equality blooms with spring - Page 22

INDY500 · 05-19-2009, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melon

A smidgen of shame = honor killings?

What would your analogy be if I proposed we went back to stigmatizing laziness? Ovens?

BVS · 05-19-2009, 01:18 AM

It doesn't matter, they should all feel a sense of shame right?

yolland · 05-19-2009, 02:44 AM

Erm, that's not an 'honor killing'...

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500

Is that divorces per marriage or divorces per population?

I'm not aware of any organization which tracks refined divorce rates (rate per 1000 married women) by state. You could collect the needed info to make those calculations from the Census Bureau, but it'd take more time than it's worth here IMO, because what you'd need would be scattered through multiple charts. What you can pretty easily calculate are state-by-state marriage:divorce ratios, which are considered to be in-between the crude divorce rate (rate per 1000 population) and the refined divorce rate in terms of accuracy. Looking at the Census Bureau's most recent state-by-state figures for # of marriages and # of divorces, and looking at just Massachusetts and those 'Bible Belt' states for which both figures are available, the ratios, from 'best' to 'worst,' would be:

Massachusetts 2.65: 1 (marriages: divorces)
Texas 2.26: 1
Tennessee 2.19: 1
South Carolina 2.19: 1
Alabama 2.14: 1
Arkansas 2.01: 1
Virginia 1.96: 1
North Carolina 1.82: 1
Missouri 1.76: 1
Kentucky 1.71: 1
Oklahoma 1.40: 1
Mississippi 1.11: 1

Statistically, the strongest correlations with low divorce rates are high levels of education, low levels of poverty, and low geographic mobility (the latter correlation is interesting in that it can partially 'counteract' the former two--as seen in a 'bad' way in the high-mobility Pacific Northwest, and in a 'good' way in the low-mobility Northern Plains).

ETA: The National Marriage Project at Rutgers calculated refined divorce rates for a few relevant states for 2005, no comprehensive list unfortunately:

Quote:

The highest divorce rates are found in the more religiously-based Red states such as Arkansas (25), Oklahoma (25), and West Virginia (23), in striking contrast to more secular Blue states such as Pennsylvania (11), and Massachusetts (11). The national divorce rate was 16 divorces per 1000 married women in 2005.

martha · 05-19-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliEnvy

INDY, this was an honest question...what are the potential consequences?

Did you get an answer yet?

AliEnvy · 05-19-2009, 08:58 AM

Clearly he's not up to it.

Has any anti-gay marriage advocate effectively answered that question?

martha · 05-19-2009, 09:05 AM

Not that I've ever seen.

Irvine511 · 05-19-2009, 10:25 AM

if we want to measure "morality," and since divorce now doesn't count, maybe we could measure STD rates by state.

because, again, the Red States are going to come out on top of that one as well.

and i think the lesson here is that "morality" has nothing to do with morals, and everything to do with economics.

phillyfan26 · 05-19-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martha

Not that I've ever seen.

Well, you believe you have before, INDY. Usually it's some vague reference to how "we don't know" what could happen if we "alter the definition of marriage." Which sounds like a FOXNews propaganda story, but, nonetheless, is your usual answer.

BVS · 05-19-2009, 10:34 AM

Michael Steele is an idiot and Olbermann as much as I don't like him makes a very OBVIOUS(to us thinking types) point:

Countdown with Keith OlbermannCountdown with Keith Olbermann

INDY500 · 05-19-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliEnvy

Clearly he's not up to it.

Has any anti-gay marriage advocate effectively answered that question?

Ask the man you voted for to be president.

BVS · 05-19-2009, 12:15 PM

Ali lives in Canada(according to her location)...

Another swing and another miss.

BVS · 05-19-2009, 12:19 PM

INDY, I just want to know that those of us that are divorced and should feel shame, do we get different colored 'D's.

I mean should my ex-wife wear the scarlet 'D' and me a light blue 'D'?

I mean how is society going to know who to blame and judge?

phillyfan26 · 05-19-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500

Ask the man you voted for to be president.

