by diamond View Post
Actually she was doing ok until she turned the mic off.

Larry King knew the answer to the question, it had to do with her tape she made when she was a minor for her bf at the time-and Larry looked bad there.

Larry King came across as a dirty old man, and she came across as a quitter when she abruptly left the interview.

<>
She was actually 20 years old when that tape was made and it wasn't the only one. The guy she sent them to has confirmed her age at the time. The "I was a minor" defense is being used to try keep the tape from leaking. That Disney girl Vanessa Hudgens did the same thing and it turned out she was actually 18 or 19 when her nude pics were taken.
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Old 11-12-2009, 11:03 AM   #792
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She was actually 20 years old when that tape was made and it wasn't the only one. The guy she sent them to has confirmed her age at the time. The "I was a minor" defense is being used to try keep the tape from leaking. That Disney girl Vanessa Hudgens did the same thing and it turned out she was actually 18 or 19 when her nude pics were taken.
That fact I did not know, Larry came across as a sicko.
It should cause his wife Shawn pause esp with them having a few kids together.

<>
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Old 11-12-2009, 11:56 AM   #793
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larry king is creepy.

<>
And she's an ignorant opportunist hypocrite what's your point?
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Old 11-12-2009, 11:57 AM   #794
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it boggles the mind.
But it's not about hate...
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:34 PM   #795
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how ridiculous. so because a law might be passed allowing a group of people to do something that doesn't affect them at all, they're going to close homeless shelters? forgive me for being naive, but i don't imagine a homeless person seeking shelter at the church will be like "thanks for the bed, guys. and hey, while i'm here, can you marry my boyfriend and i?"

i just don't see why tolerance is so difficult. it's not like they're saying not only do you have to employ and give benefits to homosexuals, but you also have to allow them to have sex by the holy water. i'm a christian, but when i read things like this, it makes me sad to see such intolerance. whatever happened to love thy neighbour as thyself? i mean, if you think homosexuality is wrong and immoral, that's your own opinion. but that's got nothing to do with working for a church, or providing social services to those in need.
In summary:

"WE WILL NOT BE IGNORED!"

It has nothing to do with gays, it has to do with the fact that they've taken a stance on gays. They don't give two fucks about gay rights, they just care about how seriously people take their stances.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:00 PM   #796
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Quote:
Gay Catholic priest getting married

By BRYN WEESE, SUN MEDIA

TORONTO -- Canada's first openly gay Catholic priest is to mark another milestone.

Father Karl Clemens is getting married Saturday to his partner Nick.

He says he'll be the first man of the Catholic cloth to enter into a same-sex marriage in Canada, and maybe even in North America.

"I'm not doing it to start a revolution, but if people want to exercise their right, and so forth, that's terrific," Clemens told Sun Media yesterday.

"I feel very strongly about it.

"I'm leading the way, or pioneering, as it were, in something that I think is very important," Clemens said. "It's a human right."

Clemens, who is approaching 70 and who retired from the Kingston, Ont. diocese after serving there for 33 years, moved to Toronto more than a decade ago to work in, and advocate for, the city's gay village.

Regarding his same-sex marriage, he's prepared for a backlash from the church and some of its followers, as he was when he came out of the closet in 2005.

"There will be Catholics who feel, because of their lack of understanding, that this is a very wrong thing and therefore will not be pleased," Clemens said.

"But those are consequences we have to be willing to deal with because we feel strongly about the issue at hand, which is the right to be able to enter into same-sex marriages."

Clemens and his partner will be married Saturday afternoon in the couple's home.
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:51 PM   #797
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I think this means he will soon be an ex-Catholic priest.
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Old 11-12-2009, 08:34 PM   #798
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From another thread:

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In another thread - I would like to understand 1) where this standard comes from (why 2? Why not 9 or zero?) - and how you define "adult" (18 years old, 30, maturity test, SAT, as soon as reproduction is possible...)
I've spoke quite a bit about my ideas on polygamy, and I'm pretty sure I spoke about it with you in fact. I have a hard time believing that a consentual marriage can be made between multiple partners. When you consent are you consenting to just the man, or the man and the woman he's married to, how do you prove consent to the future women? Can the woman divorce one of the other women out of the marriage if her children's lives are in danger? How do you deal with divorce rights?

I think just from a legal standpoint, it's almost impossible. So the moral objections don't even really matter in a discussion like this.

Well I'm not sure why age is a question, we already have definitions throughout this country as to what a consenting adult is...



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It "seems" the freedom you speak of does have some limits and I would like to know what they are and why....in another thread....
How do you define freedom? Does freedom mean life without law?

If you're saying the freedom I speak of has limits because I don't want to allow polygamy then I say IF there is a possible way to truly make a consenting relationship, and find a legal way to create an equal relationship then it should be allowed. I just don't see how that's possible.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:17 PM   #799
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From another thread:

Well I'm not sure why age is a question, we already have definitions throughout this country as to what a consenting adult is...
I guess you are saying this should be left to the states, to determine at what age the "human right" of marriage can be granted. Is that correct?



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...IF there is a possible way to truly make a consenting relationship, and find a legal way to create an equal relationship then it should be allowed...
Okay - that answers my question.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:28 PM   #800
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I guess you are saying this should be left to the states, to determine at what age the "human right" of marriage can be granted. Is that correct?
Well to be honest, I haven't ever given the age of consent too much thought as far as state vs federal...

It is arbritrary, but it is needed.

I think currently it ranges from 16 to 18, correct? PERSONALLY I think 16 is young

But I think if there are 16 year olds who can actually prove financial independence then they should have that right.

I also believe if you can serve your country, vote, or get married at 18 then you should be able to drink. For we all know those things can be stressful

But that's another thread. AEON between you and I we could do spin off threads all night long
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