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Old 04-22-2009, 01:02 AM   #301
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I like to be challenged. Which is why I found Bill Hicks refreshing... 20 years ago. Now the challenge for a comic in the 21st century would be "to be openly evangelical or conservative" and still be popular.
Can you think of any? Or recent TV or movie characters shown in a positive light?
No, but we don't own a TV nor watch many movies, so I'm not too up on the comedy scene. I'm not personally aware of any "openly religious" mainstream Jewish comedians either, even though Jews are 'over-represented' in comedy and plenty of them (Sarah Silverman, Adam Sandler etc.) have often played off unflattering stereotypes about Jews in their routines. But so what? Who cares?

You didn't answer the question I actually asked, though. What does any of that have to do with whether you consider any criticisms of your position on this topic in FYM to be "serious questions"? No one asked you to apologize for being Christian or quoted Sam Kinison or Perez Hilton, whoever that is, at you. You complain about gay people, who can't even comfortably walk down the street holding their partner's hand in most of this country, reacting angrily to a Sam Kinison joke, but then you turn around and appear to suggest that you don't feel like taking an FYM discussion seriously because Perez Hilton called some Christian Miss USA contestant a name.
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:12 AM   #302
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That's my point. In the 80's and early 90's these guys were originals.

Now evangelicals and fundamentalists are the fodder for every comic and, at least in pop culture, marginalized while homosexuals are the verboten target (unless you're for gay rights, same-sex marriage and-all-that of course, then you can poke a little fun.)

Nobody tells Mohammed jokes however.



poor you.
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Old 04-22-2009, 08:05 AM   #303
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I like to be challenged.
No you don't. You dodge or trivialize every single serious question that's asked of you here, or you respond by repeating "tradition!" over and over.

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You didn't answer the question I actually asked, though.

He never does.
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:34 AM   #304
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You didn't answer the question I actually asked, though. What does any of that have to do with whether you consider any criticisms of your position on this topic in FYM to be "serious questions"? No one asked you to apologize for being Christian or quoted Sam Kinison or Perez Hilton, whoever that is, at you. You complain about gay people, who can't even comfortably walk down the street holding their partner's hand in most of this country, reacting angrily to a Sam Kinison joke, but then you turn around and appear to suggest that you don't feel like taking an FYM discussion seriously because Perez Hilton called some Christian Miss USA contestant a name.
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No you don't. You dodge or trivialize every single serious question that's asked of you here, or you respond by repeating "tradition!" over and over.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:47 PM   #305
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Let's wait and see if anyone here raises "serious questions" about same-sex marriage.
Martha posted that list of serious questions you hadn't answered just a page or two back.

For one, everyone is dying to know why you feel the need to bring up the reproduction bit when it isn't a prerequisite for marriage.

Irvine also asked a question about the difference between his relationship and Martha's.
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Old 04-22-2009, 03:13 PM   #306
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There is no difference. They are both immoral.
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Old 04-22-2009, 03:14 PM   #307
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There is no difference. They are both immoral.


i can name a difference.

Memphis and i can wear each other's clothes. my wardrobe doubled when we moved in together! fabulous!
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Old 04-22-2009, 03:54 PM   #308
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Memphis and i can wear each other's clothes. my wardrobe doubled when we moved in together! fabulous!
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:09 PM   #309
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Perez Hilton is the biggest douchebag on the planet, not to mention 100,000% wrong on this whole Miss California thing.
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:38 PM   #310
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i can name a difference.

Memphis and i can wear each other's clothes. my wardrobe doubled when we moved in together! fabulous!


most of my GFs, (the tall ones) have worn some of my clothes, leather jackets, levis, shirts, etc.
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:51 PM   #311
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Sam Kinison was just as funny and brutal on Christians but when he told AIDS and gerbil jokes...gays got mad.

Might be because telling AIDS and gerbil jokes is going for cheap and vulgar laughs which appeal to the instincts of the lowest denominator in the audience.
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:19 PM   #312
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most of my GFs, (the tall ones) have worn some of my clothes, leather jackets, levis, shirts, etc.
And what did you wear of theirs?
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:23 PM   #313
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This man is lovely:

Media Matters - Savage says "gay mafia runs every avenue of this culture," "piece of human waste with eyes" Perez Hilton is "a man who hates women so much that he won't have sex with them"

So INDY how do you defend this(or do you agree)?

You made one person's response an issue now what do you say about this?
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:18 AM   #314
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This man is lovely:

Media Matters - Savage says "gay mafia runs every avenue of this culture," "piece of human waste with eyes" Perez Hilton is "a man who hates women so much that he won't have sex with them"

So INDY how do you defend this(or do you agree)?

You made one person's response an issue now what do you say about this?

Most people in the entertainment industry (outside of Nashville) probably do support same-sex marriage as they skew heavily liberal on all issues. But clearly there is "pressure" to stay quite or not dissent on this issue.

That isn't right. And it's not only this issue. How is the military, faith and big business portrayed all too often for example.

They turn many away (and therefor lose a great deal of business) with their condescension, heavy handedness and lopsidedness on these issues. Newspapers, news magazines and much of the MSM is making the same financial miscalculation as they throw objectivity out the window.

And as someone who studies the history of movies I'm very aware that, until recently, homosexuals -- to the extent they were even acknowledged -- were almost exclusively portrayed in a negative light.

My point is not a pity party but this. Is it any doubt Americans under 30 support same-sex marriage when they are offered no other POV? Parents or pastors you say. Well they're adults and since when did anyone under 30 think they had a clue?
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:33 AM   #315
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Martha posted that list of serious questions you hadn't answered just a page or two back.

