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#541 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
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Quote:
![]() You obviously didn't understand the question. I want an example from the Bible of everything you celebrate, get in contract with, or any other conservative issue. I want you to be consistant with the Bible in every single issue you put forth. Otherwise you are just picking and choosing. I want examples of denying rights. I want examples of torture. I want examples of birthdays. I want examples of lease or mortgage contracts. Diamond, guess who challenged Jesus about his knowledge of the word... Given your previous posts, I don't think challenging folks about their knowledge of scripture is a wise thing... |
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#542 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
But then the question becomes, why do you believe that "separate but equal" works? |
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#543 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
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God gave us free will. So why shouldn't America?
If it doesn't harm another, why are we denying freedom? Have you conservatives lost your way? |
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#544 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,603
Local Time: 05:59 PM
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Is Ted Olson a consecrative?
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#545 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 06:59 PM
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#546 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
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Quote:
And, more importantly, would you vote for something like Proposition 8 simply because of the wording, or is the idea behind it the more important thing here? I'm genuinely curious. |
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#547 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 06:59 PM
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![]() Quote:
I gave you an example of how Christ attended a marriage between a man and a woman and now you're trying to change the subject. <> |
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#548 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
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![]() Quote:
It's a term in contradiction w itself. The word marriage is spoken for already, and it means: 2 hetrosexuals of opposite sex who want to unionize/solemenize their relationship. You need people of opposite sexes to even approach the meaning of the word marriage. If Prop 8 were worded as :a marriage shall be between a man and a woman and gay partnerships can have similar benefits that men and women have who cohabitate, I would be ok with that. <> |
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#549 | |
Blue Crack Distributor
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,743
Local Time: 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Gay partnership - two gay people forming a business, or taking part in some sort of economic venture? Gay union - an organization that protects the rights of gay workers? See, the problem with your suggestion is that these labels do not come close to actually describing the relationship that the two parties involved want to have, and what they want to communicate to the world about their commitment to each other. The word that best describes that sort of relationship is - wait for it - marriage. It's very simple, really. And just because you're uncomfortable with those uppity gays co-opting your word doesn't mean that you or other heteros have exclusive rights to it. Several states have already decided that, and I have confidence that within the next decade or so, the rest will follow suit. |
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#550 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
I don't get the fear that marriage is somehow devalued if them there gays are allowed to do it too. If Fred and Erma down the street have a shitty-assed marriage, does that mean your marriage is shitty-assed too? If not, why the hell not? |
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#551 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
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#552 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,562
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![]() The museums will be full of interesting quotes and photos, won't they? |
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#553 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004
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#554 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 11:59 AM
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Quote:
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." Mark 9:43-48: And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched." Luke 16:24: "And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame |
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#555 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
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Quote:
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#556 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Ásgarðr
Posts: 11,790
Local Time: 08:59 PM
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Quote:
"And David knew that the LORD had established him as king of Israel and had exalted his rule for the sake of his people Israel. David took more concubines and wives in Jerusalem after he had come from Hebron, and more sons and daughters were born to him in Jerusalem." - 2 Samuel 5:12-13 "[King Solomon] had seven hundred wives of princely rank and three hundred concubines..." - 1 Kings 11:3 Leviticus' only restriction on polygamy? "While your wife is still living you shall not marry her sister as her rival; for thus you would disgrace your first wife." - Leviticus 18:18 |
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#557 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
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Quote:
See, it's just crap logic... |
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#558 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
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#559 |
Blue Crack Supplier
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#560 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Thank you for your service Bono
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For gay couples, married matters
