Elton john wants....

[AEON]

Pop quiz:

Which group is the one pushing for constitutional amendments that the gay community vehemently opposes, and which group likes to think that any form of gay rights or benefits is "marriage"?

Let me give you a hint: It starts with "C" and ends with "hristianity."

Pop answer:

The only intolerance I see in this thread is against those who disagree with you Melon.

 

[Ormus]

This is the big question, isn't it? I'm honestly anxious to know the answer, too. I've heard Christians speak about how they did leave homosexuality for their relationship with Christ. Some remained celibate, some married a woman. They say they're happy and they sound like they're happy. Not just because they left homosexuality, but because they're in a relationship with Christ.

I know you seem puzzled by all the vitriol being thrown at you, but, frankly, you're pretty much pushing all the wrong buttons here. Almost everything you say sounds like it came from an ex-gay pamphlet, which adds to the offensiveness to anyone who is gay.

You can't "leave homosexuality" anymore than you can "leave heterosexuality." Sure, you can put on a mask and pretend to be someone you're not, put a smile on your face when you're talking to someone you know is anti-gay, and even lie to yourself. Actors do it all the time, albeit in a benign way.

I grew up in a fairly religious environment, and, certainly, there were many years where I refused to accept it, prayed, and the whole Christian gambit. But, you see, it did no good at all. Nothing changed. And I'm not about to put on a mask and masquerade as a heterosexual when I'm really not. You see, while I dispute all these supposedly anti-gay Biblical passages, one thing I do know for sure is that lying is a sin.

Many years ago, I once prayed for guidance as to what God really felt. And that night, I had a dream that I was going to hell. Odd dream, right? So, horrified, I asked why I had been condemned. And I was told that it was not because of my sexuality, but because of all the years I had ridiculed and made fun of my sister, which, back at that time, I had done for many years without a second thought, really.

And, frankly, as horrifying of a dream like that would be, it was refreshing. I then decided that I would stop making fun of my sister, and realized, as I continue to do now, that God could frankly care less about some ritualistic notions of sexuality. He's merely interested in how lovingly we live our lives and how we treat the least of our neighbors.

If that's the case, I think that there's plenty of conservative Christians in for a rude awakening when they die, considering the absolute zeal they pursue in belittling homosexuals. It's not much different than how I used to treat my sister, in the end. You just don't have a face to look at.

 

[Ormus]

Pop answer:

The only intolerance I see in this thread is against those who disagree with you Melon.

Then you're willfully blind or ignorant. Pick which answer is most comforting for you.

 

[AEON]

oops

 

[AEON]

INDY - Are those horrific lyrics from an Elton John song?

 

[AEON]

Then you're willfully blind or ignorant. Pick which answer is most comforting for you.

So, anyone who disagrees with you is either blind or ignorant.

Man, talk about pride...

 

[Dreadsox]

Pop answer:

The only intolerance I see in this thread is against those who disagree with you Melon.

Yep, cause Melon is such a bully for standing up for who he is.

This combined with your last post makes me sick.

Example of PM:

[Q] Oh AEON, you are my hero. You stood up to those gay bullies in FYM.



I have been so scared to post on an internet forum because of them. They might challenge me to view the world differently.

They are so intolorant they do not want to hear the truth. That we love them, but hate the sin.

Amen brother!!!

[/Q]

 

[AEON]

Then you're willfully blind or ignorant. Pick which answer is most comforting for you.

Wait - we both like Shoegazing music - so I guess in this case we are BOTH blind and ignorant...

 

[Ormus]

So, anyone who disagrees with you is either blind or ignorant.

Man, talk about pride...

No, that's just your sloppy, pride-filled assumption.

I consider you willfully blind or ignorant that you cannot see how most Christian discourse referring to homosexuality is insulting and intolerant, whether it be painted in flowery condescending stereotypes or a complete perversion of any definition of "love," where denying rights is "love" and civil rights is "hatred." Seriously....listening to any conservative Christian on the news sounds completely Orwellian to me. I just heard some guy rant about how gay rights would hurt religious freedom. WTF?! What about *my* religious freedom?

I couldn't care less whether you disagree with me or not, considering that the former is a given.

 

[Ormus]

Wait - we both like Shoegazing music - so I guess in this case we are BOTH blind and ignorant...

I'm listening to The Jesus and Mary Chain as we speak.

 

[AEON]

I'm listening to The Jesus and Mary Chain as we speak.