For one, everyone is dying to know why you feel the need to bring up the reproduction bit when it isn't a prerequisite for marriage.

Irvine also asked a question about the difference between his relationship and Martha's.

"Miss California lost a beauty pageant for giving the same answer to a question that Barack Obama won the presidency with."
-- Dennis Miller

So why don't y'all go ask President Obama why he thinks marriage should be reserved as between a man and a women. Maybe he can succeed where I must obviously fail. You voted for the homophobe after all.

Welcome to the White House
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:58 AM   #316
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"Miss California lost a beauty pageant for giving the same answer to a question that Barack Obama won the presidency with."
-- Dennis Miller

So why don't y'all go ask President Obama why he thinks marriage should be reserved for a man and a women. Maybe he can succeed where I must obviously fail. You voted for the homophobe after all.

Welcome to the White House
Yeah.

So.

You still haven't answered any questions, but now you've got a new dodge: quoting famous people.

Oh, and blaming the liberal media.
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Old 04-23-2009, 07:24 AM   #317
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Yeah.

So.

You still haven't answered any questions, but now you've got a new dodge: quoting famous people.

Oh, and blaming the liberal media.
Baloney. I've been here almost 4 years and we've had numerous same-sex marriage threads. I've tried and obviously not been up to the task.
So seriously. Go ask The One.
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:16 AM   #318
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Go ask The One.
I will. And I'll get a different answer than you wiil.
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:40 AM   #319
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Most people in the entertainment industry (outside of Nashville) probably do support same-sex marriage as they skew heavily liberal on all issues. But clearly there is "pressure" to stay quite or not dissent on this issue.

That isn't right. And it's not only this issue. How is the military, faith and big business portrayed all too often for example.

They turn many away (and therefor lose a great deal of business) with their condescension, heavy handedness and lopsidedness on these issues. Newspapers, news magazines and much of the MSM is making the same financial miscalculation as they throw objectivity out the window.

And as someone who studies the history of movies I'm very aware that, until recently, homosexuals -- to the extent they were even acknowledged -- were almost exclusively portrayed in a negative light.

My point is not a pity party but this. Is it any doubt Americans under 30 support same-sex marriage when they are offered no other POV? Parents or pastors you say. Well they're adults and since when did anyone under 30 think they had a clue?
Wow, talk about a dodge, twist, and pity party all rolled into one. Not one word about Savage? You make such a deal about a blogger turned contestant judge but when it's your own ilk you can't defend?

Your under 30 "observation" can go both ways. Did that even dawn on you? I mean seriously, did you even read what you were writing?

I think your "observation" is quite humerous... So we should go back to the days when homos, black people, jews, etc were all portrayed poorly?

I think that most under 30 will support gay marriage for many reason, very few of which have anything to do with what you talk about. It has to do with many actually know someone who is out and they realized :shock: they are just like you and I, they've seen straight generations before them screw up the sanctity of marriage so they don't buy into that lie, and all in all just believe in equality more than you do.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:58 AM   #320
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Most people in the entertainment industry (outside of Nashville) probably do support same-sex marriage as they skew heavily liberal on all issues. But clearly there is "pressure" to stay quite or not dissent on this issue.

That isn't right. And it's not only this issue. How is the military, faith and big business portrayed all too often for example.

then maybe conservatives need to make more movies.

you'll forgive me if i don't feel much sympathy that some feel "pressure" not to advertise their prejudices with others who don't share them. the reason why people in the entertainment industry tend to be liberal at least on this issue -- they're pretty conservative when it comes to making money -- is because there are lots and lots and lots of gay people in the entertainment industry. it's kind of like being a racist in the NBA.

if Miss California had expressed an openly racist, misogynist, anti-semetic, or anti-American position, she would also have not won the pageant.





Quote:
They turn many away (and therefor lose a great deal of business) with their condescension, heavy handedness and lopsidedness on these issues. Newspapers, news magazines and much of the MSM is making the same financial miscalculation as they throw objectivity out the window.

trotting out the "liberal media" card is very 1993. this only seems to happen when there's a Democrat in the White House.



Quote:
And as someone who studies the history of movies I'm very aware that, until recently, homosexuals -- to the extent they were even acknowledged -- were almost exclusively portrayed in a negative light.

yes, this is very true. and this is why organizations like GLAAD exist. and my hope is that they cease to be useful, that there's no longer a need for sucha n organization.


Quote:
My point is not a pity party but this. Is it any doubt Americans under 30 support same-sex marriage when they are offered no other POV? Parents or pastors you say. Well they're adults and since when did anyone under 30 think they had a clue?

offered no other POV? first of all -- do we need another POV on anti-semitism? should we just nod our heads when Iran (or Mel Gibson) denies the existence of the Holocaust and say, "well, this is just another point-of-view, they're entitled to their opinion on historical facts because we have Freedom Of Speech in this country."



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So why don't y'all go ask President Obama why he thinks marriage should be reserved as between a man and a women. Maybe he can succeed where I must obviously fail. You voted for the homophobe after all.

Welcome to the White House

while i think Obama is a coward on this issue -- i expect him to change his position after being re-elected in 2012 -- he has called for the repeal of DOMA, for federal recognition of SS couples, and he expressed support against Proposition 8.

certainly better than the GOP alternative, and certainly more comprehensive than the answer that Miss California was able to give (though she didn't have much time).

also -- doesn't it say something to you that Perez Hilton -- Perez Hilton! -- is all you have right now?

it seems like all the legal arguments have been lost. Maggie Gallagher is now going for "religious discrimination" because everyone knows the incest/man-on-goat hysteria is entirely bogus.

the argument is winding down.
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