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Old 04-21-2009, 05:00 PM   #261
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Everytime anyone gives Perez Hilton any attention, an angel gets its wings ripped off. I can't believe he's become some sort of spokesperson for this story - it makes me want to bang my head against a sharp, immobile object.
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:06 PM   #262
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I wonder if he would condone torture?

Things that make you go
That's an easy one. He seemed to be into it.

Did you see Passion?
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:13 PM   #263
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That's an easy one. He seemed to be into it.

Did you see Passion?



purity through pain.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:34 PM   #264
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wow. i guess you've proved -- via the quote of one individual on one blog that i've never heard of -- that you're really the virtuous underdog in this battle and that your opponents, despite being only 5% of the population, are secretly powerful and are working to fundamentally change the fabric of society and remake it in their own image.

luckily, the gays already have their own ghettos. so the rest should be easy.

and, yes, i think the only explanation for any opposition to gay marriage is homophobia. and, no, i don't think that homophobia is any better than racism or sexism. it was a homophobic comment. people are allowed to make those, and Perez Hilton can think she's a dumb bitch if he wants. as a judge, however, he entirely overstepped propriety (and possibly the rules), and as such should not be asked back as a judge.



(and if you go to, say, The Advocate website and read the comments section, you'll find that the vast majority of commenters defended her right to her opinion, and most think Perez Hilton is a douchebag)
Oh, I'm quite sure we could find some truly bigoted remarks by defenders of traditional marriage towards gays.

I guess my point is -- we would expect that from us "troglodytes." Your position, however, is supposed to be the enlightened, erudite, lofty, righteous view. So, "what up" with the automatic labeling of all opponents, the inevitable obscenity-laced epitaph throwing and overall general lack of civility and respect?

Is it my turn to say "are you becoming the monster in order to defeat the monster"?
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:42 PM   #265
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Oh, I'm quite sure we could find some truly bigoted remarks by defenders of traditional marriage towards gays.

I guess my point is -- we would expect that from us "troglodytes." Your position, however, is supposed to be the enlightened, erudite, lofty, righteous view. So, "what up" with the automatic labeling of all opponents, the inevitable obscenity-laced epitaph throwing and overall general lack of civility and respect?

Is it my turn to say "are you becoming the monster in order to defeat the monster"?


me? no.

i will absolutely say that creating a moral distinction between a gay couple and a straight couple on the basis of sexual orientation is bigoted. end of story for me.

i have not defended Perez Hilton's comments. but trust me. Perez has probably been called much worse in his life by straight people (and not just celebrities he rips on).

if he's all you've got left, then you've lost.
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:26 PM   #266
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me? no.

i will absolutely say that creating a moral distinction between a gay couple and a straight couple on the basis of sexual orientation is bigoted. end of story for me.
Forget moral distinction. It's bigoted, I guess, to even imply the obvious physical distinctions:

That only the union between a male and a female can naturally create life while passing on genes. Not an unimportant detail regarding the maintanace of sociatal stability.

That it's most advantagous for children to be raised by a mother AND father. Something obvious to all previous generations -- sadly becoming another casualty of value-neutrality.

In the name of progress of course.
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I have not defended Perez Hilton's comments. but trust me. Perez has probably been called much worse in his life by straight people (and not just celebrities he rips on).

if he's all you've got left, then you've lost.
I had never heard of Perez Hilton until yesterday and if not for this thread I wouldn't have given 2 seconds of thought to his actions.
He's an idiot but he's an outspoken same-sex advocate which makes him, in the cyperspace of this thread, your idiot.
Thus the tweaking.
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:38 PM   #267
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That only the union between a male and a female can naturally create life while passing on genes. Not an unimportant detail regarding the maintanace of sociatal stability.
The weakness of using this as a legal argument--as the Iowa Court pointed out--is that by ignoring the presence of heterosexual marriages which cannot or will not ever produce children, laws formally restricting marriage to 'a man and a woman' under this justification have the effect of singling out one group for penalization (for being unable to produce children) on the basis of an argument which applies to many others as well. Ditto for justifications like 'every child needs a mother and a father.'
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:08 PM   #268
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Forget moral distinction. It's bigoted, I guess, to even imply the obvious physical distinctions:

That only the union between a male and a female can naturally create life while passing on genes. Not an unimportant detail regarding the maintanace of sociatal stability.

