Enron again

[Danospano]

In a uptopian society the only opinions would be informed opinions based on merit and reason. So far, this forum is resembling not of the kind.

Just so you all know, the reason I do not get involved in these heated mudslinging discussion is not because I'm ignorate on the subject ( I happen to have a basic knowledge of what's going on), but because no one is focusing on the issue at hand.

If the issue is Enron, please understand that if you begin citing facts that have no actual relation to Enron itself, you're invalidating your argument.

And futhermore, if you want to find "REAL" truth, bringing partisan politics to the table is among the most narrowminded approaches to solving the problem. We are talking about the law, and if someone broke the law, why shouldn't we investigate it? Especially when thousands of people lost their life savings. I'd rather know what happened behind closed doors, than to have blind faith in our leadership. (And no, that wasn't a jab at dubya, it was a jab at everyone in elected office).

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by zoomerang II:
Im going to give an opinion from a non american perspective. Isn't it right and proper that the Enron fiasco is big enough that it warrants a full independent enquiry? And if this full independent inquiry found that businessmen or politicians had acted improperly, then they must be prosecuted. End of story.
Or am i too naive?

First of all.. No one was complaining when the stock was going up.. Ok.. now after my little bit of bowel waste, I'll just give an opinion..

Enron is only as big as it is because people lost money.. a lot of money.. .. Hahah.. how simple this is, But That's not all of the 'only' .. Because the added dimension is that it has Political Ties...

Note. GLOBAL CROSSING.. the Fourth Largest Bankruptcy in History .. With more APPARENT Scandal laced through it than Enron.. Is Getting No Media Play.. though it is picking up more than the one article I've seen on it...

Back to Enron and Political Ties... Enron has ties to the Bush Administration, however innocent, or corrupt is yet to be officially seen.. Though all evidence at the moment points to no illegal involvement...

Now a bit of commentary:
Coming from a Republican perspective, the OverBlownness of it in the Media.. Not in the Congressional Investigations.. (As Bubba pointed out Republicans were Involved In)
The media/Liberals feel they can trap Bush in something here..(Not so radical statement inserted here:They can get back at him (Any Republican) for the Impeachment of Clinton) and That is a large contributor to why it is such a Big Deal.. If Global Crossing was involved with Bush as it were with McAuliffe.. Then I'd be very interested to see what the Headlines would Read.

L.Unplugged

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by melon:
As it stands, unless these papers are revealed, there will always be a cloud of guilt over this presidency.

Melon

In Whose Mind?.. Yours?..

And again, This was in another thread a bit back.. Have you no qualms with the kind of Constitutional Precedent this would set? Sadly I don't think you do..

Just wondering your opinon on this, cuz you've never really addressed it...

L.Unplugged

80's, It's good to hear from ya again, How was that extended vacation in Peru.. I heard you were basking in the sun with Half Clad Women all begging for your attention.. Rumor also has it you're a big fan of Pina Coladas?

[melon]

Originally posted by Lemonite:
Enron is only as big as it is because people lost money.. a lot of money.. ..

I love how you brag about this.

Note. GLOBAL CROSSING.. the Fourth Largest Bankruptcy in History .. With more APPARENT Scandal laced through it than Enron.. Is Getting No Media Play.. though it is picking up more than the one article I've seen on it...

Global Crossing is still operating. No employees fired (but not hiring anyone new). It is positioned to reemerge out of bankruptcy. Major difference between Enron, where all the employees were fired and the executives ran off with millions. Nor does Global Crossing have thousands of fradulent foreign subsidiaries like Enron. The "more apparent scandal" is all in your head, because you, along with the EIB king, just would love to see the Democrats fall. What killed Global Crossing was simple: a Wall Street fiber optics panic. They weren't expecting their $14 stock price to evaporate to 80 cents overnight. The same exact thing burned K-Mart.

Back to Enron and Political Ties... Enron has ties to the Bush Administration, however innocent, or corrupt is yet to be officially seen.. Though all evidence at the moment points to no illegal involvement...

Correct. The investigation should continue unimpeded to see if this will remain true or not.

The media/Liberals feel they can trap Bush in something here..(Not so radical statement inserted here:They can get back at him (Any Republican) for the Impeachment of Clinton) and That is a large contributor to why it is such a Big Deal.. If Global Crossing was involved with Bush as it were with McAuliffe.. Then I'd be very interested to see what the Headlines would Read.

1) The Republicans wanted to get back at the Democrats for nailing Nixon during Clinton's impeachment, so don't pretend total innocence.

2) It isn't just about contributions. Maybe I'm repeating myself until I'm hoarse (wouldn't be the first time in this forum), but if it were just about campaign contributions, you could rightfully state that Democrats and Republicans should share blame. However, something is "suspicious" ("suspicious" does NOT automatically mean "guilty") about the way Cheney's energy policy ran during the California energy crisis and the fact that much of Bush's Administration used to work for or had close ties to Enron. Not to mention the "suspicion" that Lay himself was involved in crafting the energy policy. It bleeds conflict of interest, and, maybe, it isn't illegal. We'll see.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

[melon]

Originally posted by Lemonite:
In Whose Mind?.. Yours?..

The world doesn't revolve around conservatism, mind you.

And again, This was in another thread a bit back.. Have you no qualms with the kind of Constitutional Precedent this would set? Sadly I don't think you do..

"Constitutional precedent" my ass. Congress has repeatedly asserted its right to investigate the president and private conversations, and the court system has upheld it. Remember the Watergate tapes? All private White House conversations during the Nixon era. This is absolutely no different.

However, assuming there would be a "constitutional precedent" problem, it would be for the better. We should have every right to know whom or what our President is "getting advice" from. I'm tired of all the campaign lies to get elected and then, behind closed doors, doing the opposite.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time