The man who is for at the bare minimum civil unions across America and for the states to only decide between the title "civil union" and "marriage?"

He's much closer to being reasonable than most politicians.

AliEnvy · 05-19-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500

Ask the man you voted for to be president.

Deflection won't cut it. You made a statement - a fair one to make, btw - about potential societal consequences of same-sex marriage. It was just incomplete.

Changes to public policy should always be fully assessed on the realistic, potential benefits, costs and risks/consequences.

Can you back up the statement you made?

martha · 05-19-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500

Ask the man you voted for to be president.

She was asking you, as many of us have before.

Irvine511 · 05-19-2009, 05:56 PM

and from the mouths of babes, truth!

YouTube - NOM and CPR Action Present: "I'm Confused"

BVS · 05-19-2009, 06:12 PM

But mommy you said Jesus loves all his children, why not the gay ones? I'm confused.

deep · 05-19-2009, 06:33 PM

if one believes in, accepts, and supports the concept of "sin".

they are a party to the belief system that is responsible for that video

anitram · 05-19-2009, 07:14 PM

Boys in the Sun - NYC: Climbing The Herndon Monument - US Naval Academy Annapolis

Snerk.

DADT is so outdated.

deep · 05-19-2009, 10:33 PM

kind of funny (and sad)

hiding in plain sight

05-19-2009, 01:18 AM	#422
BVS Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: between my head and heart Posts: 41,232 Local Time: 08:20 PM	It doesn't matter, they should all feel a sense of shame right? __________________

05-19-2009, 10:33 PM	#440
deep Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A far distance down. Posts: 28,603 Local Time: 05:20 PM	kind of funny (and sad) hiding in plain sight __________________

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05-19-2009, 08:58 AM	#425
AliEnvy Refugee Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 2,320 Local Time: 01:20 AM	Clearly he's not up to it. Has any anti-gay marriage advocate effectively answered that question?

05-19-2009, 09:05 AM	#426
martha Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place Posts: 42,562 Local Time: 06:20 PM	Not that I've ever seen.

05-19-2009, 10:25 AM	#427
Irvine511 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the West Coast Posts: 34,470 Local Time: 09:20 PM	if we want to measure "morality," and since divorce now doesn't count, maybe we could measure STD rates by state. because, again, the Red States are going to come out on top of that one as well. and i think the lesson here is that "morality" has nothing to do with morals, and everything to do with economics.

05-19-2009, 10:34 AM	#429
BVS Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: between my head and heart Posts: 41,232 Local Time: 08:20 PM	Michael Steele is an idiot and Olbermann as much as I don't like him makes a very OBVIOUS(to us thinking types) point: Countdown with Keith OlbermannCountdown with Keith Olbermann

05-19-2009, 12:15 PM	#431
BVS Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: between my head and heart Posts: 41,232 Local Time: 08:20 PM	Ali lives in Canada(according to her location)... Another swing and another miss.

05-19-2009, 12:19 PM	#432
BVS Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: between my head and heart Posts: 41,232 Local Time: 08:20 PM	INDY, I just want to know that those of us that are divorced and should feel shame, do we get different colored 'D's. I mean should my ex-wife wear the scarlet 'D' and me a light blue 'D'? I mean how is society going to know who to blame and judge?

05-19-2009, 06:12 PM	#437
BVS Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: between my head and heart Posts: 41,232 Local Time: 08:20 PM	But mommy you said Jesus loves all his children, why not the gay ones? I'm confused.

05-19-2009, 06:33 PM	#438
deep Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A far distance down. Posts: 28,603 Local Time: 05:20 PM	if one believes in, accepts, and supports the concept of "sin". they are a party to the belief system that is responsible for that video

05-19-2009, 07:14 PM	#439
anitram Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: NY Posts: 18,918 Local Time: 09:20 PM	Boys in the Sun - NYC: Climbing The Herndon Monument - US Naval Academy Annapolis Snerk. DADT is so outdated.