Something to build on... JAMC - one of the all time greats. I made a playlist comprised of the best of JAMC, My Bloody Valentine, Slowdive, Mojave 3, Lush, and Ride. Needless to say, it is probably my most listened to playlist...

That being said - I at least know you have great taste in music...

(AEON hits the play button on Psychocandy)

 

[Dreadsox]

International Statement
on Marriage Equality

Metropolitan Community Churches, an international movement of Christian Churches reaching in and beyond the lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer, and heterosexual communities has preached a three-pronged Gospel of salvation, community and social justice for 38 years.

Throughout these 38 years we have worked together to make real a world of justice and equality and have celebrated more than 6000 same-sex and opposite-sex weddings around the globe every year.

We celebrate with our sisters and brothers in Canada, South Africa, England, the Netherlands, Spain and other progressive communities who have already won the right to marry and/or civil partnerships for those among us who are lesbian or gay and will continue to work for full equality throughout the world of marriage for all who seek to legalize their relationships within country laws that provide for marriage, for both opposite and same-sex relationships.

We understand marriage equality to be a civil rights and justice issue and that religious communities often differ on their theological understanding of homosexuality and marriage.

Most religions have their own requirements for entering into a valid marriage. The Roman Catholic Church, for example, will not marry first cousins or divorced persons who have not received an annulment. Some branches of Judaism will not marry a previously married woman unless she has undergone a religious divorce by receiving a «get.» Some religious officials will not marry two individuals unless at least one is a member of their congregation. These will continue to be issues for religious communities but are not considered within civil marriage.

Metropolitan Community Churches believes that any person who wishes to enter into a civil marriage should have the right to do so and that religious communities should have the right to decide whether or not it will provide religious services to sanctify that marriage.

We will use our religious voice and our churches to both promote and provide religious services and blessings for lesbian/gay couples who wish to sanctify their relationship before God, regardless of legal recognition, and will work with other communities of faith to come to a deeper understanding of the value and worth of all of God’s creation, including those who are homosexual.

Finally, we will use our resources to work in partnership with other progressive communities, both secular and religious, to speak out against both secular and religious voices that would seek to demonize homosexuality and who are opposed to equal rights for same-gender couples and full marriage equality.

http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=International_Statement_on_Marriage_Equality

This would be why I think Elton is wrong.

 

[AEON]

Yep, cause Melon is such a bully for standing up for who he is.

This combined with your last post makes me sick.

Example of PM:

[Q] Oh AEON, you are my hero. You stood up to those gay bullies in FYM.



I have been so scared to post on an internet forum because of them. They might challenge me to view the world differently.

They are so intolorant they do not want to hear the truth. That we love them, but hate the sin.

Amen brother!!!

[/Q]

Yeah - that is pretty much how they read...

 

[BVS]

AEON, I would think as a seminary student you would want to answer my question. I think this is now the third thread where you have ignored this line of questioning. Is it because you don't know, or you realize the corner you've painted yourself into?

 

[Ormus]

Something to build on... JAMC - one of the all time greats. I made a playlist comprised of the best of JAMC, My Bloody Valentine, Slowdive, Mojave 3, Lush, and Ride. Needless to say, it is probably my most listened to playlist...

That being said - I at least know you have great taste in music...

(AEON hits the play button on Psychocandy)

The only band on that list that I don't really listen to is Lush. Just can't really get into them. Mojave 3, to me, is "alt-country," not "shoegazer," since the former Slowdivers purposely went away from the shoegazer genre as Mojave 3. Names aside, my love of ambient music more than makes room for them, even if I don't consider them shoegazer.

 

[Dreadsox]

AEON, I would think as a seminary student you would want to answer my question. I think this is now the third thread where you have ignored this line of questioning. Is it because you don't know, or you realize the corner you've painted yourself into?

Stop bullying him.....Why can't you just cut and run?

 

[BVS]

You're right, thanks for showing the me the way.

 

[AEON]

The only band on that list that I don't really listen to is Lush. Just can't really get into them. Mojave 3, to me, is "alt-country," not "shoegazer," since the former Slowdivers purposely went away from the shoegazer genre as Mojave 3. Names aside, my love of ambient music more than makes room for them, even if I don't consider them shoegazer.

I only like about 2 Lush songs...only because they sound like the Cocteau Twins, another favorite.

True about Mojave 3 - but putting them in my Shorgazing playlist helps me from getting the "shoegazing headache."