__________________Most say they feel more committed, accepted by peers By Stephen Smith, Boston Globe Staff | May 24, 2009 Five years after the first same-sex weddings in Massachusetts, gay and lesbian couples express deeply traditional reasons for deciding to wed and cite equally conventional benefits flowing from marriage, according to a study being released this week. A significant majority of the 558 gay men and women surveyed said that since marrying, they feel more committed to their spouses, more accepted in their community, and more likely to be open about their sexual orientation at work. The survey indicates that there is something universal about the legal protections and social advantages afforded by the institution of marriage, said the study's authors from the University of California, Los Angeles as well as independent researchers. And it suggests, they said, that a ritual once scorned even by many same-sex couples has the power to ease discrimination. "This really helps us confirm and makes us understand why same-sex couples demand marriage - if it's just about the legal rights, why wouldn't they be happy with civil partnerships?" said Stephanie Coontz author of "Marriage, A History." "They want access to that word that is so highly valued by our society and by other people. "It is one thing not to invite your child's girlfriend or boyfriend to dinner," said Coontz, a professor at The Evergreen State College in Olympia, Wash. "It is quite another thing not to invite the spouse." Same-sex marriages began in Massachusetts on May 17, 2004, after the Supreme Judicial Court declared that gay and lesbian couples had the right to wed. The ruling ignited a political and social maelstrom in Massachusetts and beyond, but since then four other states - Connecticut, Iowa, Maine, and Vermont - have extended marriage rights to same-sex couples. Lawmakers in New Hampshire are currently debating whether to make their state the next to do so. The study was prepared and paid for by UCLA's Williams Institute, which examines legal and public policy issues related to sexual orientation and is funded by foundations and individuals, including supporters of gay marriage. The authors of the survey, which consisted of about 30 questions, said they regarded it as an initial assessment of gay marriage, largely designed to explore issues arising during public debate rather than to delve into more personal aspects of couples' relationships. For example, researchers asked whether respondents' children had faced taunting as a result of their parents' same-sex marriage - only 5 percent had - but did not ask how happily married partners were. "We've been interested in the impact of marriage for a long time," said Lee Badgett, researcher director of the Williams Institute and senior author of the study. "I've been combing the universe for data, but there just aren't that many places to look at same-sex couples who are literally married." The marriage questions were included in a larger online health survey conducted this month by the state Department of Public Health. The agency found potential respondents through a database maintained by the gay rights group MassEquality, which includes donors as well as people identified as being in same-sex marriages, and invitations to participate were e-mailed. About 4 percent responded. Those surveyed were not a randomly selected population - something that would have been far more costly and difficult to accomplish - so the findings are not representative of the more than 12,000 gay married couples in Massachusetts. But Coontz and a Wellesley College researcher, Michelle Porche, praised it as a robust, well-executed study. Virtually all of the married men and women who responded - 93 percent - said "love and commitment" were the prime factors in their decision to wed. Marriage appears to have forged stronger ties between spouses and their families and even colleagues on the job. When asked whether marriage had created a stronger bond with their partners, nearly three-quarters said it had. And families, the gay couples said, reacted with overwhelming acceptance of their marriage: 82 percent said their parents responded positively, while 91 percent indicated siblings were receptive. Eight of 10 study participants said that being married made them more likely to disclose their sexual orientation to their coworkers and doctors. "That suggests there's something powerful about that ritual, about that institution," Badgett said. "People feel more accepted by society." Porche, a senior research scientist at the Wellesley Centers for Women, said the findings mirror those of a smaller, although more intensive, study she conducted by interviewing couples not long after gay marriage was legalized. "Studies like these help us from afar to get to know people a little bit better," Porche said. "The more people who have reservations about gay marriage can really meet married same-sex couples and get to know them and their experience, the more they would be open to supporting" the right to marry. Still, advocates on both sides of the gay marriage debate remain starkly divided in their beliefs. Kris Mineau, a leader of the failed effort to place a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage on the ballot in Massachusetts, said he remained convinced that voters should have the final say on who has the right to marry. And, he said, he has not wavered. "There's nothing in that poll that suggests to me any reason why marriage should be changed summarily to meet the personal desires of a small segment of the population," said Mineau, president of the Massachusetts Family Institute. "I see no reason to do this unless the entire population agrees this is in the best interest of our society." Scott Gortikov, executive director of MassEquality, said the study's findings suggest that the benefits of same-sex marriage extend beyond the couple. "What the results are saying is that equal marriage makes for a healthier and happier family life and, necessarily, a healthier and happier and more solid society," Gortikov said. Jonathan Scott and Mike McGuill had been a couple for a decade when, on Aug. 1, 2006, they awakened and headed to the Pilgrim Monument with their young son and two friends, who'd met them for breakfast. "I said, 'Before our scrambled eggs, we're going to get married, I hope that's OK with you,' " Scott recalled. His mother, Scott said, was married five times, so he'd grown up with a well-honed skepticism. But as his relationship with McGuill deepened and they adopted their son, marriage appeared to provide indispensable legal protection to them as a couple and as parents, said Scott, who participated in the survey. "And yet, what happened as we were getting married, it was an experience I'd never had before," said Scott, chief executive of Victory Programs, which helps substance abusers in Boston. "I was so moved at just being in the presence of someone I'd been with 10 years, talking about our love together and our commitment to each other." At family gatherings, McGuill felt a keen sense of difference when he watched his married brothers and sisters - until that August morning three years ago. "Now, I have what they have," said McGuill, a veterinarian. "I have a marriage. Getting married, there's nothing revolutionary about it - it's something you do with the person you love." |
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