That it's most advantagous for children to be raised by a mother AND father. Something obvious to all previous generations -- sadly becoming another casualty of value-neutrality.

In the name of progress of course.


i had no idea that having one's own biological children was a precondition for marriage.

further, the mother AND a father is a distortion. the only things studies have show is that children tend do better with TWO (good) parents rather than one. said studies were done comparing heterosex households. there's no demonstrable difference between children raised by same-gender parents than with opposite-sex parents. there simply isn't. but that's moot, anyway, because no one is required to have children. nor should they be.

and the "previous generations" comment is just silly. notions of child rearing are quite different today than they were 100 years ago, let alone 500 or 2,000 years ago.


Quote:
I had never heard of Perez Hilton until yesterday and if not for this thread I wouldn't have given 2 seconds of thought to his actions.
He's an idiot but he's an outspoken same-sex advocate which makes him, in the cyperspace of this thread, your idiot.
Thus the tweaking.

and you linked to a thrice-married serial adulterer who dumped his first wife as she lay dying of cancer.
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:12 PM   #269
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i had no idea that having one's own biological children was a precondition for marriage.

Yikes. That's not a law here in the US yet, is it?

I may have to get me one of those adult baby-dolls. ew.
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:16 PM   #270
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Yikes. That's not a law here in the US yet, is it?

I may have to get me one of those adult baby-dolls. ew.


i'm surprised the government hasn't forcibly divorced the two of you.

no biological children, no marriage.

jumping off this, and since i've offered up many clear answers to clear questions, i'm going to ask another question:


1. what is the moral difference between Irvine/Memphis and Martha/Steve?

be specific.
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:18 PM   #271
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and you linked to a thrice-married serial adulterer who dumped his first wife as she lay dying of cancer.
Yes, well perhaps he feared the lack of sex was going to open him up to recruitment as a suicidal bomber.
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:19 PM   #272
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Yes, well perhaps he feared the lack of sex was going to open him up to recruitment as a suicidal bomber.


Newt had no problems getting sex. he didn't live in a society where there's a 40% unemployment rate and women are kept under lock, key, and birka.

ask yourself why 15 of the hijackers were Saudis.

and please answer my very specific question.
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:32 PM   #273
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Newt had no problems getting sex. he didn't live in a society where there's a 40% unemployment rate and women are kept under lock, key, and birka.

ask yourself why 15 of the hijackers were Saudis.
There's much worse poverty and unemployment in Africa yet they don't seem to share this urge to self-detonate.

Quote:
and please answer my very specific question.
I just stated a truth. I didn't place any legal or moral judgement on the relationship or the children.

Only the union of a man and a woman can naturally produce children with their genes. True or false?
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:44 PM   #274
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Only the union of a man and a woman can naturally produce children with their genes. True or false?
So what?

I can call up a guy I know right now and get on that in a half an hour if you'd like, what argument does that further, exactly?
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:48 PM   #275
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Only the union of a man and a woman can naturally produce children with their genes. True or false?

What does this have to do with my marriage?
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:51 PM   #276
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Only the union of a man and a woman can naturally produce children with their genes. True or false?
True and irrelevant since it's not a requirement. Unless you are for making reproduction a requirement of marriage, then what's the point of stating this?
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:51 PM   #277
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There's much worse poverty and unemployment in Africa yet they don't seem to share this urge to self-detonate.

this is a totally different topic. i'll just say: give Somalia time.



Quote:
I just stated a truth. I didn't place any legal or moral judgement on the relationship or the children.

Only the union of a man and a woman can naturally produce children with their genes. True or false?

yes, this is true. it is also limited.

do all unions of man and woman naturally produce children?

as has been asked: what does this "truth" have to do with marriage?
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:04 PM   #278
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True and irrelevant since it's not a requirement. Unless you are for making reproduction a requirement of marriage, then what's the point of stating this?
Do you have a preference between 'Daddy’s New Roommate' and 'Heather Has Two Mommies'?
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:08 PM   #279
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He asked you a serious question, why are you responding flippantly?
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:12 PM   #280
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Do you have a preference between 'Daddy’s New Roommate' and 'Heather Has Two Mommies'?


why do these titles make you uncomfortable?

would you be uncomfortable with "Mommy's New Husband has Dark Skin" or "Daddy Converted, Now I Have To As Well"?
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