 

[AEON]

AEON, I would think as a seminary student you would want to answer my question. I think this is now the third thread where you have ignored this line of questioning. Is it because you don't know, or you realize the corner you've painted yourself into?

Gosh - you remind me of that little dog from Tom and Jerry. The one yappin' at Butch...

Which question did I not answer this time? I thought the post from wikipedia covered your previous concern just fine.

 

[yolland]

Example of PM:

[Q] Oh AEON, you are my hero. You stood up to those gay bullies in FYM.



I have been so scared to post on an internet forum because of them. They might challenge me to view the world differently.

They are so intolorant they do not want to hear the truth. That we love them, but hate the sin.

Amen brother!!!

[/Q]

Dread, that was unnecessary.

 

[BVS]

Gosh - you remind me of that little dog from Tom and Jerry. The one yappin' at Butch...

Which question did I not answer this time? I thought the post from wikipedia covered your previous concern just fine.

The one I copied over three times. If that website answers that question then please show me where.

Yes, that's why I asked the question. How does that website prove that Paul knew he was only upholding cultrual law and not God's law by saying that?

 

[Ormus]

I only like about 2 Lush songs...only because they sound like the Cocteau Twins, another favorite.

The Cocteau Twins are kind of funny. They're more properly categorized as "proto-shoegazer," but it's probably just easier to say that they're shoegazer.

 

[AEON]

The Cocteau Twins are kind of funny. They're more properly categorized as "proto-shoegazer," but it's probably just easier to say that they're shoegazer.

Yeah - the same could be said with JAMC.

The Cocteau Twins and Dead Can Dance ruled my music world between JT and Achtung Baby. Achtung Baby made it "safe" to be a U2 fan again.

(Can you hear the My Bloody Valentine influence on Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses?)

 

[AEON]

The one I copied over three times. If that website answers that question then please show me where.

I can't make sense of your question. Can you please re-phrase?

 

[BVS]

I can't make sense of your question. Can you please re-phrase?

It's pretty simple, how does that website prove Paul was only talking about cultural law when he states women can't teach men?

 

[AEON]

It's pretty simple, how does that website prove Paul was only talking about cultural law when he states women can't teach men?

Didn't I cover this in the "Why Christians Don't Eat Kosher" thread?

How do I post a link to a thread?

 

[BVS]

Didn't I cover this in the "Why Christians Don't Eat Kosher" thread?

How do I post a link to a thread?

Just answer the question.



I've asked this question many many times in here and only one person was honest enough to answer it, sadly he no longer posts here.

 

[AEON]

Just answer the question.



I've asked this question many many times in here and only one person was honest enough to answer it, sadly he no longer posts here.

First, if your friend answered - then why are you asking again?

To summarize, again - God's eternal law is essentially the Ten Commandments. They are unchanging. Almost everything else was written for a specific place and time (such as women teaching in church). Thus, they can and do change.

The question of homosexual behavior boils down to this - is it adultery? (one of the ten commandments). I think it is.

It seems that at least many here are promoting monogamy of some sort (gay or straight). So I can at least see "traces" of the influence of God's eternal law...

 

[Ormus]

The question of homosexual behavior boils down to this - is it adultery? (one of the ten commandments). I think it is.

From a dictionary:

adultery–noun, plural -ter‧ies.
voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse.

Homosexual sex is not adultery, by default. But sure...if you're like former NJ Governor McGreevey and you cheat on your wife with another man, there can be adultery, just as there can be with heterosexual sex.

 

[BVS]

First, if your friend answered - then why are you asking again?

His answer is different from yours. He admitted to the contradiction by saying not all of God's laws are easy to follow.

To summarize, again - God's eternal law is essentially the Ten Commandments. They are unchanging. Almost everything else was written for a specific place and time (such as women teaching in church). Thus, they can and do change.

The question of homosexual behavior boils down to this - is it adultery? (one of the ten commandments). I think it is.

It seems that at least many here are promoting monogamy of some sort (gay or straight). So I can at least see "traces" of the influence of God's eternal law...

Nothing in the 10 commandments defines marriage though. So now you are back to your backward logic of forcing homosexuality to be adultery. You just stated anything outside of that is specific to place and time and can change.

But I ask again why would Paul make a point of this? Why do you as a literalist think Paul is just upholding "cultural" law, and other literalist see it as God's law? This is the point I'm getting to that you keep talking around.